Uncertain of What I Have (Thread 6)

[Twofeet]

DV,

She would probably file a DVRO claiming abuse. It happens all the time. I have heard horror stories in messy D where the H will preemptively file a DVRO on the W to beat her to the punch so to speak. There are routes to combat a potential DVRO, but I am not a L.

Bo,

It sounds like your W hasn't consulted a L because she either doesn't know what the heck she is talking about, she is attempting to manipulate you, or both. Sounds like she is also projecting her guilt. Take all the statements you posted and bring them to your L. Also maybe ask the L about the legality of recording these threats with your phone.

[DejaVu6]

A false claim of abuse? Honestly...if she is capable of something like that, I would be moving towards D asap. Not in a million years would I EVER even consider making a false allegation to get my way. IMO, that is a serious character flaw and not someone who would ever make a good partner for anyone. I really hope, for the sake of you and your kids Bo, that she is not that type of person.

[LH19]

*She brought up that she feels like I’m hiding something or holding something over her. She also gave me the chance to basically accuse her of something—I did not.

She wants to know if you know about the OM. This will put a hitch in her plan to tell everyone she started dating him after you were separated.

[AnotherStander]

She would probably file a DVRO claiming abuse. It happens all the time.

Unfortunately this is true, I know of several instances from right here on the forums. Definitely something to discuss with the L Bo.

[Bo562]

I'm confused... How can she get a court order to evict you? Does she own the home? If you are renting, is it just her name on the rental agreement? Honestly...she wants to leave on "her terms" and then wonders if you are okay? Wow! Does she think she has the upper hand because she is a woman? I am glad you have a lawyer to talk this over with because I think she is a little delusional. Her accusations are interesting. It is funny how dishonest and manipulative people always project themselves onto other people. Good luck with your meeting. Hope you get some good news. (((HUGS)))

We rent, and both of our names are on the rental agreement (my name is first, though, if it matters any). The utilities (power / electric and TV / internet) are also in my name, too—just mine, not hers.

I honestly believe that she thinks she has the upper hand because she’s a woman—she has repeatedly told me that courts will look more favorably upon the mother—which is why I need to ‘cooperate’ with her on this.

She may try to play sympathy on how much bigger I am than her physically (8 inches taller, 30-40 lbs. more).

On the advice of TF, and my L, I’ve been keeping a custody / child log of my actions / activities for my kids for the last 2-3 weeks or so. Every little thing I’ve done for them, I journal.

If she is so threatened or unsafe physically or emotionally, why am I spending so much time with the kids? Why do I do pick-ups? Why does she want me to drop them off for her a couple of days this month because she has work things? She needs me to walk YS around in the middle of the night, but if I’m so emotionally or physically unstable, she couldn’t trust me with that, could she? If I was so terrible, she also want to be seen with me in front of others, like at yesterday’s Super Bowl party with a co-worker of hers and the co-workers’ boyfriend?

She’s bananas.

I’m also glad to hear a woman’s perspective on all this, too—thank you DV (((HUGS)))

DV,

She would probably file a DVRO claiming abuse. It happens all the time. I have heard horror stories in messy D where the H will preemptively file a DVRO on the W to beat her to the punch so to speak. There are routes to combat a potential DVRO, but I am not a L.

Bo,

It sounds like your W hasn't consulted a L because she either doesn't know what the heck she is talking about, she is attempting to manipulate you, or both. Sounds like she is also projecting her guilt. Take all the statements you posted and bring them to your L. Also maybe ask the L about the legality of recording these threats with your phone.

I’ll bring up the specific possibility of a DVRO with my L. I brought it up initially when we spoke a week or two ago—L asked me if the cops have ever been called to our place (no). I’ve not been physically or sexually abusive towards her or the boys (at least I don’t think I have been). I should also ask about audio recording interactions like this, too.

I think where she may be trying to go (I get it—mind-reading) is a claim of emotional abuse. Earlier I’ve talked about how she would bring up ‘abuse’ and that I’ve been emotionally abusive towards her—by not listening to her or changing behaviors that according to her ‘hurt’ her. According to her, that’s emotionally abusive. I ran this past the L—L doesn’t necessarily buy it. L said that it sounds more like ‘being stubborn.’

It sounds like she is really misinformed, or is better-informed than she lets on and is using twisted facts to manipulate me (‘stupid like a fox’—she does work in the intelligence field and knows about covers and keeping things covert). Also, appeals to emotion to manipulate, I’m sure.

*She brought up that she feels like I’m hiding something or holding something over her. She also gave me the chance to basically accuse her of something—I did not.

She wants to know if you know about the OM. This will put a hitch in her plan to tell everyone she started dating him after you were separated.

