I see now where you are at. Is it safe to say you are yo-yoing back up after a setback? After MC have you decided how much you are going to pull back to protect your feelings and have you figured out how open/honest you want to be with her? I'm sure you can gauge your convos to see if she is vested. Here's the deal with that for me, if I knew W was still seeing OM and lied to me, I would stop all forward progress,( stopping the games).
If you're W had a setback, depending how honest about it she was with you, I'd consider supporting and encouraging her but it's really what you got from it. Do you feel she is committed and needs the encouragement?
Don't mean to hi-jack but Ginger, when I read your posts, your words hit home. It makes me look at myself as a H, man, and father. My heart goes out to you. Sometimes I can hear words echo as if they are whispered from my W.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
thought I'd write down a few notes from MC last night:
Therapist said W is minimizing her actions when telling her story. I've been guilty of this too. We can learn from our own mistakes and from others.
Therapist said we are good at fighting and not so good at listening and hearing each other. That has to be true b/c even our priest said that last month. I really need to dig in and 180 here. And I am trying, I was trying to do that the other couple days when she was screaming at me.
Therapist point blank asked me a question and W interjected before I could respond and answered for me. That was rich.
Therapist asked me if I was comfortable a couple of times, and the way she phrased it reminded me of this Mike Tyson interview where the interviewer was clearly being a dick and Tyson lit the guy up saying "it's more uncomfortable being in here with a rat POS like you". Well I was thinking my W was the rat. I was just so disgusted listening to her garbage and my body language showed it, at least for the first half of the hour, so I cleaned up my body language.
Everything W talks about is how I hurt her, over and over. I'm tired of it. I wouldn't be tired of it if she were thinking about her part. At one point the therapist mentions how each side needs to own their part of the marriage breakdown and W acts like she agrees. I said "Hold on, that's not true! Why don't you tell her the truth, W?" I went to say how W is BS'ing herself on her part. I really was thinking about how to sabotage this MR - maybe that's not possible considering where it is - and just getting out. W just ruins my happy moods right now. I know these are emotions I need to work through, and I need to keep detaching so I can come back see things clearly and make a calm decision. So I am just keeping that in mind.
Ginger, great posts and thank you! Kids aren't anywhere on the horizon given this sitch. And you're right about speaking up for myself. What do I really have to lose? A crap relationship?
Adam, I don't feel the commitment. Nope nope nope. That's what is holding this back. So I stay back. I don't put myself out there, but I need to take steps to protect myself and enforce my boundaries. I need to not let fear control my decision. I need to drive any fear into the ground. And I'm really trying to get serious here.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Did her affair come up at all in the MC? What was said about that? Also, did you feel the MC tried not to take sides and was objectively listening to each of you?
Your sitch is still complicated in my opinion because 1. you guys have this long history now of her being abusive and you putting up with it (it's like she knows she can walk all over you and still have you right back) and 2. she is back physically, but not remorseful or "back emotionally" (she hasn't even owned up to having an affair or proved it's over).
In this M, there is no trust, no transparency, and no love. It doesn't even seem like you guys like each other. So my fear is that as time carries on like this, you are creating more hurt and damage, and ultimately you may be done and not want to fix it.
So I am concerned you guys are darned if you do, darned if you don't. I think your best bet, if you want to be with her in any real lasting way, would be to kick her to the curb now. Why? Because she is abusive, she doesn't respect you, and she refused to even look at her problems, own up to them or even want to change. I see you trying to make change and adjustments and that is great. I see your desire and motivation. I think you will grow and benefit from that.
The thing is, to fix a relationship, it takes two people. She is not willing. And she has also learned that she doesn't really need to because you will stay with her regardless. So yeah, she's gotta get out, or maybe you could leave. I am sure you will dismiss me and write me off. But I genuinely think you should change your tune here. If I were you, I would say firmly and lovingly, that I am miserable in this M, that I want a separation, that we both need to heal and grow as individuals, and that possibly in 6 months or 1 year, we could come back together and see if there is a chance. She can scream and cry, hit you over the head with pillows, but so what? What does that proove?
The thing is, Ovr, what other choice do you have? So you continue with all this drama, she acts like a royal bish, and you continue to grow to resent her. You already do. I can tell you resent her more and more as this continues. So eventually, you will get sick of this, leave her, and you won't even want to look back. Why not nip this in the bud now before it's too late?
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Marriage counseling sounds tough. On one hand it's great that you and your wife are going together but on the other hand it exposes the issues even more. If you're like me, and religious reasons play into your decision to honor your vows and keep divorce as the last option, I don't think you'll ever regret trying to make things work with your wife. Asking her to go to counseling is one of the only things you can do at this point-in-time. Still, in my case my husband came back after his affair and we lived in a situation kind of like yours until he got tempted and left again. You may end up in the same position, but you may regret a decision to divorce too quickly as well. It seems in your case like an physical separation, or legal separation, may help to clear your head and may help your wife to realize that she's at risk of losing everything. You don't need to go straight to divorce, but if she's not making progress and you're feeling bad then a more radical approach may be necessary.
