Still foggy, still going (Phoenix9 DB XI)

[Phoenix9]

R2C,

I can see how my language and my desire can be considered pursuit. I feel like my actions dictate otherwise. Is it still considered pursuit even if I express to the board about softening my stance? I have no control over what she does and talk is extremely cheap (except when it comes to losing the chance to R, that always seems to take). I am just trying to be AMOAFWL through my actions and behaviors.

I am not sure if you know of our set up, but in the best interest of D4, we split occupancy of the house three days per week. She gets the house the first three days. I get the house the second three days. One day is wide open but I don't make myself available. I am not going to kick her out. She is talking about moving out herself. I will not interfere. I will not help her make the move happen. I will not be associated at all with her transition. No begging, no assisting.

And WW and I both agreed that there is no R between us right now. It was for a very long time. WW felt like she had a chance with me back in late summer/early fall, but I have repeatedly expressed to her that I did not want her to date OM2.

(4) - I am working hard on all of those things. As evidenced, I still have my dips in my state of mind, happiness and calmness. The gap between good days and bad days is widening. The confidence, humor, depth, sincerity, interesting, and engaging are strong aspects. For seduction, I am reading The Art of Seduction book you recommended to me.

(5) - I have been practicing this A LOT. And I think it's working. I frequent a coffee shop in the mornings, and this cute girl always gives me an enthusiastic good morning when I go in. I lightly flirt with other folks when I'm out and about. No intent, just practice and honing my skills.

(6) - My lack of social GAL activities cripples me on this aspect and I do get social anxiety from time to time. That being said, the opportunities I do get to socialize I take advantage of.

Yesterday and today just scrambled me. I'm doing ok other than my heightened anxiety. Still misstepping, but getting better balance.

[Adam04]

P,

I wanted to share with you that I've gained so much weight in the last year and I sometimes can get down about it, but I really don't. I, for the most part of my life, have been 5'10 at 175 pounds very lean and toned. When I stopped smoking( which was cold turkey and no looking back), I gained an immediate 20 pounds. There were reasons why I kept the weight on and was okay with it as I gained it. My biggest I got prior to 5 months ago was 350 pounds. In the last year, I went from 260ish to 350. When I do my yearly yo-yo diets, I'd get down to 240 pounds size 40. no more beer gut. Then I'd gain it back and then some.

Okay so enough about the big weight, my point is that inward looking out, not seeing myself in the mirror, I've always seen myself as a 175 pound chiseled guy(is that crazy or what??). I've been a semi-heavy guy for years but never really let it bother me. I still had a lot of confidence until this last year. There were some times I let the weight get to me but it was around old friends who knew me as the 175 guy, but even then it was a temporary thought like oh my dudes will be making fun of me and it turns out they don't. At work, around people and many, many women I am comfortable with, the image in the mirror isn't there. I can tell you now that if I wanted to date at my weight right now at 280, I'd have zero problems if I chose to date some of ladies who know me for who I am. I've always been funny, confident, and charismatic. And I don't mean settling for the ugly.

I took a look at myself in the mirror just as you did and I was appalled. I was telling myself why don't I see myself like other people, like my W sees me. I don't want to get into a long drawn out explanation, but I was doing some self sabotaging with my weight gain because I had weak boundaries with women prior to marriage and I thought when I was married that I would break the once a cheat, always a cheat mentality by playing it safe and being unattractive with the weight gain. Seems like all that did was drive W away reading her romance novels but it didn't drive other people away who cared for who I was and not what I looked like. When you see yourself in the mirror, you're looking at yourself from someone else's eyes. They're not your own of how you are projecting outward so don't beat yourself up. This is conflicting because you're mind reading, projecting, and sabotaging. I don't know, I think its kind of vain too to try and look good for the mirror, but that's just my upbringing as a Pentacostal. Regardless, you have to be happy in the skin you're in. (don't get me wrong, I think no matter if its spiritual based or not, we all owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to be in good health, in all aspects of that - mentally, physically, and emotionally)

My issue with weight gain is that it usually is indicative of other issues other than the obvious health ones. Like in my case, I was feeling safe because I thought if I was 175 and still who I was, I'd probably be tempted to stray. Weak mind, weak body. I've realized that everything is a choice. I was living in some major fear.

