IH, recognition is the first step in changing a behavior. I recently listed in mikeyb's thread a litany of bad behaviors I was guilty of pre BD. And the actions I replaced them with. Once we recognize it we can correct it. So I think your last post offers a glimpse of the self awareness that you are capable of. That's really good. Now, think of ways you can change it.
As far as keeping the MBR and detachment, the two are not mutually exclusive. Detachment is not physical distance, it is not reacting emotionally to what she says and does. In fact, moving to the basement is the opposite of detaching in your case because you are doing it out of an emotional reaction to her not being physically attracted to you right now. What we are trying to get you to see if that attraction is born out of respect, and moving to the basement isn't going to command respect.
Read the detachment thread again. Look at what Sandi posted. Keep learning about true loving detachment. I would suggest googling and studying self differentiation in marriage as well as that's another way of saying detachment.
Oh and you have Sandi's attention. I encourage you to be flattered and honored by that. Sandi is one of the most insightful DB posters on the planet. Pay close attention to get advice, she really knows what she is talking about.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yes listen to Sandi, I still struggle with detachment, just when I think I have it I get my panties in a bunch over something that happens. I just read her last post to you and has deterred me from confronting about something that just happened.
H-50 W-48 T-19 M -18 S23, S14 BD - 5/9/2018 OM discovered 5/10/2018
In house sep - 8/18/2018 Rope drop 2/15/2019 R'ing since 3/15/2019
Robert, I'm pretty sure your W is having an EA. I suppose the more accurate term, in this case, would be IA (imaginary affair). She is obsessed with a celebrity and fantasizes about being with him. It may seem outrageous and silly to some people, but it should be taken seriously. She is lost in an imaginary world, and her fantasy is fed by the hours consumed in these reality shows. Many women have imaginary affairs. They are women who are not happy with themselves, with their MR, and with their life. They find an escape by reading romance novels, celebrity tabloids, watching tv/movies, etc. They begin to compare their H to the hero in the novel or movie. Guess who comes up with the shorter stick? The H, of course, b/c all that other stuff is make-believe.
Your W wants a brand new body and brand new life. She wants to escape her current life, and no matter how hard you try to show her your improvements, she is going after her fantasy. Am I saying all is hopeless? No, I am saying this is about her and her issues. She will have to experience some type of loss or consequences due to her decision to end the M and search for happiness in fantasy land.
If I were in her shoes, and was a behavior coach (I can't remember the exact title, ATM)......I think I would feel like a fake since I had not lived what I taught. I may be wrong about her, but I wonder how many times she has cringed when people asked about her profession and then looked at her weight. At any rate, she's obviously felt unfulfilled if she's soaking up reality shows. But maybe that's just me.
Then you have your issues, as well. You sound somewhat of the compulsive/obsession nature, and maybe ADD. When things are clutter or out of order it seems to through you out of kilter. That's okay, when you are used to things being tidy and organized, it's very frustrating trying to operate in a disaster area. The problem is compounded b/c there has been some poor relationship habits developed in the M.
The habit I see that has formed over time is that you take on the responsibility of most to all the chores, while she either gave up or she was glad for you to do everything......while she did whatever she wanted. I've said it once and I'll say again that it is not healthy for a man to everything...in order to leave his W with nothing. The fact that you don't mind, or maybe you prefer that kind of setup b/c it works for you......is not really my point here. It's not healthy for a MR. When both spouses are working outside the home at full time employment, the chores need to be fairly divided. Who feeds and bathes the baby? Who takes care of his clothes, packs for day care, etc? Who does the cleaning? As I recall from your first post, cleaning the house has been a point of contention. These issues do not work themselves out. You have to find a solution, or they continue.
