MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology

[MrBrside]

Hello again everybody,

It’s been a few months since i first posted on here. The feedback and replies from my initial posts were most helpful, especially as during that time I just couldn’t see / figure out what the heck was happening in my life or to my ex-partner. – Many thanks to those who replied..

I do check the forum most days and have commented on a few posts, but felt it time to update on my situation, along with a few reflections. This post will probably be long winded, but I hope that it may help another LBS, and hopefully help them realise there is no quick fix - and life does go on.

Quick update on what’s happened since my initial post.

Ex is now in relationship with EA3(she denies it still, but I know for sure) - The guy from the gym. Not sure if EA2 is still on the scene, as i think she liked the attention. I first read EA3 IMessage’s in mid-December, but did spot her deleting IMessage’s while we were still an item / very early December. Assumed it was EA2, but they usually exchanged WhatsApp messages ( I figured they were using iMessage as WhatsApp shows them both online). Ex has now admitted the iMessage’s were EA3 and that her and EA3 did first meet in mid-November and swap numbers in late November / early December - but they are "just friends"
EA2 was still around till the end of Jan, but his messages were just vulgar jokes that any self-respecting person would just delete.
The detachment efforts i made based on the advice on here ended the cake eating. Up until that point i think she was unsure what she wanted. Or wanted her fun but wanted a sure thing fall back.
Same old story really - She had me for security and money, EA2 who replied within seconds / gave her the attention but was a "Player" or EA3 who was respectful and nice, but a lot of baggage ( his wife died 6 weeks prior )
My detachment kind of forced the issue and I suspect these things can push a WW one way or another.
When i initially started to detach it was noticed, and it really upset her. But it didn’t stop her still messaging these guys.
I mentioned on post 1 - my ex was often irrational. 2 months of reflection have taught me that my Ex always acts on “emotion” and very rarely “rational” when it comes to decision making.
She went out and put a deposit on a small house (not big enough for our 3 children IMO) without even discussing finances with a mortgage advisor or working out what her share of the equity in our house was. But she did it regardless without a second thought.
If her EA3 wasn’t physical at that point, I’m 100% sure it turned that was a week after I started detaching.



As per my original post, i stopped recognising my EX months before. I thought it was bad pre detachment. When it turned PA, it was a whole new level of selfish attitude.
I am gobsmacked at how often she was out of the house. She would put the youngest to bed at 8pm and then say she was off out to meet a girlie mate.
Or she would sit outside in her car on the phone. I’ve lost track of how many times she tried to cause a row, just so she could say she was going out to get away from me.
She lied about her shift times and instead of returning at 8.30, came home at 10pm.. This changed to 11.45 / midnight a few weeks after it got physical.
Every other weekend would see her "out with the girls but staying my mums (i.e. stopping at his ) " - Coming back on Sunday looking like she hadn’t slept or showered.. Ratty with the kids and falling asleep on the sofa or "going for a lie down"
Kids started to notice. Eldest has twice asked me "why does mummy always go out now".. Our 5-year-old has told her twice now that "She hates her for always being nasty to Daddy"
Thankfully this chapter came to a close last weekend. She has gone and apart from discussing the children, I want nothing to do with her ever again (I’ll get to why in a minute)…

But in terms of my reflections on this, here goes.


