I am an only child and while I am perfectly comfortable being alone I do miss the company of a women and the feminine qualities that they possess/provide.
I also do not contact my children during my off weeks. The only time I will see them or talk to them when it is my off week is if they have a school or sports activity. The same applies to my XW as well and we only live about 4 miles apart.
Now for some and my XW does fit the mold. For some it easier to run than work on their issues and look inward. For some being a part time parent, with part time responsibilities, more freedom, no constant marital or parental pressures is worth it. Some people get bored with life, get bored with the struggle, want something new and exciting to stimulate them. They don't however want to look inside themselves to determine why that is. So they cut ties and get out.
Own your part...the 10%, 20% or whatever it may be but it sounds like it is more about him than it was you. I know in my situation it is more about my XW than it is about me and what I did or didn't do. My XW had a lot of hobbies, interests, and friends to keep her busy. Her mind always had to occupied and stimulated with the next best thing. She always had to have a project. I just never thought our MR, our D, and her starting a new life would be one of those projects.
He does miss you. He has regrets and he's wondering if he's doing the right thing EVERY SINGLE DAY. There are a ton of hurting people in this world masquerading as happy people behind smiley faces and words of affirmation on social media, in text and in email. It's just a mask they put on, but what's underneath? Only they know. You can react in two ways- you can do things that make him think "oh yes I am doing the right thing" or you can pull back and resist the desire to reply or be a "friendly neighbor" when you do reply and make him continue wondering if he's doing the right thing.
Thank you. This reminded me that my H has been wearing a mask for years so why should now be any different? I will do better with my replies. Usually I respond in kind (smiley face and thumbs up) but this week was just particularly tough. I think that once everything is divided up, my H will throw himself into his new life and there will be no looking back. I have seen him do it in the past. It is just something he is really, really good at. I, on the other hand, struggle with it. I need to take that part of me that was 100% committed to him and change it to being 100% committed to myself and to GAL.
Originally Posted by Davide
One thing that you said does worry me, that you are not comfortable being alone. This process has taught me the importance of being able to sit with myself and quiet my mind.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Aaaahhhh, but why fear that? I think that was a large part of recovery for me, was finally coming to realize that I could be happy even if I am alone. If you can be happy alone then you might WANT someone else in your life but you don't NEED them.
I did spend some time alone in my early and mid-30's and was happy but I am definitely someone who likes to be in the company of other people - in particular, a significant other. I do need to get better at it though. This weekend, I've been invited overnight to a friend's place. However, it would be me and three couples so I'm on the fence. I think I would probably have fun but spending some alone time at home is also somewhat appealing and would be good practice. Thoughts?
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I think most of us here were destined for this NO MATTER WHAT. I think this is more about something our spouses are going through then anything that we did or didn't do in the M. Think back to the earlier days of your M, if it was like mine then the things he complains about now would have been minor speed bumps then. He would have done ANYTHING to overcome obstacles to be with his love back then. Now? Not willing to lift a finger. That says more about him than you.
Yes. The things my H complained about were minor speed bumps. To me, they were things that could be easily worked on and resolved but to him, insurmountable obstacles and irrefutable proof that he had married the wrong person.
Originally Posted by Joseph9
Some people get bored with life, get bored with the struggle, want something new and exciting to stimulate them. They don't however want to look inside themselves to determine why that is. So they cut ties and get out.
My XW had a lot of hobbies, interests, and friends to keep her busy. Her mind always had to occupied and stimulated with the next best thing. She always had to have a project. I just never thought our MR, our D, and her starting a new life would be one of those projects.
Yes...this is EXACTLY my H. I also think he has ADHD. When I read up on people with ADHD in marriages, it described my dynamic with my H perfectly. Also a marriage killer if you don't realize what is going on.
Thanks everyone for reading and responding to my thread. I find it so helpful. Still feeling pretty sad a lot of the time but I think that is normal when you are grieving. However, even in my sadness, there is hope...for a better DV6 and a better life... (((HUGS)))
He does miss you. He has regrets and he's wondering if he's doing the right thing EVERY SINGLE DAY. There are a ton of hurting people in this world masquerading as happy people behind smiley faces and words of affirmation on social media, in text and in email. It's just a mask they put on, but what's underneath? Only they know. You can react in two ways- you can do things that make him think "oh yes I am doing the right thing" or you can pull back and resist the desire to reply or be a "friendly neighbor" when you do reply and make him continue wondering if he's doing the right thing.
Thank you. This reminded me that my H has been wearing a mask for years so why should now be any different? I will do better with my replies. Usually I respond in kind (smiley face and thumbs up) but this week was just particularly tough. I think that once everything is divided up, my H will throw himself into his new life and there will be no looking back. I have seen him do it in the past. It is just something he is really, really good at. I, on the other hand, struggle with it. I need to take that part of me that was 100% committed to him and change it to being 100% committed to myself and to GAL.
