Hello DB. Allow me to introduce myself and my situation which resembles Scott31 situation very closely.
I'm going to apologize in advance if my situation is very long-winded. I just wanted to appropriately summarize what I'm dealing with, and reach out for help or advice on how to apply proper responses to the current situation is very appreciated.
My wife and I have been married for 9 years and our 10th anniversary will be in August.
She's a wonderful girl with a very giving, considerate and thoughtful heart. Almost somewhat of a people pleaser. Since we both met 12 years ago, we have both have had some insecurities and personal goals of our own that we have struggled with. For years, especially in the last 8 months, the financial pressures, child rearing and full time jobs have gotten to her. We are currently moving torwards an in-house separation and she seems very set on her space, becoming a single parent, working on herself with an IC marriage counselor. She tells me that she hasn't decided on divorce, but some of her words and actions prove otherwise by her online search criteria, and her pushing me away, and saying certain things which I will elaborate later. First I will start off with our individual issues from past to present.
Her issues being her identity linking to her self esteem and her weight. She has struggled with this whole entire life fluctuating up and down with results and discipline in maintaining such, since she is an emotional eater. She has successfully lost a lot of weight on two occasions one for our wedding and two for her 30th birthday. We are now 38 and 37. Currently she has gained a significant amount of weight lately to the point where she's not happy with herself, her physical appearance and ability, her life and her purpose, as well as our marriage.
She has taken the necessary steps and education throughout the years to become a health coach and is practically an expert on nutrition, but fails to apply it in her own life, and around her. She is very good about writing thoughts and goals out, but hasn't followed through with any of them. She is currently a behavioral specialist in the public school sector, and has been miserable doing it for years, and has somewhat resented the fact that she's had to do it to provide financial stability for the both of us since she makes more than I do. ( I will get into that later.) She feels no fulfillment in her job any longer and has been this way for years, but has stayed with it out of practicality for financial reasons. She has had ambitions to become a children's story book writer, is currently seeking a health coach position, despite her currently being overweight. She is scheduled to do gastric bypass surgery in the next month to force her to eat properly, and to get her on track with her "new life." Even though I wasn't as supportive and encouraging as I should have been in the past, I'm trying to be very supportive of all her life choices now regardless of outcome. Even with her weight, I have always found her physically and spiritually attractive because i love her and always will, and still to this day can't explain why. There were a few moments in our lives where my father, and my friend expressed concern about her weight and her health, and I told this to her, and she took it as them calling her fat ass. Even though we butt heads with communication, perception, and different values and thinking. My problem is I don't have a filter and I'm working on that. I come from the family that is brutally honest and open a lot of discussions that most people wouldn't typically have.
My issues with my life is I do have some codependency and abandonment issues that I have recognized since I've had 4 girlfriends leave me before marrying my wife. My first relationship, I was left for another man. I have frequently spoken of all these relationships within my marriage for the last 12 years. I have always had an obsession with bettering my relationships and learning more about myself and relationships with women in general from a very young age. However once I got into my relationship with my wife 12 years ago, I became complacent and apathetic in learning more about relationships, their dynamics, and executing and demonstrating true leadership as a man and a husband emotionally, financially, etc... I'm sure over the years I let her down with being involved in her life, being considerate, and being empathetic. We have always done our own thing inside the marriage and the home, since we got married, when we were not going out on adventures, social engagements, and excursions together. Because of my hard political standpoint over the last four years, that is one of the many reasons most of our conversations have shut down. She is also always occupied and buried in reality TV, TV shows social media and games on her phone. I admit I was addicted to my phone as well always reading politics and Facebook constantly. Even though she was fine with it or so she says I have also kicked the porn habit for the first time in 25 years. I have put that down, as well as other politically related involvements since she decided to move forward with seperation. I just need to quit smoking.
I realized in hindsight that I neglected to be emotionally support of my wife, return her thoughts considerations sometimes on certain occasions such as Anniversaries and Christmas due to financial reasons, have been critical of her for the past couple of years because of her actions around the household chores. I am always cleaning up the kitchen after her. Her stuff is all over the house as well as mine. At least I admit that I have to do something about it, and I'm always trying to keep up after it. I could be quite a tyrant about it. But she's fine with the way it is she never changes it on her end. She also sees a differently as if she's doing all the work and I'm not doing any of it at times. When I step it up, ask questions and stay on top she notices and us greatful. Agaun perception changes from one day to the next. Sometimes speaking in absolute negatives, about me and my involvement in the marriage the house in the family. which is not entirely true but a matter of perception. We have always struggled with keeping things tidy for quite some years, especially now with a 1 year old and with her bearing a child and IVF in the last year or two She feels that I have been lazy at times, and I've been somewhat verbally and emotionally abusive and negative in the past torwards her I understand I have not demonstrated leadership qualities that a man should as far as always struggling with the finances and following through with the completion of my project that have gone on for years. I can understand why she thinks I am emotionally hot and cold. Because of all the struggles of life, I've allowed the perception of myself to be very continually frustrated when I don't get or see the results for myself and other people. I understand now when she says she wants to be off the emotional rollercoaster. I'm just okay with time management in the workplace and still struggle with paying attention from time to time, but I'm horrible with it managing the house because she would fill up her social schedule so many to doc's, always expect my involvement, and always attempt to making me feel bad on the few occasions that i declined a few social functions a few times a year to get things done around the home, but of course they will rewrite history in their own minds. I take responsibility for my lack of follow-through and I'm working on fixing it, and not blaming her social schedule for it. But she never makes time for chores and when she does she does for 20 minutes to an hour, and then she said she feels like she's doing all the work in the home. I have mistakenly and repeatedly said to her over the years I love you but I don't know if I can live with you. I'm now regrettably sorry I ever said those things. I struggle with similar symptoms to ADHD, memory, concentration and follow through. After years of her pushing me, I am now considering medication to see if it helps. She has also pushed me in the past to quit smoking and better myself in my careers financially, and or find my purpose of what I love doing, which I have gotten better but have also failed, due to a lack of vision, commitment, and discipline.
