Uncertain of What I Have (Thread 5)

[Bo562]

I'm wondering if she wants to rush this and get you to agree to everything because how else would she explain to the courts how she accused you of abuse and getting a RO against you or whatever, but then needing you to watch the kids while she's away for 3 months.

Unclear—please explain? Sorry in a bit of a mental fog.

- What custody agreement does she want? I think you've said it's 50-50 with the kids staying at home and the two of you switching in and out of the home (nesting)?

This is what she wants.

It sounds like you both can agree to 50-50, but you do not agree to nesting out of the house half the time. You would rather she move out and live elsewhere and then you do a 50-50 split like most of the separated/ divorced world does? If that's what you want, have you made that clear to her?

Yup. I tried drawing a hard line with her and basically asked her to leave if she wants out. She freaked and isn’t having any of it, because she wants to leave me, not the kids.

What exactly is she expecting? She’s the one who wants out.

If she yells and screams and threatens to go to court then tell her you are prepared to do that.

This is basically her right now—gets hyper-emotional, threatens me, asks if she needs a lawyer.

You say you want to stay in the house as long as possible, and that you don't want to give up time with the kids. But you WILL have to give up time with the kids, that is inevitable. And if you can't afford the house on your own then it is also inevitable that at some point you will have to leave it. With that in mind, what are your goals after S and D?

You’re right—if this goes through, I’ll have to give up time with the kids, no matter what. W wants to keep kids in the current residence because it’s a really good school system, and even OS has mentioned about how he loves where we live and doesn’t want to move (we haven’t told him anything about us yet, but he’s volunteered that).

Goals after S/D? Unless we recon / piece, try to pursue an annulment (not really interested in discussing the likelihood of that at this time), work on self, love the kids, and hopefully date / find someone new in time. I do know that I am worthy of that, in time.

The DB'ing mantra is don't help her, but don't interfere either. I think right now you are interfering by continuing to put her off with the "I need to think about it" comments. I told you before that if you want to think about it then tell her "I need to think this over, can we talk about it on Thursday evening?" or whatever date works for you. Don't just leave it open-ended. Again, you want to be decisive and confident.

Being decisive and confident has been a struggle at various times for me in life. I’m trying so hard to be confident—I struggle with pushback from being confident and maintaining that in front of others.

Well that's not a bad thing. I mean she could have opened with "you need to leave and I want 95% custody, you get the kids every other weekend". The nesting arrangement is a compromise from where she could have started. I understand it doesn't work for you, but my point is she does appear to be thinking about the kids which is something at least.

You’re right, as always. She’s not a monster, and I know that. She is trying to consider the kids, but I deep in my heart of hearts know that if she wants to consider the kids, a D doesn’t seem like the answer to her / our problems. It’s also not about what I think / feel at this point.

Hmmm, well I'm not sure I would call it good or bad. In her current mindset there's really nothing you can do to placate her. She'll find a reason to hate you for just about anything. But if you're doing it for the kids then it's OK. Just don't have any expectations that it'll change anything.

Everything I say or do just pi$$es her off at this point, pretty much.

Trying to keep the kids in mind, trying to be a better husband / father. I have no expectations that it will change anything between us—I’m trying to change and improve myself in the hope for MR 2.0, or someone else down the road.

[Bo562]

Some people need to complete their process before realizing their mistake. Let him complete his process. In the meantime, you're doing work on your own process. Yours will be more fulfilling.

The quote by Napoleon ‘never interfere with your enemy when he is making a mistake’ comes to mind here.

Obviously I’m not trying to view W as the ‘enemy’ (and I hope I never do)....but I try to keep in mind the broader point. I’ve been told by some people here that part of DB’ing is not interfering, and I need to do that in my own sitch. What I’ve also been trying to do in my own sitch is not tip my hand to W—she’s been telling me things and saying things that really make me wonder what is going on, and if she has all of her information correct. But, I’m not exactly gonna go out of my way to correct her when I think she is wrong. If she follows through on this D, then she’ll find out if she’s wrong in time, and maybe that will change her mind. Or not.

