Here is one example of why I think semantics get in the way. IMO, someone could say that you had a "covert contract" when you gave your W a year and didn't tell her. But, Covert Contracts are bad? I don't see it that way.
I don't think what you gave her was a covert contract. A covert contract is when you think: "If I do X, then I expect her to do Y." Nice Guys do this all the time, and the pout and go passive-aggressive when their Y expectation is not met.
What you did was make a pronouncement: "I will not remain in a SSM." And then you set a timeline for YOUR action. This is a good thing. When I spoke to an anti-DB expert early in my sitch she said that you should be a time limit on how long you will wait for her to fully commit back to the marriage before you go file for D. Her suggestion was at least a year. That is why I had the following principle I was adhering to: "If she isn't fully committed back to the marriage by the anniverary of BD, then I will file for D."
No one expects you to put up with your current sitch forever. Even your W deep down doesn't expect that. She might be comfortable in it but logically she knows that your current arrangement is not sustainable forever. You've put up with a ton, RR. I feel for you man, and I support you in whatever you decide from this point forward.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I don't think what you gave her was a covert contract. A covert contract is when you think: "If I do X, then I expect her to do Y." Nice Guys do this all the time, and the pout and go passive-aggressive when their Y expectation is not met.
Steve, I was referring to your sitch, not mine. And only for a relevant example. "If I do X, then I expect her to do Y." is a contract. When you don't tell the other party it becomes covert.
Last edited by RR17; 01/16/1904:37 PM.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Only when you expect some action FROM YOUR SPOUSE. In our cases (one year), I guess you could argue it is covert, but isn't a covert contract because I am only expecting action from myself.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
No, it is Covert because you didn't tell the other person. What your talking about is a unilateral contract. Another word for Covert Contract is "SECRET AGREEMENT".
You make a deal, only you don't tell the other person about the deal.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
No, it is Covert because you didn't tell the other person. What your talking about is a unilateral contract. Another word for Covert Contract is "SECRET AGREEMENT".
You make a deal, only you don't tell the other person about the deal.
The important distinction in a covert contract is that it is based on the assumption that the other party will inherently know and understand the terms of the unsaid contract. So an example of that would be: "I'll clean the house and my W will be so impressed that she will want to have sex with me tonight." You feel like you don't need to say what the terms are, because she will inherently know that if you clean the house you deserve to be rewarded with sex. So then when she doesn't want to have sex you get upset, because you feel she's not meeting her end of the bargain. So you pout and mope and then explode over something completely unrelated, like she leaves a dirty towel on the floor. You let anger and resentment build over it. This is distinctly different than saying "I'm going to give it a year and then pursue D myself if nothing changes" because in this case you are not assuming that things will change, and you are not doing something as a "favor" for her expecting something in return.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but covert contracts are a huge problem with many people that find themselves here and it's important that anyone reading here grasps what they are and why they are an issue. Because when you identify it as a fault then it's actually not hard to do a 180 on it.
The important distinction in a covert contract is that it is based on the assumption that the other party will inherently know and understand the terms of the unsaid contract. So an example of that would be: "I'll clean the house and my W will be so impressed that she will want to have sex with me tonight." You feel like you don't need to say what the terms are, because she will inherently know that if you clean the house you deserve to be rewarded with sex
Exactly!
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So then when she doesn't want to have sex you get upset, because you feel she's not meeting her end of the bargain. So you pout and mope and then explode over something completely unrelated, like she leaves a dirty towel on the floor. You let anger and resentment build over it.
IMO, this is the result of said covert contract and a different issue. Although a typical result.
CONTRACT=agreement. COVERT=not openly acknowledged or displayed.
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This is distinctly different than saying "I'm going to give it a year and then pursue D myself if nothing changes" because in this case you are not assuming that things will change, and you are not doing something as a "favor" for her expecting something in return.
It's not necessary to involve a "favor". Besides, a favor is something that is done without expectation. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that "He was going to give HER a year...". I may be wrong. If for argument's sake he was to give IT a year, IT meaning the marriage or sitch, then I agree it is not a covert contract. The difference being that in the first scenario, W would be required "to perform" as part of the secret agreement.
I hope this helps someone.
Relationships are complicated. Communication is key. If you expect someone to keep their end of an agreement it is best that they know what the agreement is. Getting but hurt because they didn't keep their end of a deal, on a deal that they are unaware of is Relationship Abuse. IMO
Last edited by RR17; 01/16/1909:21 PM.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
The important distinction in a covert contract is that it is based on the assumption that the other party will inherently know and understand the terms of the unsaid contract. So an example of that would be: "I'll clean the house and my W will be so impressed that she will want to have sex with me tonight." You feel like you don't need to say what the terms are, because she will inherently know that if you clean the house you deserve to be rewarded with sex
Exactly!
Quote
So then when she doesn't want to have sex you get upset, because you feel she's not meeting her end of the bargain. So you pout and mope and then explode over something completely unrelated, like she leaves a dirty towel on the floor. You let anger and resentment build over it.
IMO, this is the result of said covert contract and a different issue. Although a typical result.
CONTRACT=agreement. COVERT=not openly acknowledged or displayed.
Quote
This is distinctly different than saying "I'm going to give it a year and then pursue D myself if nothing changes" because in this case you are not assuming that things will change, and you are not doing something as a "favor" for her expecting something in return.
It's not necessary to involve a "favor". A favor is something that is done without expectation. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that "He was going to give HER a year...". I may be wrong. If for argument's sake he was to give IT a year, IT meaning the marriage or sitch, then I agree it is not a covert contract. The difference being that in the first scenario, W would be required "to perform" as part of the secret agreement.
I hope this helps someone.
Relationships are complicated. Communication is key. If you expect someone to keep their end of an agreement it is best that they know what the agreement is. Getting but hurt because they didn't keep their end of a deal, on a deal that they are unaware of is Relationship Abuse. IMO
Eh RR. The difference is still in that I am not expecting anything from her, just giving her some time to try to get her stuff together. I had my timeline for ME, and then backed off, gave her space, let her go and let her work through what she needed to work through. It is no different than if you've ever had a job and it there problems and you said "I will give it until next spring, and if it is still bad I will find another job."
The biggest difference is in whether I am trying to manipulate and control (cover contract), or if I am just sitting back, letting things unfold and then determining my OWN course of action. I was guilty of covert contracts all through our marriage leading up to BD. I do not consider my timeline on how long I would wait for her as part of that.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve, I'm now sorry that I used your sitch as the example. The point was that we all make covert contracts. If the condition was with yourself there is no need to disclose any agreement with a second party because it doesn't involve their performance.
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"I will give it until next spring, and if it is still bad I will find another job."
This is not a covert contract because there is no second party. IMO, it is a merely a personal deadline. It is only when there are 2 parties that it becomes an agreement, covert or otherwise.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Steve, I'm now sorry that I used your sitch as the example. The point was that we all make covert contracts. If the condition was with yourself there is no need to disclose any agreement with a second party because it doesn't involve their performance.
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"I will give it until next spring, and if it is still bad I will find another job."
This is not a covert contract because there is no second party. IMO, it is a merely a personal deadline. It is only when there are 2 parties that it becomes an agreement, covert or otherwise.
While that's a fair point, we'll have to agree to disagree. A CC as defined in NMMNG is what AS and I have stated. While a private timeline for how long you will wait is secret, it's not the same thing. In fact in the case of a timeline you'd actually be more likely to be accused of trying to manipulate her by giving her your dropdead date than keeping it to yourself.
That's why I was advised to not share it by the anti D expert and why I would advise others to not share it either.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