We have both sought individual therapy in the past for our own personal issues, but not until recently for marital issues. I was also brought up in a family that was very codependent, and although loving and well meaning, lacked vision and ficus as well as teaching it. They somewhat encouraging, but not as encouraging as they should be, and throughout the years of family structure fell apart especially with the death of my father 7 years ago. There are always nothing but problems within my rooted family, and lack of responsibility, including within myself, but am I have a better understanding of such then most of them. They have all had Independence issues and relationship issues, all my brothers as of current including myself. However the one thing I've always wanted to get handle in my life, is my frustrations on emotional swings on how I react to things and people around me. Because I come from a conflict family, I'm always used to hashing it out and dealing with conflict which is no big deal to me. My wife's family on the other hand avoid conflicts regularly. So that may explain a lot right there. My father was a good man, the very driven type, not loving by his words, but loving by his actions. But yet verbally abrasive and wasn't very emotionally supportive. I received that from my mother. He was a marine and a construction worker and was also very controlling of my mother but my mother allowed it because she loved him, and always realize that his jealousy and persistence was always for her. He barely allowed her to let her have her friends when she was in her 50s, because he felt like he lost his best friend. So I guess you could say that I come from the school of tough love but I'm also a sensitive person which explains my mood swings and frustrations, also being exacerbated from my anxieties of life. I'm learning more everyday not to play the victim, attempt to keep a positive attitude (at least in front of my wife) and take control of what I want in my life and for my life. I have gotten into a bad habit of frequently exposing my toxic negative irritate emotionally out if control side to my wife too frequently. Maybe I didn't realize it until just now that my mood swings are quite apparent where I'm extremely happy one day extremely down the next due to circumstances. However I'm not bipolar and I probably just suffer from general anxiety. I have been tested twice memory comprehension and other psychological evaluations. There is a learning impairment that is not clearly defined.
I have recognized a lot of my failures of leadership as a husband and I have tried to be humble and aware of such, but what annoys me to no end is how she has failed to take responsibility for her own unhappiness and short comings. She never names them other than her weight, but I can see them clearly. Being that I am a sensitive person, all my life my circumstances have affected my moods.
I've had a lot of moments negativity and self-serving prophecies which eventually I snap out of but I guess it was too much for her to tolerate. However when I do see a problem I try identify the issue, and solve it the best I can. But as far as perspectives about solving problems between the two of us our perceptions and realities are very different, especially now. From communication perspectives, to parenting to politics to where we both want to live after we sell our home. It changes for her by the month. 1 months is telling me she wants to sell the house and buy an RV and travel across the country, the next month she's telling me she wants to live in South Jersey, then she goes looking into Pennsylvania after I had already considered it several months ago and she wasn't for it. Now she's looking to visit Iowa. She wants to get rid of the house because she can't take the financial pressure anymore which I don't blame her. But the way I see it is the reason why we're under such Financial pressure is because of all the debt she contunues to incur. That's partially my fault for only giving her what she needs every month and not taking the financial responsibilities on my shoulders to make sure that we don't sink. I'm sure in her mind what's made matters worse is that I've changed careers a few times over the last 12 years and I generally gravitate towards construction and sometimes I'm up and sometimes I'm down as far as income. That and having a new child and all the other stressors to life has taken a toll on me as reflecting and projecting onto her. I know I have been overly critical of her when it comes to certain house duties, and I did not handle it properly because I didn't know better until now.
I actually took the initiative to read a book that she bought for herself. It gave me some excellent insight to how I was reacting to her for a long time. She stated she is been feeling this way since this last June and started to tell me about our plans for separating and needing her space since September. She feels as though she's always walking on eggshells with me.
Since then I've been very proactive and reading a lot of different materials and subscribing to different schools of thought including , as well as DB and several others. I have read DB, and DR. I'm starting to understand a lot of the concepts but still I have yet to apply them properly. I still cannot help but feel that miscommunications and different perceptions have screwed up our marriage. I wish we can both get into counseling together so we can work on those communication issues, how to respond to them and how to handle them. I realize are all teachable skills, that most married couples today don't learn. But right now it's preferable for individual counsel. She offered joint counseling back in October but I refused. Now that I am willing she isn't
I'm having trouble on with which methods still apply and when and how to correctly apply them because I'm subscribed to two different schools of thought. One being DB and Sandi's rules, and the other, the Manly Marriage Revival. Given that we all have personal circumstances I'm having a difficult time striking a balance between discipline for myself and love with handling her current mindset of separating
Here are some of the things sometimes I don't know if I'm technically pursuing and if it's having a good impact or bad one.