Both of you suffer from low self esteem. ATM, you are one another's worst supporters. You are blaming one another for frustrations at home and for your unhappiness. Your W had resentments toward you and that led to disrespect, and she gave up on the M some time ago. And now, she is seeking something else to make her happy. You have done your share of blame, as well. So, there needs to be a solution. Easier said than done, unfortunately. However, that's partly why we are here, to put our heads together and take what we learn from DB to find a better solution.
Okay, so other than a bed, what do you have in the basement? Do you have a TV? Is there a place for the baby to play? Do you have a dorm size frig? Are you really comfortable down there? Does the humidity and mold not affect you? Is there no AC vent in the basement? Summer will be here shortly.
Let me tell why I think your W has suddenly started doing the dishes and some other things upstairs. She is pretending she's single. She has moved you down to the basement......out of sight out of mind. She is stage setting. She has removed her rings from her finger, removed her H from the marital bedroom, and now she wants to rehearse being a single mom. So, if you are dead set on staying in that basement, then my advice is to back off doing her share of chores.... and allow her to have as much feel for a single working mom as possible. She won't get anywhere close to the reality of being a single mom, but it's a start. (Gosh, can you imagine living in a RV with a one-year child? Yeah, that would get old the first week on the road.)
As you ponder on these things, I want you to consider dividing up the weekdays and weekends with your W, and having a schedule for which parent will stay home to keep the baby......while the other parent is free to do whatever they choose. Do not give her every Saturday free. There needs to be an equal trade, or as close as possible. Know what I mean? On the nights/days you are free.....you need to leave that house....at least for a while. Don't share with her your whereabouts, your activity, or with whom. As long as there is a cell phone, where she can reach you in case of an emergency, I think that's all that's necessary. She wanted separation, plus, I doubt she'll she be sharing much with you about her free time activities. So, find a coffee shop to hang out, walk around in Walmart, go to the library to read, go see your guy friends, go to the gym to work out, or use your spare time in reinventing the new Robert. Just don't hang out with your W. Can you do it?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi that you for your input. Your assessment is for the most part spot on. My wife's EA (IA) habits and behaviors are so patheticly predictable literally every single night, and sometimes im the morning between 9pm and 11pm every single night before she goes to sleep. Probably why she wants me out of the marriage bed. I won't compete with that. 3 or 4 days ago she was changing with the door open, while I was watching our son, I turned my back to her changing, so she replied "Oh its nothing you haven't seen before." Today I was walking into the bedroom to get our son, and she shut the door, and said she was changing. She flip flops. Sometimes she pees with the door open, other times with it closed when I'm around.
Sandi you are awesome and have a lot of integrity, you really rock, your time, insight and effort here is invaluable. I genuinely appreciate what you are doing here selflessly for other people going through these crises. At the risk of sounding like a misogynist, it really amazes however just how much women lie to themselves, and to others around them, not to mention how far they can stretch their imagination and feelings into fantasy, and have it conflict with reality. Even the ones that appear on the surface to have some integrity like my wife. Now I know why everyone says, believe none of what they say and half of what they do.
I also read the other day, Women's Infidelity 1 and 2 Being in Limbo and Breaking out of Limbo. Very big eye opener on female psychology, how they lie to themselves and to others, how they always grab one hand before letting go of another, their plan a and plan b, the perception they generate to people and spouses, their secret desires and affairs whether emotional or physical, their indecisiveness in their lives based on their feelings. Its no wonder women need to be lead by a emotionally secure and confidant man. Because if most men really knew the difference between what women were thinking, and what they were saying, they would call bullshit on the turn of every corner, as they should. This all goes back to Adam and Eve biblically. But all in all, they are the nurturers and giver of life which I respect.