I’m trying to put my work in on myself, to fix myself for MR 2.0, or someone else down the road. I sometimes hope that maybe, just maybe, down the road she will realize that she made a huge mistake. I’m not sure where I’ll be or what I’ll be ready for in the event that that happens.

Now, stop spinning, get a glass of wine or a cup of tea, put on your favorite TV program (something good and soppy or funny and a little ridiculous) and switch off for a bit.

I need to do this. Hence, having a beer tonight and going to bed kinda early (YS is sick again this weekend, so I’ll go to bed to be present to him, and I don’t know what kind of night’s sleep he will have being sick). But I still think about GAL’ing on New Year’s Day, and how utterly fantastic it felt for me. Self-care is crucial.

/journaling

I’m still struggling on whether or not I want to get to reconciling with W. Granted, it’s a long, long way off (D hasn’t even officially started yet), but I’ve thought about her earlier this week saying that recon could be an option. Could she be playing me? It’s possible. I’m honestly just not sure if I want recon with W—at least not in her / our current states.

I had something of a moment of clarity today that I hope will help me with detachment, which is.....

Why should I get myself so worked up over someone who has basically said, on repeated occasions, that she doesn’t want to be my W?

Feb. ‘18: ILYBINILWY

Feb. ‘18: I’m not even sure I want to be married to you

Feb. ‘18: I wish I loved you enough to want to take care of you (when I threw out my back)

Oct. ‘18: When [YS] is in a better place, I think we should take a look at having a break / S

Last week: I don’t want to be your wife

It’s clear she doesn’t want to be my W. I just need to get over it, and over this MR in its current form.


Temp Check Alert?

MIL was over today, and her and W went out for an errand and to pick up dinner this evening.

W told me that before that they would pick up dinner, they would go by Target to get cat litter, but also some lanolin cream.

W then proceeded to tell me that she needs it because she is sore from where YS is feeding, and rubbed near her nipple in front of me. That it gets.....raw.

Cool. TMI. Thanks for telling me about your nipples. And why exactly should I care—not like I have access to them right now, or anything. (I know, probably means I’m nowhere near detached but come on—I don’t want to be your wife, oh my nipples are so raw. Whatever.)

[Bo562]

Hey everyone,

Phone convo with L tomorrow afternoon—suggestions on what to ask her?

Thank you in advance!

[AnotherStander]

While I know I probably won’t die from this, some moments I do pray to live out my wedding vows and wonder if I would get called home so that she could have her wish of living life without me, if she really wants it that bad enough. It sounds so so terrible, but I’ve thought about it.

If you start thinking a lot about suicide then that is a sure sign you're slipping into situational depression and should go see a doc ASAP. It happened to me, seemingly came out of nowhere several months after BD. It was the worst feeling ever, like I was a black hole inside. I got on A/D's and they were instrumental in helping me recover. I weaned off after a few months and have never slipped back into it.

I know it’s doing a number of her—she said her breast milk production is down because she is so stressed about all this. Maybe don’t D your spouse, then? If this is stressing her out so much, why why is she doing this?

Because in her mind right now, staying married to you is worse. That's what you've got to keep in mind. She's in a fog and she thinks staying married to you is the absolute worst possible option. Only time and space will help her get over that.

I'm wondering if she wants to rush this and get you to agree to everything because how else would she explain to the courts how she accused you of abuse and getting a RO against you or whatever, but then needing you to watch the kids while she's away for 3 months.

Unclear—please explain? Sorry in a bit of a mental fog.

What I mean is if she is considering accusing you of abuse as you suspect, then she will paint herself into a corner because if she does that and gets full custody of the kids then she can't very well turn around and dump them on you whenever she needs to leave town. And she knows she's going to be gone for 3 months soon and may need you and her parents to watch the kids, so it's easier on her if she can force you to accept her terms now rather than wrestle with that later.

Yup. I tried drawing a hard line with her and basically asked her to leave if she wants out. She freaked and isn’t having any of it, because she wants to leave me, not the kids.