When someone is cordial and friendly with you, but doesn't go out of their way anymore. Its hard to judge. Every time I've said I love you she's always said I love you in return. I've reached for her hand, and she has always accommodated it. She's currently receptive to me kissing her on the cheek but not the lips. One time after the no kissing on the lips rule, she did kiss me on the lips for something nice I did for her family after Christmas. I've asked her for clear definitions of space and boundariessoo I know how to respond to her. She hasn't gotten back to me yet on that. Sometimes when I hug her its reluctant and other times it's welcoming. But I have been seeing is that the more that I pull away the more than she pulls away. But because we are both up and down every day, it's hard for me to gauge real responses.
I stopped calling her babe as of recently, which I initiated now we referring to each other as first name. I took the initiative to move into the guest room and she felt that it was kind of awkward initially. I told her that if she wanted her space that I was going to give it to her and I'm not going to sleep in the same bed with her. That because of her position, she has effecively fired me as her husband, so I am taking initiative to give her her space, and back off, but i havent been constant with it. Because when I pull away, she pulls away too. Either way, I am in the friend zone. Her actions are just as inconsistent as mine are. Since we have grown apart over the last couple years, and I have been oblivious to her needs until now, I really can't tell if me backing off is more of the same behaviors to her, or if using the LRT or the using the 180 is having detrimental affects. Divorce busting teaches letting go. But Manly Marriage revival teaches husbandly leadership of letting go, but still prioritizing your spouses needs over your own, but not suplicating or pursuing, but leading them. I am also on The Love Dare too.
Its a lot of ego vs. heart for me with these principles and Sandi's 37 rules. All this knowledge, and my situation is consuming me, and it's not healthy, but i want to maximize my effectiveness and practice while i still have time. I am familiar with the WAW. She is currently exhibiting all the symptoms.
I really need to GAL and start doing things for myself while continually learning abouy DB and how it works into my current relationship. I have been meditating and praying. I'm going to IC this weekend. I'm also looking for a few support groups.
Here's some Recon of behavior she's exhibiting on the last couple of months There are some negatives as well as some postives. It appears as though she is creating a new and ambitious life for herself without me.
Searches for divorce related articles, regardinh big changes and inspiration for new and purposeful lives after divorce.
Said reconciliation may not look the way I expect when and if she does decide.
Says she is numb, needs to find herself, needs her space, feels snubbed out with nothing left to give as a people pleaser. Is unhappy with the entire marriage and dating before such. Questions compatibility.
Looks into property and rentals all around the country.
Repeatedly cries when hugged, or turns away, reluctant. But also is sometimes receptive to hugs and touching. Has told me not to read into it on occasion. But is currently receptive to me initiating hugs, and greetings if kisses on cheek
Stated doesn't want to hurt me but does sympathise. (Guilt of decision)
Any relationship discussions of conflict makes her feel like she's walking on eggshells. All conflictual disscissions before this made her feel the same way.
Mentioned being a Single Mom about traveling across country. Wants to see new places.
Is receptive about telling me about her dreams and desires.
Does have friendly cordial conversation because she is a polite person, but does not go out of her way as of lately. Keeps texts and conversations short unless I initiate.
Is starting to feel that our new (friend zone.) Dynamic is working better for her.
Notices some of my behavioral and conversational changes as of recently.
Does like my support with her personal life decisions, and still asks me for opinions.
Says when I live in the basement, come up twice a month and have dinner with family. Other than the shared area of the kitchen.
Wants to paint or finish painting some of the house since we haven't done it since we moved in 7 years ago. I've only done two or three room so far. She is welcoming change.
I stopped sleeping next to her when she told me she's no longer romantically interested in me even though she said "it's your bed too" I took the first initiative of moving into the guest room after that. 180'd To give her a sense of what space really feels like.
Expresses concern for my life on a daily basis but not in a romantic way any more.
Says she will always love me and I will always be in her life because of our son.
Has said things to me like I hope I find the chemistry and the compatibility that I am looking for in another woman. Has stated that while we are separated she will not continue to date anyone that wants to be single for a while, and then states that I can date other people, but not bring them in the house. I told her I was committed to this marriage, and her response was that I have to work and focus on myself as well, and I might feel differently and I myself may even want to leave in the future. I told her I have moral and spiritual obligations against divorcing. That I will never divorce even though that is not within my control. At least without trying to figure out what's going on, allowing for space to heal, and making a last collaborative effort torwards therapy together.
Thank you towards anyone who will listen and advise how to proceed, and if I indeed have a WAW or a MLC?
Last edited by Cadet; 01/17/1909:27 AM. Reason: book references not allowed
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Hi Robert, I join Cadet in welcoming you to the DB community. I'm sorry you and your W are experiencing this crossroads in your MR. I see no reason why the M can't be saved, but IMHO it will take a lot of effort. When we marry a person with traits or habits that do not blend with our own, it can become a slow eating cancer to the MR if we don't find a solution. Your W has decided to make some big changes in her body and her life. She's unhappy, and she's trying to find the source of that unhappiness. It's trying to figure it out, and IDK, but her IC may be encouraging her to find herself and do whatever it takes to be happy. Let's hope it doesn't include dumping her marriage. If she is already having dreams of living as a single mom, then this in-house separation may be the first step in that direction. However, directions can change.
Each of you have personal issues that probably require a professional's assistance. You stated that the past eight months have been increasingly difficult for her. How long has she been seeing this particular IC?