ROSE TINTED SPECS

I read back to my original post and I think hmm. Its sums it all; up as I say it, but I probably left out a few facts / painted a better picture of my partner – After all, I came here looking for a “fix it solution” – Why slate the lady I love, on the internet. Hence a few things I mentioned were the truth, but toned down. And this would have continued I think – Because I loved my ex-partner, whatever she had done. or was doing. Unconditional love – Or Blind
4th March 2019 – 5pm. This was wakeup – Prior to this time, even after detachment, and her putting a deposit on a house, messaging, lying, sleeping with another guy, and lying to everybody about me (character assassination) I would have still worked on us, given the chance. I would have tried to find a way to justify to my family and friends why we were going to make a go of it…
On the 4th March I got a call saying my Grandad was in critical condition following a stroke and I needed to get to the hospital. At this point, all that my Mum and Dad knew (they were on their way there) was that he was critical - and that is all they could tell me. When I told my ex-partner I needed to get to the hospital ( she would need to look after the children), she calmly told me that was fine, but I needed to be back for 8.30pm, as she had plans – 4th March was a Monday, and her new “nip out for 2 hours to see a friend night” – She kept asking what was up with my Grandad, but as I didn’t know anything ( I was trying to leave at this point ) I couldn’t tell her – Her reply was “It wouldn’t surprise me if you are just making this thing about a stroke up so I can’t go out” – Yeap… In her wayward and twisted mind, she believed I would make up my Grandad has suffered a stroke to stop her having a quickie with her new bloke. As I left, she told me to make sure I was back for 8.45 at the latest! – By 8.45pm (I was still at the hospital) she calling me (I ignored) … at 9pm she is texting and calling me to find out where I was, so she can go. I walk in at 9.10pm and she is there waiting to go – Her priority is “get out to get laid”.

So that was it… Unconditional Love, to unconditional hate in the blink of an eye. I can no longer even look her in the eye. The impact was bye bye stupid specs that blinded me for so long.

In my first post I mentioned how our relationship was happy for the most part – Because I bent over backwards to accommodate somebody who emotionally blackmailed me to get her own way – When she wanted the new car, she threatened to end our relationship unless it happened. In 2017, when I refused to agree to finance her boob job, she refused to go on the booked family holiday – She told our 6-year-old daughter that mummy and the children were no longer going to Majorca because of Daddy – I used the word irrational in my first post – It was emotional – Emotional blackmail. And my solution was to find a sensible solution to ensure she was happy, but it didn’t bankrupt us etc. – The priority was to keep her happy. The cost of that was a loss of my own self-respect. And I look back and think “what a mug”


DETACHMENT

This is the one where my views differ from the veterans slightly. My partner noticed my detachment, but I did break one rule and keep checking her phone, until the 17th February.
I always suspected it was physical. I just needed the proof, and better still – to prove when all this started. Since she is telling everybody and anybody its all my fault for being controlling, I wanted to be able to prove what I suspected.
It also gave me vital insight into how I feel things will pan out. We have 60 /40 split on the children, but she isn’t happy – she wants 90 / 10. ( i.e. I see them every other weekend ) – A court wouldn’t go for this ( I can work flexible and provide a lovely environment for them ) – but I know from the messages that her and her family are planning logging if I am ever late and logging anything and everything they can to use against me.


RESPECT

This comes up a lot on the board and I think Sandi mentions that once the wayward loses the respect, they go hunting. Respect is a word my ex-partner used a lot, after I refused to put the boob job on finance – Even though I paid outright, it really bugged her. She accused me of being a controlling bully for not signing the finance agreement at the time (along with the blackmail) – It didn’t matter I was paying outright and saying interest payments on the finance - She used to continually bring the finance up (even after the operation) and say that I never respected her enough to support her and go guarantor on the finance. If this was mentioned once, it was mentioned 10 times. It even came up in counselling. Was this projection back at me? Did she lose respect for me for refusing to go guarantor? I don’t know, but it was certainly a bug bear on her part. Looking back there were a few other things that also got mentioned ( see Self improvement ).. But all in all, I don’t know what more I could have done apart from be her doormat.


GAL

Define GAL - It would have been nice to say to her “instead of you going out 5 nights in a row, it’s my turn” –Then go out, catchup with old mates, play tennis, spend more time on my car restoration etc – That didn’t happen.
I have been out once since the last post with a friend – By choice because my Life has become my children since January – I knew from 29th March, I would see them a lot less. So my life has been about them. When I was not at work, I was with my children. And I have had a great few months. At the park, in the garden, playing Lego – anything and everything I can think of to have fun and keep them off the iPad / tv ( ex loves to par off on the iPad ).
The solicitor also advised against going out / not focusing on the children. As this could be used against me.
So it may not be GAL as in going out loads etc, but it made me and the 3 children happy – and I have 100s of nice photos to show the fun we had. Moving forward, ive got plans starting from next week – Meeting old mate, Tennis club etc – But I was happy to spend the time with my Children while I could – She was out so often I had little choice – But it suited me – Less her, more them.
But I will never forget when my 7 year old asks why mummy is always out – But she knew her Dad was always there – Which is so rewarding in itself.