Well the only difference between her proposal and yours is that with hers the kids stay in the house when it's her turn to have them and with yours she stays in her place when she has them. She doesn't see them any more or less. Maybe she doesn't understand that point, or maybe she thinks she can just drop in on you when you have the kids like everything is normal, who knows.

You’re right—if this goes through, I’ll have to give up time with the kids, no matter what. W wants to keep kids in the current residence because it’s a really good school system, and even OS has mentioned about how he loves where we live and doesn’t want to move (we haven’t told him anything about us yet, but he’s volunteered that).

She's going to be giving up time with them as well, not sure that has sunk in with her yet. Regarding the school system, when you get a D and you have 50-50 custody, you have to designate a "primary residence" for the kids. That will determine the schools they will attend. So if you stay in the house and the two of you agree to designate it the primary residence then they will keep going to the same school/schools.

but I deep in my heart of hearts know that if she wants to consider the kids, a D doesn’t seem like the answer to her / our problems.

Absolutely agree. But back to my earlier point, right now in her fog she is so desperate to get out of the M that D is the only "viable option". That may very well change down the road but right now she's going to be very stubborn about it.

[RVA18]

but I deep in my heart of hearts know that if she wants to consider the kids, a D doesn’t seem like the answer to her / our problems.

Absolutely agree. But back to my earlier point, right now in her fog she is so desperate to get out of the M that D is the only "viable option". That may very well change down the road but right now she's going to be very stubborn about it.

I feel the same way about my W. I don't think D is the answer to our problems but she is adamant. AS is right, your wife thinks this is only the way to get out of her current situation. My W insists there is no way I could ever make her happy again and we need to D. Maybe down the road her feelings will change but right now she doesn't see any other way out.

[Bo562]

/journaling

Took down Xmas decorations earlier today

There is a soft H/W gingerbread ornament for "First Married Christmas - 2011" that we put on the tree but never got fixed

There's a metaphor in there somewhere

[Bo562]

/journaling before bed

W was chatting me up after I put YS to bed tonight. Talking to me about a friend of hers who will be getting up-close with the Pope during the next upcoming World Youth Day, and how YS is feeling better (he was sick most of this long weekend).

Trying to keep responses friendly, validating, but minimal.

On one level, I should probably work on a friendship with her, but....I’m really not all that interesting in having her as a female friend. Been there, done that, during the early stages of our relationship.

I have and have had female friends, and I’m sure I can find more if I really want to. Was never really a problem in the past (though, to be fair, I wonder if that was the problem in my younger young-adult years—got friend-zoned a bit too much, but to be fair I did a good amount of friend-zoning too).

What I want / need / deserve is a wife. And more than that, I want to be married to a woman—not a girl.

One of the things that initially attracted me to W was that she seemed not like a lot of the other woman that I’ve come across or pursued before—a number of them had very romanticized or Disney-fied ideas of love, marriage and relationships, and I just got sick of that—I wanted someone different, and I thought W was that woman.

I’ll admit that I’ve not always been the man that she wants, needs or deserves—but I’m looking to change that, and a lot of that starts with my mental attitude (PMA, eliminating NGS tendencies where I can).

Instead of current version of W who tells me that she doesn’t want to be my wife, whatever the next steps are (MR 2.0, or someone else in time), I just know that I want to have a woman as my wife, who is proud to be my wife. I just know and believe that she is out there, and I want to be the man that she needs, wants and deserves, whoever she is, wherever she is.

[AnotherStander]

Instead of current version of W who tells me that she doesn’t want to be my wife, whatever the next steps are (MR 2.0, or someone else in time), I just know that I want to have a woman as my wife, who is proud to be my wife. I just know and believe that she is out there, and I want to be the man that she needs, wants and deserves, whoever she is, wherever she is.