Since the untidy house seems to be a point of contention, could you hire someone to come in weekly to clean? I don't mean a professional service, b/c they are expensive, but an individual who will do basic cleaning, laundry, putting things away, etc. This could be worth the expense in order to take this area of pressure and irritation off the relationship.
Okay, let's talk about some other things you have shared in your post. My H has ADD and our children inherited it, and one of our grandchildren has it very bad. I say this to let you know that as the spouse who doesn't have ADD, I know how very frustrating it can be. I try to be empathetic, but at times it really wears me down if it doesn't appear that the individual is trying to help themselves. Anyway, I encourage you to please see a doctor about adult ADD. You may need other testing to see why your moods are up & down. This is another health issue that, untreated, can cause wear & tear on a MR.
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Because of my hard political standpoint over the last four years, that is one of the many reasons most of our conversations have shut down.
Well, don't shoot me, but seems to me that this would be one of the more easier thorns to pull out. Some people hate politics......period. If you tend to bring politics into your conversations......it will drive the other person away if they don't share your enthusiasm or opinions. It's kind of like religion. If you and your spouse are not on the same page, then leave it alone. You chose to marry someone with different views or who didn't want to hear about politics every day, so just let it go. Find a friend or a group who enjoys discussing it. but don't bring into your home. If that doesn't work for you, then a MC may have to help you and your spouse learn how to live together with your differences.
If you married a woman who does not have the same values as you, then that could be a problem that needs the help of MC to resolve. You said the both of you had attended MC, so I assume it did not help. How long did you go, and did you try more than one counselor?
Once your W has her surgery, she may change more than just her weight. It happens to some women. Since your W has experienced being thinner at times, maybe it won't cause her to act like girls gone wild or anything. Hopefully, it will be very positive for her and she can pursue the career she desires. Sometimes the problems come when their self esteem has been so low and then they suddenly get a lot of positive attention on their weight loss. As you probably already know, dissatisfaction with her appearance, especially when weight is affecting one's health, ........plus dissatisfaction with her area of work.......plus not getting emotional needs met at home........can cause feelings of fight or flight. So far, she seems to be taking steps toward a flight process. As much as you may want to talk her out of it.......talk isn't very effective at this point. Trying to talk her into changing her mind, is not giving her the "space" she wants. It's not just physical space, but she wants to feel free of any pressure she's felt from you.
Just curious, which of you first suggested separate rooms? May I ask about your sex life before her weight gain, and afterwards? Has it decreased since the birth of the child?
I think you can make significant changes in yourself that could possibly give the MR a face lift.......if your W changes her mind about living as a single. More importantly, you can make positive changes that will benefit your quality of life. The first ingredient that is essential is your "willingness". You will need a plan of action. List the things about yourself you are serious about changing. Set some realistic goals and the steps you will need to take in accomplishing these goals. The key ingredient that will determine success is to adhere to the plan of action. Sounds simple enough, but it's not so easy for everyone.
Here's one of the first things we learn in DBing. There is only one person you can control. That's Robert. You are the man of the home, and your position requires leadership and other qualities we may discuss later. Obviously, your W is thinking about walking away, and that will be a big stumbling block. Unless other information is presented to indicate she has her eyes on another man, I am not going to recommend you go too extreme with LRT. For now, giving her space by not smothering her with your presence; not initiating frequent contacts throughout the day, complaining about the house and her messes; and no politics. Just back off with any type of emotional pressure from you.
You can follow the 37 rules, but for right now, don't get too extreme. For example, one of the rules is don't initiate contact throughout the day, and some folks fail to see the word "initiate" and go completely no contact at all. In some cases where there is infidelity, that's fine......but in your sitch, let's start with just not initiating unnecessary text messages. Like, don't check with her throughout the day just to see how she is.......you know, that type of thing. Don't find some silly excuse to text her.
Another rule some people go to extremes, is the one about not initiating conversations. This was really meant for LBS's who are big talkers and try to hold their spouse's attention by pulling them into long conversations. It doesn't mean you cannot speak to your spouse. And if she is trying to talk with you, then cooperate. As long as she's being polite, the return the same manners. You can give her space without being rude. You don't have to give her the cold shoulder or silent treatment. Just don't crowd her. Don't put any emotional pressure on her. And the most difficult for LBH's is don't pursue her. Don't try to manipulate her actions. Don't be telling her what she should do, or how she feels. A wife hates for the H to tell her how she feels! If you have any questions about the 37 rules, please don't hesitate to ask.
As I continue to say, my advice may change as your sitch changes or you share further information. IMHO, the "Dare" book may conflict or confuse what you read on the board. It encourages a lot of pursuing activities to win back the spouse who wants out. So, I recommend putting it on a shelf for now. I am not familiar with the other book. I have seen several people get very confused when they are reading a lot of books on relationships. Don't expect these authors to agree on which approach to use on your particular M problem. If you feel DB has the appropriate methods, then stick with those principles and leave some of those other marriage fixing books alone........at least for now.
I look forward to reading your posts.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi. I know I shouldn't do this, but I searched my wife's Google history, and have been keeping tabs on her for about a month online. Ok so here is the biggest shock of my life.