You ever wring a wet towel and see how it twists up so badly? That's how enmeshed I felt with my W. There were plenty good days, but there were some bad ones too that we both felt trapped, so wound up with each other that there was no escape. Relearning to live as two separate individuals again is scary, but welcomed.

I've been coming across information about the big (S)elf , little s, Big I, little I or mind, our true self and the other self with all the attachments... What I mean inward looking out, I reference this as your true self. My true self sees the weight as a thing that fluctuates and I can choose to pay it no mind at all. Like the D, our jobs, our sitch, one thing or event that occurs in our lives no matter how big or small, those things do not define us. Much of this is like outside noise. When you look into the mirror next time, don't think of your dad or W, don't bring the past to the present. Stare into your own eyes, see yourself for who you are, resilient, strong, much, much more than just the flesh. Let me know if you do this and feel like superman. Let me know who wins next time.

It's good to hear of others feeling the way I do. I know I am not alone, and I wanted to let you know you aren't either.

[ovrrnbw]

I didn't think I was allowing her to do that. I thought that what she does is her business and to leave it be. This includes her doing OM2 stuff. What am I doing that is making her eat cake?

You have no control over what she does. You only have control of your response. You obviously know she is being intimate with another man, yet you are choosing to pursue her.

Where are your personal boundaries?

These are two of mine:
I do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me.
I will not share my woman with another man.


I guess from my point of view, she gets to go be intimate with OM while you are babysitting. Then you have to leave while she gets quality time with D. Sound like a perfect arrangement for her to me. All her needs are getting met by multiple men.



Anyway, have you purchased the book? I think the exercises are helpful. Maintain your personal boundaries with everyone.

Are you an expert in 4-6?

1) Start off by living a healthy lifestyle. Make healthy choices when eating. Drink plenty of water. Get good sleep. Exercise regularly. Take care of your body. Alcohol in moderation. Set a goal to reach, and then maintain, your ideal weight.

2) Make good grooming and hygiene a ritual. Accentuate the differences between the sexes.

3) Dress with style - fit, compliment, cohesive, unique, personal touch

4) Attitude (state of mind) – Happy (smile), Cool (Open and relaxed body language), Calm (slow), Confident (eye contact), humorous, seductive (ozz sex), Depth (mysterious, surprise ), Sincere , Interesting, Engaging

5) Awareness/Flirting ( 93% of communication is non verbal (body language) – study and enjoy what you find attractive and your body will naturally follow your thoughts. It is the ladies job to catch and hold a mans eye, several times if needed. This signals it is OK for him to approach. It is the mans job to approach the woman.

6) Social proof - Enjoy interacting with everyone, especially attractive members of the opposite sex.

I remember saying this a long time ago, but it never came to fruition. I don't think Phoenix should be leaving his house to make life easier on his W. She choose to get OM in her life, not Phoenix, so why does he have to work around her?

And maybe even do whatever you want on these nights where you are scheduled to watch your daughter while she visits OM? It's almost like you're complicit in this arrangement, and the arrangement is inherently wrong.

[Phoenix9]

Day 180,

The rest of yesterday went smoothly. I drove home, chatted briefly with WW about D4 and WW left. I had a quiet evening with D4 and we enjoyed each others company.

This morning, WW came home really early, like 30 minutes before the usual time. I was getting ready for my workday so I did not see her until I was ready to leave. When I saw her, she looked like a total mess. Hair messed up, wearing pajamas, and maybe even some crying. I kept it light, but her responses were very brief and terse. I kept up my PMA and left the house, even telling her to have a good day (she waved at me without looking at me...she mad).

