Emerging from my fog? (pain18 DB X)

[Phoenix9]

It did not. And I'm thinking it's because my anger and vindictiveness pushed her to him.

Kind of. I mean if we were model husbands and wives, we would have never found the DB board, right? But, you didn't make her cheat. She chose that. She knew it was wrong and did it anyways.

Phoenix, cheers to you this Saturday!

I am not excusing her decision to cheat, but I do understand why. And right now, I cannot throw that in her face. I hope we will get the chance to address it someday.

Same to you, bud!

[JujuB]

[quote]. I mean if we were model husbands and wives, we would have never found the DB board, right? But, you didn't make her cheat. She chose that. She knew it was wrong and did

I agree no one makes a spouse cheat. But disagree that being a model spouse would prevent a divorce. People choose divorce and waywardness because they are not committed and they are not loyal (with the exception of real abuse and addiction). That is who they are. Often times they are seriously disordered. It just takes us getting out of the fog to realize.

Its impossible for anyone to be a model spouse anyway. Thats not realistic.

[sandi2]

She begged for help so many times. And I just felt that my job was more important. I felt that being a provider was something all husbands needed to do.

Providing for your family is a very important part of being a good H, however, all your time and energy should not go to your job. With that said, I want to point out something.....and please know that I am not picking on you. I'm just trying to help you get your life more balanced.

Look at your goals:

- Bench 185lbs. in 3 sets of 10 reps.
- Get a consistent paid gig for my photography
- Lose another 20-30 pounds.
- Become indispensable at my job.

Nobody is indispensable. If you quit today, your job would find someone to replace you. If you try to become indispensable, you become a slave to that job 24/7. I'm not saying you should goof off and not do what you were hired to do. Do your very best........and then stop working when the workday is over. Sacrificing your M and family is too high a price to pay for any job. Nobody on their deathbed has been recorded as wishing they had spent more time on the job. I hope this was just your way of wording, maybe to encourage motivation, but since you put so much attention toward your job in the past.......that goal jumped out at me.

BTW, I applaud you for the work you've done on your body.

Okay, so what about GAL? What do you do for fun? All work and no play means an imbalanced lifestyle.

[Phoenix9]

She begged for help so many times. And I just felt that my job was more important. I felt that being a provider was something all husbands needed to do.

Providing for your family is a very important part of being a good H, however, all your time and energy should not go to your job. With that said, I want to point out something.....and please know that I am not picking on you. I'm just trying to help you get your life more balanced.

Look at your goals:

- Bench 185lbs. in 3 sets of 10 reps.
- Get a consistent paid gig for my photography
- Lose another 20-30 pounds.
- Become indispensable at my job.

Nobody is indispensable. If you quit today, your job would find someone to replace you. If you try to become indispensable, you become a slave to that job 24/7. I'm not saying you should goof off and not do what you were hired to do. Do your very best........and then stop working when the workday is over. Sacrificing your M and family is too high a price to pay for any job. Nobody on their deathbed has been recorded as wishing they had spent more time on the job. I hope this was just your way of wording, maybe to encourage motivation, but since you put so much attention toward your job in the past.......that goal jumped out at me.

Sandi, I see how me stating the job goal parallels to my behaviors at my old job prior to BD. Whether I worded it one way or the other does not matter. It's a realization that I need more balance in my life and give my family the attention they deserve.

I am happy to say that I don't take my work home with me. When the workday is over, it stays in the office. I just really enjoy my job. It was one of the things that saved my life and I feel that doing a great job is my way of paying them back.

Okay, so what about GAL? What do you do for fun? All work and no play means an imbalanced lifestyle.

I've been lagging hard. My day without D4 consists of 8-5 workday, then afterward, I lift, and go to a coffee shop and read or go into the city and...read.

My GAL has been mostly reflecting on myself and addressing it, whether it's physical (gym), or mental/emotional (I read books, other people's sitches on this forum, and sometimes watch YouTube videos on improving myself.). All of the activities I mentioned are things I do alone. I am a very sociable person and get along great with people. I am just having a very hard time expanding it to my GAL.