Originally Posted by Davide
One thing that you said does worry me, that you are not comfortable being alone. This process has taught me the importance of being able to sit with myself and quiet my mind.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Aaaahhhh, but why fear that? I think that was a large part of recovery for me, was finally coming to realize that I could be happy even if I am alone. If you can be happy alone then you might WANT someone else in your life but you don't NEED them.
I did spend some time alone in my early and mid-30's and was happy but I am definitely someone who likes to be in the company of other people - in particular, a significant other. I do need to get better at it though. This weekend, I've been invited overnight to a friend's place. However, it would be me and three couples so I'm on the fence. I think I would probably have fun but spending some alone time at home is also somewhat appealing and would be good practice. Thoughts?
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I think most of us here were destined for this NO MATTER WHAT. I think this is more about something our spouses are going through then anything that we did or didn't do in the M. Think back to the earlier days of your M, if it was like mine then the things he complains about now would have been minor speed bumps then. He would have done ANYTHING to overcome obstacles to be with his love back then. Now? Not willing to lift a finger. That says more about him than you.
Yes. The things my H complained about were minor speed bumps. To me, they were things that could be easily worked on and resolved but to him, insurmountable obstacles and irrefutable proof that he had married the wrong person.
Originally Posted by Joseph9
Some people get bored with life, get bored with the struggle, want something new and exciting to stimulate them. They don't however want to look inside themselves to determine why that is. So they cut ties and get out.
My XW had a lot of hobbies, interests, and friends to keep her busy. Her mind always had to occupied and stimulated with the next best thing. She always had to have a project. I just never thought our MR, our D, and her starting a new life would be one of those projects.
Yes...this is EXACTLY my H. I also think he has ADHD. When I read up on people with ADHD in marriages, it described my dynamic with my H perfectly. Also a marriage killer if you don't realize what is going on.
Thanks everyone for reading and responding to my thread. I find it so helpful. Still feeling pretty sad a lot of the time but I think that is normal when you are grieving. However, even in my sadness, there is hope...for a better DV6 and a better life... (((HUGS)))
This also sounds a lot like my W. She is always wondering what else is out there ,what am I missing out on . I have said that many times now that I never would have thought she would have done that to our MR. It was usually her career that she would do it with, or where we lived.
So I was just talking to a friend/colleague of mine about my sitch and had a sudden realization about my H and my efforts to make sense of everything. I was talking with her about how he never left home and that I think part of him running away is his need to do this and recreate what he probably should have done in his 20s. Anyway...I realized that it is likely even more than that.
I have always felt that my H had always felt ganged up on my his mom and I even though I tried very hard to stay out of the dynamic between the two of them and encouraged her to talk directly to him whenever possible. Anyway...her husband died suddenly when my H was 16 (he found him dead on his bdrm floor) and she never remarried or even dated after that. Being her only child, I think my H kind of assumed the role of the man in the house and his mom began to rely on him for a lot of things. So, in a sense, he was "married" to her as well as to wife #1 and me. Now it is hard enough for a guy with tons of hobbies, etc... to have one wife, let alone two. And I also recalled that when I asked him "why", he blurted out "I couldn't stand living with you and my mom any longer." Later on, he denied saying that but I think at that moment, he was exactly right. So he is FINALLY leaving home and to do it, he has to divorce himself from both of us.
Man..when I think of it that way, I think, "what a set up for me". Honestly, how could this have gone any other way when you factor in his R with his mom. And don't get me wrong, she is a wonderful woman but I remember he was significantly irritated by her for the latter half of our marriage. In hindsight, I probably should have validated his feelings a bit more than I did back then. Her constant presence irritated me at times too. But whenever it did, I just reminded myself of what a big help she is/was to us and let it go. I would remind my H as well but I don't think he let it go. I think he resented it and after awhile, his irritation with her just melded into his irritation with me and for all intent and purposes, we became the same person for him. He felt trapped by both of us. So...when I think about it this way, I kinda get what he is doing and it also explains why he can't be in the home for more than five minutes when it is just her there.
Anyway... I know that whether or not this is a big part of his leaving or not (and I firmly believe that it is), it doesn't change the reality but somehow knowing that it is not all about me makes it a bit easier to take.
I remember the early days of trying to make sense of it all. Having no control over the situation and trying to pinpoint the exact reason(s) why it all happened. Replaying this, analyzing that, I should have said this, or if I only would have done that, etc. etc. etc. Knowing what I know about my XW. All the signs were there, depression, jacked up family life, no real father figure, but I was in love. Looking back, if I knew then what I knew now it wasn't the smartest choice. I wouldn't have my girls though so for that reason alone I wouldn't change a thing.