First focus on Bo. Bo needs to be happy by himself. Bo needs to learn to love himself, and be comfortable with being alone in the world. He needs to learn to be alone without being lonely. If this M doesn't last, then commit to spending 6 months or a year just exploring who you are as a person. Because wife number 2 is probably not going to be substantially different than wife number 1. She will be better in some areas and worse in others. She too will have the potential to be a WAS, so you need to be well-equipped to work hard on your next M to keep her as happy as you reasonably can. Don't be too attached or codependent. Give her time and space when she needs it and care and attention when she needs that. And she might walk at some point anyway, so you need to prepare yourself for that possibility. I'm just giving you a little reality check because I think you're starting to fall in love with a fantasy woman and fantasy marriage much like WAS's do. "Chasing the white rabbit" if you will. You've done a lot of work already, keep at it! That's your path to recovery.

What I want / need / deserve is a wife.

"Want" is fine because that means you are happy whether you have a wife or not. "Need" is unhealthy, if you need a wife then you are codependent. "Deserve"? I don't really like that word in this context, because a strong relationship is the direct result of hard work and no one is entitled to have that without putting the work in.

[Bo562]

First focus on Bo. Bo needs to be happy by himself. Bo needs to learn to love himself, and be comfortable with being alone in the world. He needs to learn to be alone without being lonely. If this M doesn't last, then commit to spending 6 months or a year just exploring who you are as a person. Because wife number 2 is probably not going to be substantially different than wife number 1. She will be better in some areas and worse in others. She too will have the potential to be a WAS, so you need to be well-equipped to work hard on your next M to keep her as happy as you reasonably can. Don't be too attached or codependent. Give her time and space when she needs it and care and attention when she needs that. And she might walk at some point anyway, so you need to prepare yourself for that possibility. I'm just giving you a little reality check because I think you're starting to fall in love with a fantasy woman and fantasy marriage much like WAS's do. "Chasing the white rabbit" if you will. You've done a lot of work already, keep at it! That's your path to recovery.

You’re absolutely right.

One thing I am working on is the whole ‘be happy with self’ and ‘love self.’

I am starting to feel more comfortable with being alone—probably because I’ve been rather alone in this marriage for a while. That said, I can probably see where W is coming from—‘now you know how I feel!’

The few times where I’ve been out without her and the kids recently have been amazing, I’ve felt. I felt so free and so single. Obviously, I do miss the boys, of course.... But I’ve given thought to what could happen if / when things go through and she has the boys and I’ve by myself. I’ve thought about looking into D / S groups in my diocese through the church.

She too will have the potential to be a WAS

Don’t they all, really?

But yes I need to not get to attached or codependent, and I’m putting work into my flaws (elements of NGS, forgetfulness). And I don’t want to repeat down the road the mistakes that I’ve made—that terrifies me.

I probably do need a bit of a reality check, but I also am looking to the future and trying to find hope where I can. I’ve thought about to what extent I’ve become the WAS, and what that means for our MR.

6 months to at least a year is what I’ve thought about, too, in case things don’t work out with W. I’m still conflicted on whether or not I want recon with W.

I also know that in this current MR things will probably get much much worse before they get better—who knows where this will lead, and that’s scary, tbh.

You've done a lot of work already, keep at it! That's your path to recovery.

I know I’ve put some work in, but I don’t feel like I’ve made a whole lot of progress overall.

Where do you see signs of progress in me / my sitch? I could really use a second set of eyes.

“The only way out is through.”

[Bo562]

"Want" is fine because that means you are happy whether you have a wife or not. "Need" is unhealthy, if you need a wife then you are codependent. "Deserve"? I don't really like that word in this context, because a strong relationship is the direct result of hard work and no one is entitled to have that without putting the work in.

Fair enough.

For me, this statement was more about me stating my wants and needs. Especially what I need, in the event of MR 2.0 or someone else down the road (me thinking about what I would need in the event that happens—I’d be interested in someone who only treats me as a W—not going to settle for someone who won’t).

The ‘deserve’ angle is more PMA—I know I’m good enough and I’m make steps to be good enough and even be better, and just knowing that I’m worthy of someone / something really amazing. I know that this takes hard work from both people, and there are no guarantees (I also don’t want to make a covert contract with the universe—oh if I do this, then this—NO).

Point is, I’m done settling.