When we chatted on Friday, she told me that she wants the bird-nesting to be temporary, because she acknowledged that I would like to remarry at some point (which is true, for down the road—also would like to look into getting this annulled if I can, but that’s a different topic). She then told me about how she isn’t sure she will find anyone else or even wants to date and BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH (and inside my eyes couldn’t roll far enough back into my head). All I’m thinking is ‘O RLY’??? I haven’t seen further evidence of OM, but I haven’t looked.

Yeah that is what happens when you effectively DB. They start to wonder why and they get all paranoid. That's why we say it's a marathon. It takes a long, long time before they start to see your changes are real and not just some kind of trick.

Glad to see some sort of validation re: DB’ing.

I do miss the woman that I used to spend time with—now we go our separate ways after we put the kids to bed, but I realize that that is giving her the space she supposedly needs. I also feel bad that I used to be so physically attracted to her, but now it’s not there. I am noticing that there are lots of really attractive women out there—there was a rather attractive woman with a great smile in front of me at Starbucks yesterday while OS was at Sunday School, though I believe she had a ring on. It’s nice to at least see that there are other women out there. I know this sounds terrible, but this is where I’m at.

[LH19]

She then told me about how she isn’t sure she will find anyone else or even wants to date and BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH (and inside my eyes couldn’t roll far enough back into my head). All I’m thinking is ‘O RLY’??? I haven’t seen further evidence of OM, but I haven’t looked.

Straight out of the WW handbook. Section VI paragraph 2

[AnotherStander]

We rent, and both of our names are on the rental agreement (my name is first, though, if it matters any). The utilities (power / electric and TV / internet) are also in my name, too—just mine, not hers.

Huh. I wonder why she's so set on the nesting arrangement if you are just renting the place.

I honestly believe that she thinks she has the upper hand because she’s a woman—she has repeatedly told me that courts will look more favorably upon the mother—which is why I need to ‘cooperate’ with her on this.

She might believe it or she might know it's BS and is just hoping that you'll believe it so she can have her way.

She then told me about how she isn’t sure she will find anyone else or even wants to date and BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH (and inside my eyes couldn’t roll far enough back into my head).

Yup, straight from the "WAS Handbook" Chapter 7 "Things To Say That Will Appease Him Even Though They Are Not True".

I am noticing that there are lots of really attractive women out there—there was a rather attractive woman with a great smile in front of me at Starbucks yesterday while OS was at Sunday School, though I believe she had a ring on. It’s nice to at least see that there are other women out there. I know this sounds terrible, but this is where I’m at.

There's a saying that goes "Behind every beautiful woman is a man fed up with her crap". I'm sure the same could be said about men as well, the point isn't that women are at fault but rather that inherently, men and women are vastly different and it is a huge challenge for them to get along in close quarters over a long period of time. Don't fall in love with the idea of wiping the slate clean so you can find the wife that you REALLY wanted, because I guarantee you, there is no easy path to the perfect relationship. No matter who the woman is the path will be filled with landmines hiding just under the surface, you're walking along all happy and content and then -boom- your leg is gone So keep up your DB'ing, see where things go with your W. If it doesn't work out then you can cross the "dating" bridge then.

[Bo562]

Huh. I wonder why she's so set on the nesting arrangement if you are just renting the place.

Mostly because of the neighborhood / schools—it’s a very good school district. Also, YS’ sitter is in the neighborhood, but we could always find another sitter if need be.

She might believe it or she might know it's BS and is just hoping that you'll believe it so she can have her way.

Wouldn’t rule out either outcome, tbh.

Could believe she is misinformed, but she could also be snowing me.

There's a saying that goes "Behind every beautiful woman is a man fed up with her crap". I'm sure the same could be said about men as well, the point isn't that women are at fault but rather that inherently, men and women are vastly different and it is a huge challenge for them to get along in close quarters over a long period of time. Don't fall in love with the idea of wiping the slate clean so you can find the wife that you REALLY wanted, because I guarantee you, there is no easy path to the perfect relationship. No matter who the woman is the path will be filled with landmines hiding just under the surface, you're walking along all happy and content and then -boom- your leg is gone So keep up your DB'ing, see where things go with your W. If it doesn't work out then you can cross the "dating" bridge then.

I get what you’re saying. I’ve heard something like the quote “doesn’t matter how hot she is, someone somewhere is sick of her $hit,” or something like that.

And I realize that it can apply to me just as much as it can apply to women, especially W. I’m sure other women got sick of me, and I’ve dropped women in the past like a bad habit.

Thing is, is I thought W was the W I really wanted—everything seemed really good, though there were some flaws and red flags.

I’ll do my best to keep DB’ing, but it is nice to hear the validation and affirmation. I just feel like DB’ing is sometimes pushing her away from me, and making it harder / more difficult for us to reconcile or get back—but it’s early.

I also know that W and I have far to go, whatever path that is—and that things could very well get much worse before they get better.

I do know that whatever happens, with W or someone else, I want to be more guarded, be more discerning, and be more careful. But I can’t say that I haven’t looked or noticed other women, though—I feel terrible that it gives me some sort of ‘hope,’ even though I’m conflicted on the possibility of reconciling with W. I also know that I deserve better than what W has given me, too.