Her being a behavioral specialist, reality show addict, and overweight, low self esteem. From the data that I have gathered since August, she has viewed 100 of articles on all of these subjects including on divorce, seperation, in house seperation, she has been daily chronic looking at rv campers, living at all different campgrounds around the country for her future life, she perceives me to be bi-polar, has reached out to numerous sources concerning such, has taken emotionally abusive courses, has looked into custody rights, is addicted to shows involving mom single life in an rv, has gone through great lengths to take horoscope, tarot card readings, sexual and relationship compatibility tests, has read numerous articles on how she is no longer attracted to me, she is looking for her soulmate and the love of her life, is obsessed with Chris Soules from the bachelor, when i say obsessed, i mean googling every day all day for months to years, is always looking for an opportunity to date him, has made contact with him on twitter, facebook, and Instagram, and what's really scaring me, even more aggressively now, she is looking up his home, his family home, and all the areas, business opportunity, boarding, hotel, apartments, all around his area and his farm, his H.S. and Iowa University.. Has looked into flights and airports there, and may be considering possibly taking my son with her. She has her bariatric surgery is coming up in a month or two. Has suddenly taken an interest in country, farming, bee keeping she always enjoyed.
Now, before I freak out. I am doing my best to maintain my composure here but I am so livid, and so betrayed, that I'm not sure if I want to have anything to do with some this secretive and this crazy, and she thinks I'm the one that's crazy.
I don't want to be reactive, after this I'm not sure if I even know this person anymore.
Should I calmy confront and demand divorce? Or should I keep quiet, get a lawyer, get a custody plan in place, get the house fixed up, move into the basement as planned, get rid of the house, and leave her to her fantasy divorce of a new life? She has been in individual IC since August, and hasn't told me about her IC until October. I am still currently in the middle of finding the right IC for me.
I need some advice here from someone with this level of crazy fog experience. I want to confront just to see if she will own up to here delusion, but it looks like she may have a head start on me in the GAL, Divorce and possibly legal field. Any help is appreciated. This is why she needs her space, because she won't ever tell me these things.
Dont do anything. Yes speak with an L and know your rights. You are extremely emotionally attached to her and its causing you to obsess about her actions and activities.
First thing, stop snooping. You are going to drive yourself to a nervous breakdown. Second, start implementing DB immediately. Detach yourself from her emotionally. Although she may not be having an A she may start one.
Third, get back in the MBR. She is the one that fired you. You need to get her out of the Master bedroom because she is the WAS.
My WW makes a lot more than I do. But she moved out of the MBR.
Stop worrying about what she is doing and go GAL. Detach lovingly.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I already had the discussion of "Why am I moving into the basement and not you, when your the one that needs space?" Ive already commited to moving to the basement after going back and forth with her over logistics of the MBR being next to our sons room for child care, work schedule timing convenience, etc. My hours and pay fluctuate a lot. Believe me, I would love to tell her too bad, you move into the basement, but its my responsibility to clean it up of the mesd of my tools and stuff that has been lingering there for the last year or so. Plus it does just make more sence for me to move down there logistically.
Im not exactly fully detached here, but learning the severity and extent of all this beyond what she is telling me will serve me a purpose of better preparation. For months I dreamed of working torwards Rec. Now that I know the severity of things, I don't even want to look forward to sharing a life with this person or helping them in this moment, other than the sake of our son.. I just want to get my affairs in order after learning all this. What this person is telling and showing me is way different than what they are thinking and planing or at the least, fantasizing about, but afraid to act on and is taking gradual baby steps little by little everyday of "achieving their new life" torwards such. Everything is civil and cordial and polite on the though on the surface daily. She still does show care torwards me and us not a cold person. But definitely in the friend zone now.
Ive initiated moving into the guest room for now which has started the seperation ball actually rolling, since she was too fearful to pull the trigger and was stalling. I've asked her to stop calling me "babe" even out of habit, no more affection from her a month ago. I'm polite, just like her, but even more now, I'm going dark on all comms. I don't care if i get her back at this point, unless some honesty hits the table openly on her end. We are both broke, and both our credit is shot, which explains no divorce, no lawyers, no mediation, no forward motion on her part. She knows She us financially stuck until we sell the house. Sounds like I'm her guarantor until that happens. She wants 6 months to figure things out in limbo land. I deserve better than this, and then her, someone who would only give me partially rehearsed Woman scripts of woman code language, and keep secrets this deep. I deserve better in life than that of someone that undermines me that much for my failures.
Although I may not have a life, and GALing, taking care of myself more like I should, I'm working on it, but it's hard when i need to focus on a lot unfinished repairs around the house. Ok. Im dropping the snooping now that I fully understand the severity of this now. Im not playing the attraction game anymore. When I get enough $ im filing first once I get a game plan. I'm not turning back from this, other than a full confession, which I will probably never get, but in the meantime I will continue to be cordial.
Last edited by RobertSc; 01/24/1907:44 AM. Reason: Edit
Sandi. I know I shouldn't do this, but I searched my wife's Google history, and have been keeping tabs on her for about a month online. Ok so here is the biggest shock of my life.