I'm trying to branch out using Meetup to interact with other folks. I am just not putting in enough effort.

Day 175,

WW is still doing WW stuff. She told me that she the day off and booked a spa and nail appointment tomorrow. She is spending the night in the city. So she asked me whether she should take D4 with her to spend the night so that she does not have to drive home early so that I can go to work, or she comes in early the next morning in time to pick up D4 and...take her to the city. I just think she is making excuses to see OM2. She could have spent the night in the house, but for some reason (OM2)she wants to spend it in the city.

It's crap like that that hurts me and gets me angry. But I know that questioning and throwing her WW decisions in her face is a terrible idea. Especially in light of how much my anger caused this. WW has been doing WW stuff for over a year now, but she has told me that she gave me many opportunities to R, but I acted with my emotions and squashed those opportunities. Don't get me wrong, in hindsight, I am happy that we did not R, because I would not have been able to address my issues. Now that I am on the path of improvement, I can work on attracting WW back by being the man she always wanted. She is still sniffing, but she may have cooled a little since I decided to warm up a little. I'm still DBing, but I'm wondering how I can tweak my behaviors to keep her interest piqued while not outright pursuing her. I am still working on improvements for the benefit of myself. If WW comes back, great. I am seeing working on some of WW's behaviors that indicate as such. They're little, but they are showing up.

WS are confusing, aggravating folks. But at least I'm getting better at how to deal with them.

[AnotherStander]

Phoenix - My understanding about those invitations is that it is fine to go as long as you have ZERO expectations and avoid initiating any R talks. If you ultimately want to R, it stands to reason that you shouldn't turn down every invitation... just some - especially if they are last minute. The vets can correct me if I'm wrong.

You are exactly right if it's a couple that's flirting with reconciling, but in P's case his W is still in an affair so it would probably be better to avoid that type of stuff.

Look at your goals:

- Bench 185lbs. in 3 sets of 10 reps.
- Get a consistent paid gig for my photography
- Lose another 20-30 pounds.
- Become indispensable at my job.

Nobody is indispensable. If you quit today, your job would find someone to replace you. If you try to become indispensable, you become a slave to that job 24/7.

Quite right. Also goals should be measurable. The first and third ones are quite measurable. The second one is a little fuzzy but the fourth one cannot be measured at all. Maybe something more like "get a positive review, raise and bonus by the end of the year" would be more measurable and achievable.

It's also good to have milestones leading to bigger goals. For example your goal might be "lose 30 pounds", but your milestones are to lose 5 pounds a month. That way you divide it up into easier-to-accomplish bites, and maybe you attach some kind of reward to those (not food-related, LOL!)

[Phoenix9]

Phoenix - My understanding about those invitations is that it is fine to go as long as you have ZERO expectations and avoid initiating any R talks. If you ultimately want to R, it stands to reason that you shouldn't turn down every invitation... just some - especially if they are last minute. The vets can correct me if I'm wrong.

You are exactly right if it's a couple that's flirting with reconciling, but in P's case his W is still in an affair so it would probably be better to avoid that type of stuff.

WW is still engaged in the A with OM2, but again...she has dropped hints to R without saying it directly. What I have noticed, though is her sniffing and acknowledging about my positive changes constantly. I am not sure if this goes against the grain of what is preached here, but I am going to continue to try to attract her and show hints of wanting R myself. I see how much pain she is in and I see that she is not happy overall. I'm not going to rescue her, but I am going to make it known that I am the best she will ever have and she would be very foolish to let me go.

I want to find the balance between attracting her back and avoiding the cake eating. Is there such a thing?

Look at your goals:

- Bench 185lbs. in 3 sets of 10 reps.
- Get a consistent paid gig for my photography
- Lose another 20-30 pounds.
- Become indispensable at my job.

Nobody is indispensable. If you quit today, your job would find someone to replace you. If you try to become indispensable, you become a slave to that job 24/7.