Straight out of the WW handbook. Section VI paragraph 2

Yup, straight from the "WAS Handbook" Chapter 7 "Things To Say That Will Appease Him Even Though They Are Not True".

This is the 3rd time she’s said something like this—denied OM, doesn’t want to date blah blah blah blah.

I wonder if next time she brings this “oh I don’t know if I want to date / find someone” I should just up and call her on it—say something like “we both know that’s not true.”

[JB42]

This is the 3rd time she’s said something like this—denied OM, doesn’t want to date blah blah blah blah.

I wonder if next time she brings this “oh I don’t know if I want to date / find someone” I should just up and call her on it—say something like “we both know that’s not true.”

My WW said the same things - "Oh, you'll find someone so easily" - "I don't know what I want (regarding a new relationship)" - etc.

Less than a month after the BD, she told me she was interested in a coworker of hers (this admission is apparently atypical for the forums, but inline with my W), but later stated they are only friends. They're full-blown dating at this point.

My point is, if you feel like sh!t is shady, it probably is. If she is saying things to push you towards finding someone, it's probably done from a place of guilt.

[Bo562]

/journaling

1st appointment with new IC this afternoon. We have a standing appointment every two weeks—so be back two weeks from today.

He’s a LFMT, found him through health insurance website. I told him that I’m here to work on myself, and that I’d like to take what I do with him and use it to help with my family where I can. He’s Catholic, which is nice—I understand it’s not the be-all end-all, but I appreciate an IC who is more sympathetic to my faith and can understand certain topics that I bring up. I consider my faith to be very important to who I am, so it’s going to come through when I talk with him. At minimum, I want an IC whose basic perspective is ‘do no harm’ towards my faith beliefs. I did bring up TDR and MWD, and he said he wasn’t familiar with either, FWIW.

He is also skeptical of MC in general, though he did ask if W and I did / are doing that. I explained that W previously attached conditions to it—doesn’t want to see a Catholic or Christian one (wants a secular one), and he basically refuted W’s arguments as I presented them to him. He did bring up that in some instances courts mandate MC as part of divorce proceedings; however, for one of the parties it can be a ‘box to check’ to say that they did it, it wasn’t effective, and let’s continue with the proceedings—I expressed a similar concern myself, and my hesitancy in pursuing that at this time. Right now I just want to work on myself, and get myself right, for myself, the boys, and for whoever else happens to be in my future.

I explained the Cliffs Notes version of my sitch, and he asked me some questions about how I’m feeling, what my mental state has been like recently, etc. I also told him about the changes I’ve been working on in myself over the last year (though I know that that will be a future topic), and I’ll also later bring up some recent areas of emphasis (working on some NGS tendencies, although I like my progress on that recently).

I also told him about the threats that W has made with respect to claims of emotional abuse. I described to him what W has said about how she feels that I have exhibited ‘abuse’ towards her, and he said that emotional abuse is very, very hard to prove, and it has to be documented. He affirmed my being in touch with a L, and he agrees that my custody log of what I do for the boys could be very helpful for me in the event that I need it.

His initial diagnosis? I have an ‘adjustment disorder,’ with some aspects of anxiety and depression present—which sounds about right, given everything. According to him, my levels of anxiety and depression are within a ‘normal’ range, so he doesn’t seem terribly concerned at this point. He commented that I seem to be holding up rather well, and that I’m functioning rather well—that I’m functioning at all considering what is going on seems to be a good sign.

It’s only one meeting, but I seem to like him a lot—it went much better than I thought, and it will be good to be back in the saddle with that.

————————————————————-

Go ahead and 2x4 me if you must for this, but since I’m in a journaling mood.......I believe I mentioned this before, but I just miss the reciprocal love / sex / attention / affection from a woman right now. What’s odd is that I’m not sure if I especially want sex / physical affection from W right now—I’ve thought about if / when that happens, and that later on if we get to that point, I’m sure perhaps a sex therapist might be in our future, because it’s been a while since sex / physical affection between us—I feel like it would be awkward.

I just kinda hate this part of everything right now, though it’s not like there’s a whole lot of this I like, besides the working on myself portion of it. I don’t feel like I deserve this in general, but especially the lack of affection part. I don’t recall withholding it from her before BD, and when we practiced NFP we probably went at most 2 weeks without sex, unless W was gone for work for a longer period of time. While she was unhappy that I didn’t always give her what she wanted sexually, I was never mean about it, I would sexually pursue her, and I was usually very physically affectionate with her.

Honestly? I just want to touch and be touched, to love and be loved, in body and in spirit.

From what I’ve read here, I know that for her, sex / affection comes down to respect for me, and for whatever reason, she doesn’t have it, so if I want that back, I’ll have to work on getting her respect for me back. But I have to wonder how much I want her right now, myself.