Blu, I appreciate you staying involved in my sitch. The affair came up. Initially, W glossed over a lot and said she "started dating someone", therapist read my body language there and saw something, but I didn't interrupt. We got back around to it, and I made it clear that longer before W ever dropped the bomb on me that she started talking to OM. W: "We were just friends". Me: "Yea it's always 'just friends' or some guy from work, I don't buy it. It's wrong, quit lying."
W has said things like "It was bad for a long time, since before we were married". I used to let that statement go unchallenged, but recently I've started saying "Yes, and you still chose to marry me and commit to me. That's not an excuse to cheat." W doesn't know what to say to that b/c the statement about things being bad was something she and her parents came up with to make her actions seem better. I do think the MC is remaining objective. The MC did ask us why we were here, so I said "Ladies first". W was about one step below saying "I'm committed to fixing this", but it was more than I expected. Of course the MC is not aware yet of all the back and forth between me and OM. I'm frankly disgusted with myself for enabling that for so long. I guess that's why I try to help the new people here. W did try to prove it was over by showing me the texts on Snapchat. I guess that's all I get, and even then, it could be contrived. But so could a phone call. The trust is very little.
As for your separation advice, as you know I'm a bit unsure about this. The growing resentment is not good for me. I was thinking about being done with W a bunch on the night of MC. And W adds pressure to me in her own ways. W went to her IC again this week, that's good I guess. I've read your words several times and thought about it a lot. It takes time to understand things, or maybe one more read before you really understand. I think your concern is the lack of trust, respect, love and that continuing to operate this way will just damage things further. And maybe I don't understand it fully yet.
Adam, my sitch is a weird one (kinda, maybe not). Not sure how you mean yo-yoing. But yes I am, we are, she is yo-yoing at different times.
Almost done with my online work training, next week will be the start of some good GAL. Softball season is right around the corner. I'm wanting to join a basketball league too. Plus I have a good share of people that I was reconnecting with in the last 9-10 months that I can text and get together with and a few people that I've met through them. And I'm really wanting to get out and travel more, take the boat down to Florida and hit some beaches and go fishing. I wish I could make some of you guys a drink and relax sometime, I feel like that'd be a good time.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I didn't want to say one step forward, then two back because that slowly puts you going in the other direction(unless this describes it better with each attempt making it that much harder, putting more distance between you and your goals).
Yoyo... here, you're at a point, but you take steps back and then try to get back to where you previously were. Then you go back and now you don't see the traction or forward progress. Even if you do make progress its down the same road you been before, catching up to back where you were.
LIke going to MC, after going can either of you say it was really productive for either of you? IF not, then there is no forward progress right? Both of you could keep going but there has to be some sort of benefits from it or what's the point. I say that loosely because I haven't gone to any counseling. I do know my W mentioned it, but I also feel like she said it to reel me back in to see if I would be interested in her if she said she would make effort. Yeah, that's a good one. Get what I mean?
I like how you are challenging her comments. Don't let her try to get away with that. Maybe next time you beat her to the punch. instead of you saying yes this and that happened but YOU ____, you can say something like I know it wasn't perfect to begin with and I chose to _____. Except its about you and your positive choices to do the right thing. OR... what does your W mean by in the beginning it was bad. Has all of that been addressed and can it die somewhere? Did the MC address that?
I don't think your sitch is a weird one, I remember reading it in the beginning and know no one thinks its cheating. Her parents are trying to help her cover up. I know I may be missing pieces of the story though.
You want the MC to know about the back and forth between you and OM I take it?
How can you work with MC to break through to W?
Do you want MC to be on your side and find some way for W to see the error of her ways? Do you really think W will see that from another person? MC should help you two to connect and establish a bond so you two can break through to each other. ( I don't think taking sides will work, she may run or quit if she senses it coming)
I just wonder if there are better ways to the approach for you. I read somewhere and I don't want to mix this up with trying to strategize but I've seen it used in a positive way, you have to play their game. I think a highly experienced DB'er would know the pitfall, traps, and common mistakes and know what to avoid so it doesn't leave to speculation on anyone's part. What I'm saying is that when you act or say something can you predict the outcome? Can you predict how that would make her feel? Do you know what you want her to feel? Let's say your wife is "trying" to come clean in her own way before really admitting to anything. She's taking the first steps in her own way, but she sees you squirming over there and then worse you blurt out something against her. What do you think she will do after that? i'd be inclined to ball up and say nvm, this isn't worth it. I'm alrdy dealing with guilt and this is hard and he's making it worse. just saying... now if you think she is playing around and is putting in half ass effort just to say she tried, let her. don't interrupt. let the MC take over that. I think same rules apply to not make them say or feel that you are the reason it didn't work.
Be patient, be loving, use that attracting with honey stuff ppl talk about. Can you ever put the pain aside and talk to her to see what she needs or wants or are you dealing with someone who doesn't know? If so, what is the point of MC or trying for recon atm? this is not a question so that you don't go. just to think about. what are you expecting or needing to get out of it, and if you don't? Do you look at the MC or do you look at your wants/needs to make sure they are right first? It's like when people are asked why they are wanting to initiate D, people here want to make sure they are in the right mind before doing anything like that.