Quite right. Also goals should be measurable. The first and third ones are quite measurable. The second one is a little fuzzy but the fourth one cannot be measured at all. Maybe something more like "get a positive review, raise and bonus by the end of the year" would be more measurable and achievable.

It's also good to have milestones leading to bigger goals. For example your goal might be "lose 30 pounds", but your milestones are to lose 5 pounds a month. That way you divide it up into easier-to-accomplish bites, and maybe you attach some kind of reward to those (not food-related, LOL!)

I see what you mean.

OK, modified goals:

- Get at least one paid photography gig in the next two months.
- Lose another 20-30 pounds by the end of 2019. That would amount to 1.7 - 2.5 pounds of fat per month.
- Continue to improve at my job with the goal of being promoted by the end of 2019, with the mindset of balancing my time with my D4 and WW where needed. I cannot exceed 50 hours in a workweek to make this happen.

I'm already seeing the rewards, AS. I'm looking great. I'm gaining confidence and best of all, I'm being noticed by many. That is a great achievement in itself.

[AnotherStander]

OK, modified goals:

- Get at least one paid photography gig in the next two months.
- Lose another 20-30 pounds by the end of 2019. That would amount to 1.7 - 2.5 pounds of fat per month.
- Continue to improve at my job with the goal of being promoted by the end of 2019, with the mindset of balancing my time with my D4 and WW where needed. I cannot exceed 50 hours in a workweek to make this happen.

There you go, great modications!

I'm already seeing the rewards, AS. I'm looking great. I'm gaining confidence and best of all, I'm being noticed by many. That is a great achievement in itself.

Absolutely, that's awesome stuff! It's the snowball effect, the more you improve then the more you want to continue with it

[Phoenix9]

Day 176

Warning: Explosive emotional diarrhea incoming.

I had a good, albeit lonely start to the day. Today is usually the day we all get ready as a family and I send off D4 for the week. WW took D4 to OM2 place instead and gave me “freedom”.

My workday was good. I saw AS posts and said “Yeah, I do feel awesome!”. I ended my workday and drove into the city to lift.

Here is where it starts to turn south:

I go the bathroom to change. Before I take off my T-shirt, I look at myself in the mirror and say, “That is an attractive man!” And then I took off my shirt. And I saw my body for what it really was. A 240 pound lump of some muscle with a still-protruding gut, hairy back, and a chest that looks anything but “good”.

But that’s ok! That’s why I’m working out! So that I can mold myself into an attractive MAN! I go to the weight room and crush my workout. My legs are back went through quite the workout. My T-shirt was soaked with sweat and I was gasping for air by the end of it...a kickass workout indeed.

I go into the bathroom to change back into my street clothes, and I peel off my workout shirt.

And I saw my body. And just stared at it. I stared at the definition starting to take place at my neck and shoulders. I stared at my still sagging man-boobs. I started at my stomach that hangs out and becomes pronounced when I wear a belt. I saw my hairy back and shoulders. I stared at my bald head with hair receding from my sides more everyday. I just stared at all of it, and then that voice started to speak to me:

“Are you kidding yourself? Look at you. Yeah you made progress. Good for you! Now tell me, who in their right mind would want to stoop to THAT? Look at you! And the only person that looked past your appearance is gone. YOU pushed her into the arms of a better looking, THINNER man. Do you really think you would end up spending the rest of your life with HER? The dream is gone. You’re alone again. Yeah, you’re a great friend. You’re a great father. But no one like your WW (why not call her your STBXW already? I mean, it’s a matter of time.) will come for you again. Good luck with your “dating” life. It took you 17 years to get that far. I wouldn’t be surprised if it took you another 17 unless you settled.”

And I began to spiral. And then the thoughts of WW having sex with OM2 came into my mind, with OM2 saying:

“ I bet that my GF’s H hates him for being intimate with my WW but that’s ok because she moved on to me and I am hers now. I learned from my two divorces, but the third M to her will be the one that lasts. It’s ok, because we just want him to be happy again. But that’s not my problem. He messed up. He let her go. He should not have been awful to her. Who in their right mind would treat her the way her H did? I won’t. She deserves the best. And I’m it. I sex her up good, I treat her great, I can’t believe the stupid H pushed this W away.”