SELF IMPROVEMENT

First one kind of ties in with the Rose-tinted specs. Since this started, I can see how the ex-talks (shouts actually) at the children. It disgusts me. Yes the children are loud, yes they are messy – they are children!!!! – I don’t know if it’s the stress, the moving, frustration at not being with him (EA3) more etc – or the way she always was ( and I was too blind to see it ) – But the way she shouts at them shocks me ( and upsets me ) .. I hope I never talked to them like that and just didn’t see it – I’ll never know… But I know going forward (and how I have been since January) how to talk to the childrem. Even when naughty, I sit down and I explain. My eldest keeps saying “mummy always shouts” – Well that will never be me.

Other areas are actually areas the ex-did make comments on – I work out a lot, but never do a leg day – I hate leg days.. So legs are getting it.

And clothes – She used to spent hundred a month on clothes. I ignored my wardrobe and let her go crazy – time to look good again.

And finally – Don’t make the same mistake again – I need to make sure I don’t ignore them little reg flags (messages to ex married boss when we first met etc)



LIVE LIFE !!!!!!!.....

That’s it really – I came here looking for advise on how to snap the love of my life out of a midlife crisis – I wanted my lover to see sense and wake up –
It was me who finally woke up. I have 3 beautiful children and only 1 life – I know how quickly that life can vanish ( Grandad passed a few days ago – he never recovered from the stroke ) – For all the LBS – You cant control them – and don’t let them control you – Go out and LIVE LIFE – ENJOY IT..

Regards

[AnotherStander]

Hi Help, you posted this in Curtis's thread but I'm pasting it in yours to reply to you here:

AnotherStaner,

My Situation was very similar to curtis's and i find this comment interesting...

This is definetly what my ex was saying about how i never saw how unhappy she was... It was first months, then that year (2018) , then years, then since my youngeat was born ( 7 years ago ) - so she has been unhappy for 7 years yet had 2 more children with me during that period...

From your experience, have the WAW been unhappy for "far longer than that". Or is that just the justification for their actions ?

Not trying to thread hijack, but my ex and me got on well - or i thought we did, but now the rose tinted specs i wore are gone, i see she was always happy when she got what she desired.. The rows we had occured when my rational brain tried to reason with her "i want it now mentality"... She would accuse me of being controlling ( regardless of if we could afford it / good deal / bad deal etc ) and i would usually find a way / sensible solution to get her what she wanted. That would restore the status quo until the next time - and the texts exchanged / photos show happyness, regardless of her claims after BD.

Just interesting to hear thoughts on if the WAW was unhappy for a long time, or do some people just cross then line then use the unhappyness as an excuse.

thanks

It's hard to say how long she was really unhappy, but you have to factor in the "rewriting of history" that nearly all of them do. She may have really been unhappy for a few months, but she "remembers" being unhappy for far longer. Think of it this way, have you ever seen one of those hidden messages that's a mix of blue and red, and you can't tell what it says? Then you hold a red filter up in front of your eyes, which allows you to see only the blue and now you can read it? OK so imagine every good thing in your marriage is red and every bad thing is blue. It may have been 95% red and 5% blue. Well your wife has now slipped on a pair of red goggles, ALL she can remember is the 5% of bad stuff. She literally has blocked out the 95% of good stuff. The thing is, she is not lying about this. SHE REALLY DOES ONLY REMEMBER THE BAD STUFF. That's become her reality, that the M has been really bad for a really long time. Most LBS's try to counter this by bringing out pictures of good times and reminding the WAS that they've had a lot of fun together. The more you try to convince her she was happy, the more angry she gets that you are not hearing what she is saying. She becomes convinced you "don't get it" and never will, that you don't "understand" her.

So what do you do? Accept that this is how she remembers things right now. It can and will change with time, but for now this is how it is. Allow her to feel how she feels. If she brings it up then listen and validate. That doesn't mean you AGREE with her, you're just acknowledging that her feelings are real to her.