Her being a behavioral specialist, reality show addict, and overweight, low self esteem. From the data that I have gathered since August, she has viewed 100 of articles on all of these subjects including on divorce, seperation, in house seperation, she has been daily chronic looking at rv campers, living at all different campgrounds around the country for her future life, she perceives me to be bi-polar, has reached out to numerous sources concerning such, has taken emotionally abusive courses, has looked into custody rights, is addicted to shows involving mom single life in an rv, has gone through great lengths to take horoscope, tarot card readings, sexual and relationship compatibility tests, has read numerous articles on how she is no longer attracted to me, she is looking for her soulmate and the love of her life, is obsessed with Chris Soules from the bachelor, when i say obsessed, i mean googling every day all day for months to years, is always looking for an opportunity to date him, has made contact with him on twitter, facebook, and Instagram, and what's really scaring me, even more aggressively now, she is looking up his home, his family home, and all the areas, business opportunity, boarding, hotel, apartments, all around his area and his farm, his H.S. and Iowa University.. Has looked into flights and airports there, and may be considering possibly taking my son with her. She has her bariatric surgery is coming up in a month or two. Has suddenly taken an interest in country, farming, bee keeping she always enjoyed.
Now, before I freak out. I am doing my best to maintain my composure here but I am so livid, and so betrayed, that I'm not sure if I want to have anything to do with some this secretive and this crazy, and she thinks I'm the one that's crazy.
I don't want to be reactive, after this I'm not sure if I even know this person anymore.
Should I calmy confront and demand divorce? Or should I keep quiet, get a lawyer, get a custody plan in place, get the house fixed up, move into the basement as planned, get rid of the house, and leave her to her fantasy divorce of a new life? She has been in individual IC since August, and hasn't told me about her IC until October. I am still currently in the middle of finding the right IC for me.
I need some advice here from someone with this level of crazy fog experience. I want to confront just to see if she will own up to here delusion, but it looks like she may have a head start on me in the GAL, Divorce and possibly legal field. Any help is appreciated. This is why she needs her space, because she won't ever tell me these things.
Some of the best advice I've ever received here is to NOT make big decisions when you are emotional. Ding is a huge decision. Calm down. Take a breathe. Step back.
2x4 time. Why are you tracking her online? To me tracking her since August is snooping, not intel gathering. You don't mention an A, either EA or PA. I think you would have found evidence of that. What I see her is a lot of fantasy. Single mom traveling around in an RV? Tracking down Chris Soules (thank for some from the bachelor or I would have no clue who he is)? That is all fantasy world stuff.
You say: "not sure if I want to have anything to do with some this secretive and this crazy"
In that context, what would she say if she knew all of your online activities? And not just now but over the years? So don't dwell on that. I do google searches on all kinds of crazy stuff. Doesn't mean I want to pursue any of them as a lifestyle.
You mention a search about not being attracted to you. Attraction a woman has for a man is deeply root in one area: RESPECT. A woman will not be attracted to a man she doesn't respect. No matter how tight his abs, or how big his biceps are. You have to take back respect. You said: "Ive already commited to moving to the basement after going back and forth with her over logistics of the MBR being next to our sons room for child care, work schedule timing convenience, etc. My hours and pay fluctuate a lot. Believe me, I would love to tell her too bad, you move into the basement, but its my responsibility to clean it up of the mesd of my tools and stuff that has been lingering there for the last year or so. Plus it does just make more sence for me to move down there logistically." Is that an attitude that commands respect? Or does it make you look more like a spineless worm? You keep talking about it in terms of "who lives in the basement". "I have to clean up my tools." WHAT? How about: "You want space, then you move out of the MBR." PERIOD. No "I will clean up the basement....etc...." THAT IS FOR HER TO FIGURE OUT.
Guess what, more than likely she would have stayed right in the MBR. She isn't in an active A right? So she can stay or go. You act like being told she is no longer attracted to you is the end of the world. Guess what, 99.9% of us that got BD heard that. And the .1% that didn't hear it, it was true none-the-less. So stop focusing on that.
Your game plan is simple:
A) Move back into the MBR. She is welcome to stay, or go herself, but move back in. She cannot respect you if you give up your BR. And she cannot be reattracted to you if she doesn't respect you.
B) GAL. Like a mad man. Be busy busy busy. Every minute you aren't at work, you are busy. It can be with your kids in the house. But when it isn't, get out of the house. Take up new interests. Find other men to spend time with. Reconnect old friendships (male only!). Be active. GAL. Do not underestimate the importance of this.
C) Continue to 180 on your bad behaviors. When you interact with her you are upbeat, pleased, present, fulfilled. No sad. Mopey. Angry. Withdrawn. But limit your interactions with her. Interact with her as little as possible.
D) DETACH. Read the detachment thread. Make sure you are doing C, but make sure that emotionally you are detached from what she says or does. Let it roll off your back like water off a duck. This is why you need to stop tracking her. LET HER GO TO GET HER BACK. Maybe you don't want her back, and that is fine. You have a right to make that decision. But you are here, in this forum. Which tells me there is a part of you that would like to save it. So stop doing what doesn't work (snooping, giving up your MBR, etc) and do what DOES work (this list).
So Robert, are you going to be a man that she can respect? Or continue to be a mouse?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
... is obsessed with Chris Soules from the bachelor, when i say obsessed, i mean googling every day all day for months to years, is always looking for an opportunity to date him, has made contact with him on twitter, facebook, and Instagram, and what's really scaring me, even more aggressively now, she is looking up his home, his family home, and all the areas, business opportunity, boarding, hotel, apartments, all around his area and his farm, his H.S. and Iowa University.. Has looked into flights and airports there, and may be considering possibly taking my son with her.