I'm going to turn this around. I am going to try to. I'll still have the balls to make the necessary decisions and to show her that I am not afraid, but I am also going to show her that yes, I do still care and I still love her.

I see bits and pieces of my old W before she went wayward. I need to continue to chip away. And I need to do it lovingly. Without vindictiveness and anger.

The marathon not sprint mentality is absolutely needed here.

Adam,

Thank you for your insight and support. While objectively I can step back and tell myself that I am beating myself up and that I am a good looking dude, my mind wanders, especially when I hit a low to a place where my past comes
to haunt me. I know I am making progress. I see it. I am getting more confident by the day. I like the wet towel analogy. It took us (still is) over a year for us to actually admit to each other that we are not living as a married couple but as two individuals. We're not 100% separated yet, but we have accepted that we are.

ovr,

I do remember you telling me these things back awhile ago. I am not sure when, but I do recall that I took some of your advice and started to employ it in my life. As far as our arrangement goes, it's (1) best for our D4 and (2) what we can afford to do. I tried to move back in when WW in the house, but it clearly was not working out, as evidenced by my journaling in November and December. Resuming the three-day arrangement works for us. Well, it's worked out for us so far. What hasn't worked is my attempt of being ballsy and talking about D. In hindsight, it was a huge mistake on my part. Regardless, I dug that hole. I need to get myself out of it.

[Ready2Change]

I get it, I did the nesting thing as well. Was it my best decision? I don't know. I definitely didn't want the house, it had major repairs that needed to be done I halted all work after bomb drop. I definitely wasn't moving out until I had a written 50/50 parenting plan.

I am much more educated in DBing now.

I tried to move back in when WW in the house, but it clearly was not working out

There are many definitions of not working out.

Her getting angry is not a sign of it not working out.

I guess it all boils down to if YOU are TRULY happy with the current arrangement. Are you placating your wife?

I am just asking probing questions for you to think about, as well as giving other options to consider.

Maybe one night you just don't leave. If she ask:

W:"H, what are you doing here!???"
H:"W, I have thing I need to take care of."
W:Bla bla bla bla"
H:"Yes I understand that you feel that way"
W:bla bla bla bla..What is so important bla bla ba"
H:"Nothing you need to worry about"

[Phoenix9]

I guess it all boils down to if YOU are TRULY happy with the current arrangement. Are you placating your wife?

When the arrangement began, I was not happy. I missed her, I missed my home and my daughter. When I originally moved back there was tension and anxiety on both of our ends. Turns out, we weren't ready to be together. We still aren't. The holidays were the worst because I had nowhere else to go and therefore we were sharing the house. Her presence bothered me (like I was going to pursue her) and when she closed her door to "go to sleep early" (OM2 phone call), it made my anxiety worse.

I'm not placating her. Her emotions and moods do not affect me anymore. She was very grumpy this morning. I was cheerful. She does not like me now. I...don't care right now.

[Ready2Change]

(6) - My lack of social GAL activities cripples me on this aspect and I do get social anxiety from time to time. That being said, the opportunities I do get to socialize I take advantage of.

Did you find the book I labeled as "MEN:learn ways to attract". I think the exercises in it would help in this area.

[Ready2Change]

I'm not placating her. Her emotions and moods do not affect me anymore. She was very grumpy this morning. I was cheerful. She does not like me now. I...don't care right now.

Perfect.


Enjoy the weekend.

[Phoenix9]

(6) - My lack of social GAL activities cripples me on this aspect and I do get social anxiety from time to time. That being said, the opportunities I do get to socialize I take advantage of.

Did you find the book I labeled as "MEN:learn ways to attract". I think the exercises in it would help in this area.

I'm headed to the bookstore tomorrow to pick this up. My search for the PDF has failed .

[Phoenix9]

Good update coming tomorrow (special day).

R2C. I got the book. I’m going to start the assignment tomorrow.