It is not uncommon for a WAS to eventually come out of the fog and actually explain that they don't understand what happened, they don't know why they could only remember the bad and not the good. But some of them have actually described it like a cloud, a fog, or a piece of fabric that is obstructing their view.

[AnotherStander]

Just finished reading your update, wow! Sounds like your W may be a controlling, manipulative narcissist. Sometimes it's hard to tell but some of the stories like the one surrounding the boob job certainly point to that. Often the victim of a narcissist blames themselves, because narcissists are masters of laying on the guilt trips. It's not until they get away from the narcissist and "deprogram" themselves that they start seeing their relationship in a different light. Glad to hear you are feeling better about yourself!

[MrBrside]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to post the blue and red summary. Great explanation and a bang on the money. It funny really how they see things. Good example is the photobooks I do. Every year I would create a photo book of all the family photos from the past 12 months. 100 pages of probably 200 – 250 nice family pictures. I always did 2copies – one for my mum, one for her. Timing wasn’t really a factor – I just waited until PhotoBox had a good offer on 100 page books. My daughters love to get them out and look through. A few months back ( after PA with EA3 was in flow ) she sat down next to me and our youngest and started to complain about how crap that day was, and how she wasn’t happy on that photo etc .. Basically the whole of the 2017 photo book showed unhappy times on that day. It was odd.. Yet she was the one who came and sat down with me and the little one.

A few weeks back I walked into the house a few days before mother’s day with 3 books. I had done them because I needed to sort one for my mum, but as they had an offer on, figured I’d do two for me/ my girls as well . I figured just because she was leaving, why should I stop making the nice books. She assumed because she saw 3, one was for her. Nope.. I had that many nice family photos of our family in 2018 ( upto the BD ) that I filled 2 books. I had also left all the pictures of her in the 2 books, as I refused to rewrite the past years history just because she suddenly became unhappy / wayward.
I didn’t even discuss them with her and sat down with my girls as they eagerly went through the books to look at the pictures capturing our fun from the past year. Later than night I walked in on her looking at the 2 books. Her eyes had filled up when she looked though them and she said how lovely they were, and but she didn’t understand why I had left the pictures of her in them. Explained that I wasn’t going to rewrite a year of our family history . With tears in her eyes she said they showed some really happy times and it was a shame we were in this place. – This is the same person who has told me she hasn’t been happy for 7 years lol..

Re the Narcissist thing. Councillor said just before session 3 that she may suffer from some cluster B disorder. My understanding is that Narcissism falls under that. I just feel like a fool for putting up with it for so long.

[SteveLW]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to post the blue and red summary. Great explanation and a bang on the money. It funny really how they see things. Good example is the photobooks I do. Every year I would create a photo book of all the family photos from the past 12 months. 100 pages of probably 200 – 250 nice family pictures. I always did 2copies – one for my mum, one for her. Timing wasn’t really a factor – I just waited until PhotoBox had a good offer on 100 page books. My daughters love to get them out and look through. A few months back ( after PA with EA3 was in flow ) she sat down next to me and our youngest and started to complain about how crap that day was, and how she wasn’t happy on that photo etc .. Basically the whole of the 2017 photo book showed unhappy times on that day. It was odd.. Yet she was the one who came and sat down with me and the little one.

A few weeks back I walked into the house a few days before mother’s day with 3 books. I had done them because I needed to sort one for my mum, but as they had an offer on, figured I’d do two for me/ my girls as well . I figured just because she was leaving, why should I stop making the nice books. She assumed because she saw 3, one was for her. Nope.. I had that many nice family photos of our family in 2018 ( upto the BD ) that I filled 2 books. I had also left all the pictures of her in the 2 books, as I refused to rewrite the past years history just because she suddenly became unhappy / wayward.
I didn’t even discuss them with her and sat down with my girls as they eagerly went through the books to look at the pictures capturing our fun from the past year. Later than night I walked in on her looking at the 2 books. Her eyes had filled up when she looked though them and she said how lovely they were, and but she didn’t understand why I had left the pictures of her in them. Explained that I wasn’t going to rewrite a year of our family history . With tears in her eyes she said they showed some really happy times and it was a shame we were in this place. – This is the same person who has told me she hasn’t been happy for 7 years lol..