WOW!!!!! This is a first for me, I've never heard of a WAS being obsessed with a celebrity like this. She's really buying into her WAS fantasy of a better life with a knight on a white steed. Amazing. What's even more amazing is there is absolutely a 0% chance of her getting his attention other than as a crazed stalker that he wants arrested. And yet she continues to pursue that. That's really nuts.
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She has her bariatric surgery is coming up in a month or two.
So in the same way that Chris Soules would be a quick fix for her emotional issues, she thinks surgery will be a quick fix for her weight problem. NEITHER will work like she thinks. She has internal issues that a new man, no matter how attractive or popular or rich or whatever, is going to resolve. She has weight issues that surgery isn't going to resolve. She is dead-set against doing the hard work that only SHE can do. That's the bottom line. If she wants to lose weight then step 1 is to clean up her diet. She knows how, but she refuses to do the hard work. If she wants a great relationship then likewise, she needs to put the work in. She refuses to do that as well. So what do you do? Get out of her way. Give her time and space. Remove yourself from the equation. Work on yourself. Quit trying to "nice" her back, it never works.
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Should I calmy confront and demand divorce? Or should I keep quiet, get a lawyer, get a custody plan in place, get the house fixed up, move into the basement as planned, get rid of the house, and leave her to her fantasy divorce of a new life?
By all means go with the second option. As ST said we typically say to stay in the MBR, but you've got your reasons so that's fine, it's not a deal-killer.
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I want to confront just to see if she will own up to here delusion
Don't bother. To her it's not delusion, it's a "plan". You and I and the rest of the world know otherwise, but trying to talk to her about it will just be an exercise in frustration. In the meantime, quit snooping. You've learned enough, there's nothing to be gained by continuing it, it'll just make you miserable.
You're right Steve the snooping stops here and now. I didn't snoop however to keep tabs on her, just for me to get all insecure. I'd did it to get a better insight of what the hell she's experiencing and thinking, and wanted to make sure I can anticipate any wild or crazy moves especially regarding child custody. My older brother got screwed really bad to the point where he was disabled because of his divorce and separation from his ex-wife. He actually made case law in New Jersey. I've also been cheated on and left for other people in extreme circumstances in the past so that's another reason why I keep tabs. I like to make sure if I'm the one who's going to get the screw it I'm going to screw them back harder by walking away ahead of time. I know it's a victim mindset and I need to ditch it. But everybody has dignity. But it's not so easy to walk away when you both have finances, a home, massive debts. Income fluctuation, house repairs for market, and a new. One year child toddler tied to you. So I'm in new to these murky waters, and it's pretty damn scary.
But I really didn't understand what my wife is trying to tell me and say to me, in their female language, and failed to read between the lines, and respond correctly for all these years. I do realize I need to take ownership for being selfish and self-centered at times, on certain matters in a lot of ways. I've always tried to make up for missed occaisions birthday cards or Mother's Day cards. I always try to be thoughtful, but not as thoughtful and preemptively planning as she has always been in the past. Money is just been really tight lately over the last two or three years. It appears I am to blame because of the lower fluctuating income, and lack of leadership. But she has no problem taking out 4 personal loans to consolidate most of our debts, and racks the credit cards back up again on meaningless things. I at least try to cut stuff to make the mortgage. She always criticize me for the smoking and the $ but yet she has no problem racking up a whole bunch of credit debt buying stupid stuff she doesn't need either.
I have taken her for granted in a sence, but it's not entirely my fault either, I'm not entirely responsible for her weight or her self esteem and happiness or sense of fulfillment in life. I have a lot of remorse and guilt over the things I did neglect though, and she knows this especially now I've realized it more and more and since she's distancing herself. I'm in the position of " too little too late why didn't you realize that years ago?" I allow my marriage to become complacent, apathetic, demanding, criticizing, and I take full accountability for that. She is right about a lot of things about me that I've become. But it's not entirely my fault either. She needs to take ownership for some things too like cleaning up after herself . I don't think she will consider her own faults at this point, She's too busy surviving and planning Her Fantasy reality and her new life every night. cheetah clean up the bedroom which of the first time I've seen her clean anything in there over a year and a half. all the sudden her dishes are done every morning instead of me doing them. As we are moving towards our in house separation February 1st all the sudden everything starting to become clean and organized around here again on her part.
I need to own up to as far as her taking the responsibility for the finances over the last nine years me being always in and out of work because of my trades, are probably not feeling fully provided for, me letting stuff go in her nagging me and me reacting to it, I guess she lost respect for me for all the ways I handled all of her pleas, and a lack of responsibility and Leadership on my part, at the same time criticized her for her flaws throughout the years. The demand for sex excetera excetera. I still think she's in MLC though.