More spiraling when thoughts of my father came to my mind and reminded me that I deserve this punishment and she left for someone better. I failed at being a good husband. And she is gone. Because I pushed her away. Because of the way I look. All of those thoughts had my dad’s voice behind it.

I cried all the way to an exit ramp overlooking the Columbia. I had to stop because I could not drive anymore. I needed to settle down enough to compose myself and go home.

I’m sitting at the exit ramp, looking across the river to the town where OM2 lives. I am typing this as I look at his town and just go through all of the things WW has done with him. The camping trips, the sex, the weekends of sex. Sex and romance on her birthday. All of the things I took for granted.

And all I can do now is just accept that this is the reality now.

[DejaVu6]

(((Phoenix)))

I don’t really know what to say. I know how easy it is to start to spiral this way. Trust me...we are always our own worst critics...although it sounds as if your father may have been yours. The things people do to their kids. You do not deserve this. No one does. It is not a punishment even though it feels like one. You did not get to this place by yourself.

Given your description of your day, it sounds like you may be spending a bit too much time alone. You need to get busy with other people and distract yourself from your feelings. I spent my evening playing pool with a large group of people and felt quite happy on the drive home. It helps to get out. Do you have a workout buddy or two? Friends that you can meet up with for a beer or go fishing with? When this happened to a friend of mine, she signed up for an Improv class. She actually met her second husband there. I know that you just want to curl up in a ball. Please don’t. Think of all of us who are going through the same thing. We’re with you. We know you can do this and you must. If not for yourself than for your D4. She loves you unconditionally and she deserves to have a dad who is happy and healthy. You can do it... one step at a time. (((HUGS)))

[AnotherStander]

I go the bathroom to change. Before I take off my T-shirt, I look at myself in the mirror and say, “That is an attractive man!” And then I took off my shirt. And I saw my body for what it really was. A 240 pound lump of some muscle with a still-protruding gut, hairy back, and a chest that looks anything but “good”.

Phoenix, sorry you are having a down day! But my man, we ALL have those thoughts. I'm 5'-8", 160 pounds, about 13% bodyfat, chiseled body from 5 years of weight training and another 3 years of Crossfit, and when I take off my shirt and look in the mirror you know what I see? That damned stubborn band of fat around my lower waist that just refuses to burn off. My GF sees a strong, sexy, muscular, confident man though, so THAT is what I focus on and I shove thoughts of that stupid band of fat into the back of my mind. Women are very attracted to confidence, and hey we don't walk around naked all day so look at yourself with clothes on and remind yourself that you ARE an attractive man! Also remember your goals! You are ON YOUR WAY to being a super stud with your shirt off too! So you're not there yet, don't sweat it! You've got your goals you're working towards so any current excess fat is TEMPORARY. If you want to feel better now then go and get that hair waxed off and maybe hit the tanning bed a bit. That'll give you a boost on the way to losing the rest of the weight.

“ I bet that my GF’s H hates him for being intimate with my WW but that’s ok because she moved on to me and I am hers now. I learned from my two divorces, but the third M to her will be the one that lasts. It’s ok, because we just want him to be happy again. But that’s not my problem. He messed up. He let her go. He should not have been awful to her. Who in their right mind would treat her the way her H did? I won’t. She deserves the best. And I’m it. I sex her up good, I treat her great, I can’t believe the stupid H pushed this W away.”

Most OM's are just thinking "wow I can't believe my luck, I get to bang a married woman so I get plenty of sex without worrying about having to actually put a roof over her head or take care of her kids, this no-strings-attached stuff rocks! Then when the WAS actually gets a divorce and is like "yay now we can set up house together!" then they run for the hills like their tail is on fire. You're mind is painting the rosiest picture possible for them, but reality is probably a lot more mundane.