Re the Narcissist thing. Councillor said just before session 3 that she may suffer from some cluster B disorder. My understanding is that Narcissism falls under that. I just feel like a fool for putting up with it for so long.

This is a good illustration for all of us. It shows just how skewed the WW's thinking is in regard to the truth. Dr. Phil routinely says that perception IS reality. And I believe that the WW has altered their perception in order to justify the reality they want. This is a perfect example of that. As the WW sees proof of past happiness, happiness she has said was non-existent, and has to reconcile that with what she has convinced herself of.

All waywards do this too. It is amazing how similar they behave, and how they all seem to follow the same script. Her tears were her trying to square the photos she was seeing to the lies she has been telling herself.

[MrBrside]

So as much as I hoped I could get on with my life and enjoy time with my Children the WW selfishness impacts on life…

As mentioned about, the ex-moved out into her new place at the end of March.

Last week I picked my children up and asked what they had been doing.

The eldest mentioned “Mr X” – “Hes mummys new friend”.

I didn’t want to get involved so asked nothing. My eldest just said “he has no hair and breaks his promises Daddy – when he was around last week he said he would play with us next time, but he wouldn’t play with us today”

So this was the second time they had met him – Considering before she left we agreed 6 months of a relationship before either of us introduced our children to new partners – That went out of the window in weeks..

Fast forward to this Tuesday..

I picked the children up from School and asked how their bank Holiday Monday was.. The Eldest replied with “Mr X was around all day and mummy and him just sat on the sofa talking. And Daddy, he slept over last nights in mummys bed”

Later that night she brought him up again ( I am purposely avoiding asking anything ) – “Daddy I hate him. He is an idiot. He never plays with us and when he is there him and mummy just sit and talk. He keeps asking me lots of questions but never listens to me”

Not mentioned this to the Ex, as she won’t listen and I planned to keep out of it..

I no longer have quantity time with my children, so my focus was quality – but frustrating to hear the children vent about their mum / Mr X

Last night came and I picked the children up from the ex’s.. Our middle child didn’t want to come with me and got really upset – I had to literally carry her to the car ( 5years old ) ( also upsetting for me to hear he say she didn’t want to come to my house )

She was fine once she left her mums and got in the car though.

I asked her while putting her to bed why she got upset. Her response “Because I see you lots, but don’t see mummy much” – I mentioned the fact she had spent all day on Monday / Monday night at her mums..

Her reply “But Mr X was there so I didn’t see mummy much as Mr X and mummy were talking lots. I don’t like him Daddy because he keeps putting his arm around mummy on the sofa”


Oh course the ex loved the fact that the middle child didn’t want to go to Daddy’s and I suspect will try to use it against me in court / custody.


As this board is full of LBS, how did they deal the WW and her attitude to the children.. There is ZERO point in having a conversation with her.. It made zero difference when we lived together.. She won’t believe the children said this stuff, as its not what she wants to hear. Its about her – Selfishness

Thoughts / advise on the best way to handle this?

Thanks

[SteveLW]

She violated the most sacred vows two people can make to one another (marital) but you're surprised she didn't keep the 6 months before introducing to kids agreement? Believe NOTHING they say means NOTHING.

Let it go. You can't control her. So why try?

[MrBrside]

Not suprised at all Steve..

I have no thoughts of controlling her. I can honestly say, if children were no in the equation i would not speak to her ever again.

It's not that simple when her actions impact on the children and they get upset over it.

[SteveLW]

I think your measuring should be the law. If she does something that violates the law then take action. If Mr. X turns out to be abusive to the kids, take action. These things are hard on kids, there is no way to avoid that. Every new BF for her or GF for you will be stressful for the kids. All you can do is be as stable and strong for your kids as you can be. Is their mom going to do things that they get upset over? Absolutely. You probably will too at some point.

Focus on what you can control.

[curtis7]

Help, thanks for stopping by to post on my sitch. Any update on yours?

You mentioned that everything for you changed for the better once your WW was gone from the home and contact was minimal. How so? Do you mean better for you with regards to detachment? I assume no improvement in your interaction with her, still limited to kid talk only?

Hang in there, keep making the most of your time quality with the kids!