I know I have to put my put my balls in front of me in a non-reactive non-confrontational indifferent and pleasant manner, and learn how to validate better in manner. I initially left the bedroom because I told her I didn't want to sleep next to someone that didn't have any romantic feelings for me. I wanted to let her feel that space. But I think after the last couple of years of me falling asleep on the couch on my phone, or in the basenent, she's probably used to the bed being empty. she complained over the last year or so that I only came to bed when I wanted sex in her perception. So it so probably more of the same behavior to her now that the bed is empty. Now I'm in a situation where I flip flopped so many times, shee'll probably see me as in incongruant, or trying to get s reaction out of her if I move back into the bedroom, but I really don't care. I'm in this mess because I let a lot of stuff around the house go for years. And me being in construction sometimes I come up short on money. but when I make extra I give it . She makes more than I do. our biggest disagreement is on the finances and how much massive debt we are in. in she wants to get rid of the house because all the mortgage payments but I don't look at it that way I see it as we have so much loan and credit debt because of her spending. She's also convinced that I'm bipolar and emotionally abusive and honestly after reading a book or two of her that can understand her point and how i acted like it be from one minute to the next on my life circumstances. But I'm not bipolar I've been twice tested before, I just have a mild learning impairment and general anxiety, and she knows this, the test was conducted when we first got married when I lost my job. but she didn't find a conclusive to her standards and she's a Behavioral Analyst for children. That I am definitely looking to change about myself and my behavior. I'm kind of just a loud guy who can be sweet but can also bark when he doesn't get what he needs sonetimes out of frustration. Especially when it comes to keeping the kitchen clean. Up until just this week I had to get up at 2 every morning just to clean up before I went to work. Her habits would always cost me my time and now that she's doing things for herself all the sudden everything is getting clean Like her letting the kitchen go and letting the messes pile up around the house. Because it's difficult for me to function and Chaos, abd she knows this. I always need really need to order and she never maintained it now the sudden she's motivated she's finding her new self. I guess you she lost all respect me when I stop tending to my needs around the house for a while cuz of our newborn, then maybe she fell into a minor depression but I never saw it. Butt she constantly going to just sit on the couch and watch reality shows all day and still does to an extent. She lives in a fantasy world, was fantasy people in a fantasy life because I guess she's gone so numb from being around here. so I guess she's dreaming big and trying to make things happen.
I'm a bit of a reactive person I know I have to change that, and get rid of the criticisms. back in the day I used to study a lot about attraction, and dating relationships dynamic and stuff from like David DeAngelo Ross Jeffries, etc. Pretty much the seduction community. But I only took my learning experience as far as her, and I guess I forgot that women never stop [censored] testing you as a man.
Most of her furniture is in the bedroom in the bed is hers as well she paid for it so, I technically have no claim and we're going to the dividing of stuff now. most of the furniture around here she's purchased as well, or it was given to us at some point in time. Steve I know you're trying to tell me to put my balls in front of me here by taking the marriage bed back, and forcing her to move downstairs. But I have no legal claim to it, and besides I don't want to look at the wedding photos right now after what I've discovered I don't want to look at her stuff in the room either. I would almost rather move downstairs build my own little pad and do my own thing in my own way for a while. besides the basement gets really humid in the summer time it gets really sometimes moldy we have to run a dehumidifier down there and she's very sensitive allergies so I'm not going to screw her that much. We live in very small 3 bedroom house.
But I know what you're saying about taking the power back. Im going to go no contact except for child related texts and convos, and only respond friendly as she would when spoken to. just as of this week I think we both learn our rings. she always wore a ring out just to let other people know that she was still married despite what we're going through which we stuck him up when she came home cuz her hands swelled or so she says. She temp checked me the other night when I told her I was going out the weekend, brought up dating, and I fell right for the bait. I was planning on going to a meetup group but it didn't happen. I want to get out more and start networking but it's going to be hard with me either watching the kids while she's going through all these procedures and we're me working and fixing in the house on the weekend. she's a couple of steps ahead of me as far as the division of time labor time with the child chores and possessions, since I asked her to make a list and I'm still working on mine. the dividing of the possessions is really starting to sink in and hit me, that this is really happening, although on the outside I'm trying to remain encouraging positive like this is a new start for me. I'm sure I can find some freedom and certain things. I know it was going to keep telling me the same thing for my own good. Detach, GAL, Take care of business, home an health. I'm having such a swing of emotions with are times where I'm common than different and unattached and there's other moments where I am totally still attached. I'm trying to take the lead ahead if her. it almost seems like we're both on a race to the divorced finish line, I get the whole thing about dropping the rope and letting go and all that it's just going to take me awhile in a lot of practice to really feel it. Especially when you live in the same home with the person if you see them everyday. We still are very cordial and friendly with one another. God help me through this help me be the best man I can be at least for my son. as far as I'm concerned my wife checked out 8 months ago, she didn't tell me about it until 5 months ago and I really didn't start feeling the effects of it until a month or two ago. she wants me to give her six months to figure out her limbo land with IC. I should have been divorced busting and implementing it the right way 5 months ago.
It's really hard for me to remain emotionally neutral. I can put on a good act, but I'm still on the rollercoaster and we both want off. I really don't want to let her go but I know I need to and not be attached to any outcomes. applying me have some dignity that the way things are and the way things came to this I definitely don't want to be with a person like that, that gives up on a marriage based on their own personal selfish happiness, because of how good of a person they are I don't like quitters, and we both weren't raised that way. Im really scared of losing the family. And even though I don't want to, I know I have to let her go out of my own valuing principles. I wish I could change my perspective that this he's going to become a pissing match, between who can divide what first who can do what better first and you can finish at the divorce line first. I won't take second place in my marriage to some reality show superstar.
Last edited by RobertSc; 01/24/1906:12 PM. Reason: J
I guess women really do actually do all this [censored] just to see if their man is emotionally strong enough and independent. It's a sick, psychotic kind of test and way of thinking, and coming from the ego of female psychology. I don't have to like it but I guess I have to learn from it don't I ?