That is an interesting theory, and from an outsiders perspective it does make sense. Maybe you could take it a step further, not only did he see his mom as a W, but perhaps he saw you as another mom. This can absolutely lead to a man feeling emasculated. I have seen it on the boards and in my own sitch. And even if the W is a fantastic mom -- to her kids and her H -- it is not what men usually want from a healthy M. In your case, it does make me wonder if this is also why he has chosen an OW with health problems and who requires care taking. It sounds like she relies on him for a lot. Maybe in his R with her, he feels important and valuable in that way. Some men are also intimated by women that are strong providers. This is of course all speculation.
Sadly, you may never know or fully understand any of it. I don't know how much it really behooves you to spend your energy trying to figure it all out. He is gone either way and focusing on him keeps you attached. It may feel better to accept that no, it is not all your fault. And yes, even if you were the perfect W, he most likely would have fled in the same way. These are mostly his issues. And as J9 says, there will come a point when you stop caring so much. I think this happens after detachment starts. The reason we emphasis so much GAL, it because it is a good means to detachment. I think you should do the overnight with your friends. I think the more you engage with friendships outside of your family, the better. It is great GAL stuff. You have to create good memories, even in a hard time.
I just went on a trip with my BFF to the mountains. We had taken a similar girls trip when I was separated from H. It was more energy to do these GAL things back then, but I am so glad I did. It allowed me to still live my life and have fun at a time that was otherwise filled with angst and negativity. Just talking about my sitch and focusing on the whys, really held me back in my progress. Sometimes we have to force ourselves away from that with actions (GAL) and trust the the emotional part (detachment) will follow. Have you gone back and read the threads by J9 and Maika? They are 2 good examples of people that came here in the beginning, followed the rules and really tried to push forward, and both had the success of healthy detachment. I personally think I would have suffered much less if I could have done a better job at that!
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
That is an interesting theory, and from an outsiders perspective it does make sense. Maybe you could take it a step further, not only did he see his mom as a W, but perhaps he saw you as another mom. This can absolutely lead to a man feeling emasculated. I have seen it on the boards and in my own sitch. And even if the W is a fantastic mom -- to her kids and her H -- it is not what men usually want from a healthy M.
I think there is a component of that as well. That is exactly the pattern that tends to develop with an ADHD spouse. Their inability to focus and their resulting forgetfulness tends to force their partner to start to become the "boss", so to speak. I know for sure it happened in our MR. If I wanted my H to do anything, I always had to ask and I would also have to remind him. It was a no-win situation...either I did everything myself and burned out OR I asked him to do something and he either resented me for asking because it wasn't on his priority list or he said "ok". Over time, I realized that when he said ok, I would usually have to remind him once or twice if I wanted to ensure it was done. Sometimes he was fine with it and actually grateful for the reminder whereas other times it made him mad (and I think emasculated him). If I didn't remind him and he forgot, he would feel badly about himself but then also project those bad feelings onto me and resent me for it anyway. I saw this time and time again in our MR and I just couldn't figure out how to change it because it seemed like no matter what I did, I was scr3wed.
Originally Posted by BluWave
In your case, it does make me wonder if this is also why he has chosen an OW with health problems and who requires care taking. It sounds like she relies on him for a lot. Maybe in his R with her, he feels important and valuable in that way.
Still don't know for sure if she is an OW or not but she does seem to rely on him for things and I do think he feels like he is important and valued. Her last partner was apparently an abusive a**hole so my H would look like a great guy next to him. I'm sure she has not been told what he has been up to for the last four years. Of course, I'm sure my H would spin it so he looked like he was escaping a terrible marriage. That's how he described his first marriage anyway.
Originally Posted by BluWave
Sadly, you may never know or fully understand any of it. I don't know how much it really behooves you to spend your energy trying to figure it all out. He is gone either way and focusing on him keeps you attached.
I know it doesn't seem like it because of what I post, but I'm spending way less energy on this than I did in the beginning. I've always been an analyzer...probably why I ended up in the profession that I am in. Thinking of the dynamics that contributed to my H's departure is actually helpful for me. Knowing that it isn't all about me and my failings as a wife makes it a bit easier to accept. Like a lot of the things that led to him leaving were in place before we even met and outside of my control.
Originally Posted by Joseph9
All the signs were there, depression, jacked up family life, no real father figure, but I was in love. Looking back, if I knew then what I know now it wasn't the smartest choice. I wouldn't have my girls though so for that reason alone I wouldn't change a thing.
Yes! I could have written that. There were many warning signs with my H. I just thought that our love for each other would somehow make us immune. But I have two amazing children that I wouldn't have otherwise so no regrets.