Do you consider this a lapse and how does DB handle lapses lovingly?
all the above is under a certain context of lovingly wanting to recon with honest and open communication, not being afraid and knowing when to take action for the betterment of the relationship and not based off emotion, no blame game, no siding or wanting to use MC to validate your own feelings. Its to build the bridge between W and you.
If you can not control your emotions of resentment, you're going to be blinded by your emotion. Some little effort of hers may not go recognized. Once you fail to do that, you will fail to see other small steps. You will fail to see her building her side of the bridge to you. Separation will not be for her, but to also help you to clear your mind of that. Maybe to really miss her and do work on yourself to put your own selfish emotions aside. I challenge you to do that now because I'd probably do anything to be in front of a MC with my W now. By that I mean anything as for changing my own self and most of it is emotional control. I WOULD NOT BE in front of MC if wife was not genuine.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Adam, thanks for commenting. I'm a little confused with everything you posted. I think W needs to admit that the affair was wrong. Who would agree to marriage if seeing other people is OK? And W doesn't think my mom/sister should be mad at her for seeing OM. That's probably the biggest two obstacles.
Lately, I'm just feeling dead. Like I need to get out and do something to be alive. Maybe that means leaving W at home to go do stuff. And I just feel like W is just so lost right now. I need some more time to clear my head and take time to enjoy life.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Adam, thanks for commenting. I'm a little confused with everything you posted. I think W needs to admit that the affair was wrong. Who would agree to marriage if seeing other people is OK? And W doesn't think my mom/sister should be mad at her for seeing OM. That's probably the biggest two obstacles.
Lately, I'm just feeling dead. Like I need to get out and do something to be alive. Maybe that means leaving W at home to go do stuff. And I just feel like W is just so lost right now. I need some more time to clear my head and take time to enjoy life.
If you were back at square one, would those be obstacles for you? Or would you live your life and let things fall where they do?
How did it progress without the first step?
Sorry if I made it confusing.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Lately, I'm just feeling dead. Like I need to get out and do something to be alive. Maybe that means leaving W at home to go do stuff. And I just feel like W is just so lost right now. I need some more time to clear my head and take time to enjoy life.
(((Ovr))) I am sorry. It sounds as if you are feeling depressed. It makes complete sense given the circumstances. I have felt this way so many times in the last 4 years. Having our S back in the M does not translate into things being better or easier. When we are newly BD'd we are in a crisis mode, desperate and grasping for straws. We try and follow the rules and take the advice just to get through each day. After times goes on, and especially if they come back, the dull ache of a new reality can set in and feel draining and depressing. Sure, she is there. But you know in your heart she is not there in the way you want her to be or in the way you would need her to be to start piecing the M. So perhaps you feel depressed and stuck.
Going out and GAL may help on a day to day basis. Sometimes it's nice to just escape and create some enjoyment. I think that's good. In terms of healing the wound, it is putting a bandaid on a very deep cut. Not sure that will solve anything in the long run. It is also okay to not always being in solve-it mode. Sometimes we need to give ourselves permission to just live, and simply be, without having to accomplish goals or get things done. That will also offer it's own clarity.
Take care of yourself, Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Not running away this time. I am just bored. Gonna get out and get busy. MC last night, WW is still lost.
We spent 30 minutes talking about a small argument last weekend where I immediately corrected WW on something. It aggravated her. So she came and fired right back at me, and I got offended by her. Both parties hurt, problem not solved, but we both let it got. The problem is that this is easily preventable and was the type of argument we used to have that would spiral out of control. So I need to 180 here. MC had great advice, but I'm not sure that WW understood it.
WW used the word "separation" in MC. I asked when we were separated. She couldn't answer without a long winded list of excuses. We argued about that. I need to work on my detachment bc my reaction was way too emotional. In this convo, W said she doesn't care about my feelings while crying and being mad. W says her IC says it's not an affair too. Ya, OK.
WW complained about my attitude a couple weeks ago when we were snowplowing for FIL. I left work about 1 pm, went straight home, took 6.5 hours to get to lot we were plowing, and then spent 24 more hours on the clock. I was dreading it the whole time, and had all my new job stress hanging over me. But W needs me to drop everything and help her and her lying parents and apparently thank them for it too. But the attitude still needs improvement, or maybe I just say no I can't help next time.
W says she wants me to be selfless and described herself that way. I pointed out that 10 minutes ago she told me she doesn't care about my feelings.
W is all over the place, she needs more time and space, and so do I.
Anyways, I'm not going to let any of this stuff keep my down. I have plenty of things to do plus some new activities I'm thinking about. Maybe some boxing and MMA classes/gyms. I think it'd be good for me to hit someone and be hit.
Goals are to 180 on attitude and behavior and work harder to make those lasting, and also to detach further.
Also, if anyone connected with Did on IG feel free to find me on his friends list. It's kinda cool.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