I think there is a component of that as well. That is exactly the pattern that tends to develop with an ADHD spouse. Their inability to focus and their resulting forgetfulness tends to force their partner to start to become the "boss", so to speak. I know for sure it happened in our MR. If I wanted my H to do anything, I always had to ask and I would also have to remind him. It was a no-win situation...either I did everything myself and burned out OR I asked him to do something and he either resented me for asking because it wasn't on his priority list or he said "ok". Over time, I realized that when he said ok, I would usually have to remind him once or twice if I wanted to ensure it was done. Sometimes he was fine with it and actually grateful for the reminder whereas other times it made him mad (and I think emasculated him). If I didn't remind him and he forgot, he would feel badly about himself but then also project those bad feelings onto me and resent me for it anyway. I saw this time and time again in our MR and I just couldn't figure out how to change it because it seemed like no matter what I did, I was scr3wed.
(((DejaVu6)))
I see a lot of myself / my MR in this paragraph. One of the things W wanted me to work on was my forgetfulness, and she would complain that I never listened or that my follow-through was lacking.
What’s interesting is that SHE IS THE ONE who is ADD / ADHD (she has the diagnosis and takes medication for it)—I don’t have a diagnosis, though I’m sure I probably have at least some of those tendencies. What’s flipped is that in our MR, she’s the one who wants out.
She would remind me of things, and sometimes I would be ‘ok thanks,’ or sometimes I would get angry / resentful about it. But a lot of times I would feel a bit emasculated by her, too—I’d try to work on something / fix something / do something, and she would want to take control of it, which I didn’t like. Of course, I didn’t say a whole lot (sometimes I would get demonstratively angry / frustrated with whatever it is, but what I would periodically try to tell her is that I need some time / space to work on this and tinker with it)—but she also wouldn’t be interested in giving me that time and space. To be fair, that whole emasculation dynamic is something that I’ve never liked and I tolerated it for much too long, and I’m trying to reverse the dynamic and my ‘toleration’ of it as best as I can. I also don’t want that in MR 2.0, or in the event that I get with someone else down the road.
Especially over the last few months (over the last year, probably, since ILYBINILWY BD), I’ve thought I’ve become better about any sort of forgetfulness (but like a typical WAS, she says it’s not good enough). I’m rather absent-minded / clumsy / spacey—always kinda been that way, and to be fair I was like this when she dated and married me—so this shouldn’t have exactly been a shock. I mean, I still forget stuff every now and then and I do stupid things (like tonight—I forgot to rinse OS’ hair in the bath—I go to dry him off, and I notice the soap still there, so we go back and rinse it off briefly, and W has this look and voice tone of ‘what the F is wrong with you how could you not notice?’), but I’ve had to learn to embrace and cope with my focus and forgetfulness. As well, when she wants to ‘take control,’ I’ve been trying to stand up for myself more recently (‘please let me try to do this’) and if it doesn’t work out for me, then I go ask her and not be all mad / resentful about it.
My H and I would joke about his ADHD personality. I called him 86% guy. Whatever project he was doing, he would almost always finish it to about 86% and then move onto something else. Funny enough...my H has been really reliable since he moved out and I haven’t had to remind him of much. The one or two times I did, he thanked me. I bet when he buys a house, he will have no problem taking care of it too. He loathed to do anything at our home but I think when he has something that is just his and he has no one else to do it for him, he will step up. Irony at its best.
Sorry to hear about the dynamics in your MR. It is so easy to get in that kind of pattern. My H came to rely on my reminders and I was aware that he also resented me for them at times. I tried very hard not to be blaming or shaming but it often didn’t seem to matter.
If you and your W ever do try to create a MR 2.0, it is going to be important that you let her know how you feel fwithout blaming her. i.e. When you tell me ________ in that way, I feel ________. Sometimes we think we’re communicating and we really aren’t. Looking back, my H and I did not communicate well about our feelings. I think there were a lot of failed attempts at mind reading. Hopefully you and your W get a chance to do things differently.
My H had the girls overnight two days after he moved out. He sent me pictures of them with face masks on and said they were playing board games. When I went round to pick them up in the morning he had made them pancakes and bought strawberries and bananas to have with it. He was sitting on the floor in the living room braising D9s hair. He had given them both baths the night before and washed their hair. In all the years we had been together he had never made them breakfast, had not been involved in the bath routine since they were babies and i sis me even know he knew how to braid hair. He almost certainly never participated in games nights. 10 months later he is still like this ... the pancakes have gone by the wayside and the board games have given way to movie nights but overall he is attentive and present with the girls. His own 180 maybe but I think it has more to do with the fact that I am not around to carry the load. I was there, so he took advantage and I suspect a small part of him felt guilty for it. But he is not a man to take responsibility ... so the guilt (internal) manifested as resentment (external). I became a door mat (to keep the peace) and he resented me for it.
Weird how the mind works.
Anyway, sorry for hijacking. Just got me thinking is all ...