This morning she invited me out to breakfast with her and her mom and grandmother with the baby at the last minute. I declined due to such short notice, the fact that I was attempting to get the brand new treadmill out of the basement, so I can move the bed in the spare guestroom downstairs, and the treadmill unto the guest room, but with no luck because its too heavy, I'm going to have to get my brothers help tomorrow, and finish cleaning today. I also replied to her that we should start acting like we are seperated.. "She replied that she didn't know if she should ask me because we are seperating" I put most of her stuff right in the middle of the dining room. She got home from breakfast I did my thing downstairs while she vegged on the couch while the baby was nappung for a couple of hours. Her stuff is still there. She looked all curled up, sleepy and depressed after she got home from breakfast. I just came up to announce that after the baby wakes up, we need to get to the resell store to get rid of the baby stuff. We went out to resell store to sell and get rid of some the baby stuff. I couldn't resist to be happy and bust on her every chance I got, looking for any opportunity.. Some comments got a laugh, others... Meh... I noticed she was complaining a lot about some of the scenery she was taking in about random buildings, etc... So I said to her with a smile... "Gee you really like to hear yourself complain?" So she replied... "Well look who I learned it from?" I just let it roll off my back, and said "You must be on your period" She agreed and confirmed such. While we were looking around and waiting in the baby resell place, she started doing it again. This time i gave her the look with a smirk. Then she verbally agreed, "You are right I an complaining a lot."
I was actually reading yours and Steve's reply in the store, and on the way home. I was looking at one of my meetup groups, and notice I missed my Salsa Lesson tonight which I mention. She mentions to me that if I was to start dating, that they wouldn't be allowed over the house or around our son. I laughed and agreed. She then proceeded to elaborate that she wouldn't want me double dipping, if we were to get back together, and that it would be a deal breaker, and that she expected me to be open and transparent about that. I replied. "Let me think about that... "Besides, what difference does it make or concern is it of yours? We are seperated right? She went on and on about how she truly wants to he single and find herself..,, blah blah blah...I almost wanted to ask her. "Who are you trying to convince? Me or yourself? WE went further into things, and I kept calling her on B.S. I will comment on the continuatio of our sich after this post.
I have much more details to add. But i am now writing from my MBR. I am in bed at 4am. I came up from the basement after she went to sleep. I am to the point where this situation with the EA(IA) and the whole attempt at in house seperation is just so pathetic, that I actually am going to enjoy screwing with her, and interrupting her bad behaviors while still maintaining distance. She can stay in the MBR or she can have the whole rest of the house for her space.
Who knows? Lol. Maybe I can motivate her to divorce me first, or buy an RV and skip town.
Yes Women's Infidelity books are eye opening. I mentioned that I had private consultation with another author early in my sitch before on this forum, and the author of those two books is the author I've eluded to.
IH its easy to get jaded after getting hurt. I was there myself. After all, my wife was an upstanding church goer that taught Bible class for the young kids and was deeply involved with our congregation. She even looks back now and can't believe her actions and thoughts and feelings. I've told about her dating profile I discovered on a dating site. I even took screenshots of it. The lengthy description she put on it showed her internal struggle. She referred to herself as a good girl with a bit of a rebel streak. Mentioned she taught Bible class, didn't drink, smoke, do drugs, or use bad language. Told how she couldn't date yet because she was still married and wanted out even though her husband wanted to try. It was a very good insight into what she was thinking and feeling.
My point is that this thing your W is going through is very real to her. If you love her you'll understand that she is struggling. She wants to stay. She wants to go. I truly believe that WWs don't lie so much as they honestly don't know what they want deep down. They are confused. My wife told me that when she felt one way at a particular time that could change in five minutes.
Do all women go through that? I doubt it. Some do. Some don't. Some are more susceptible to media messages and imagery. It can be easy to paint them all with the same brush. But the truth is that they aren't all on the same journey. Some never will be.
So deal with your W as the unique individual she is. Avoid the temptation to chalk it up to women being women. Plenty of men go through the same kind of thing.
Last edited by Steve85; 02/03/1912:37 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
The other thing about her dating profile, she mentioned twice in her profile how she believes in doing the right thing. Even said during one of the instances that she can be tenacious about doing good or what is right. Huh? Right on the middle of tearing her family apart??? Shows how the WW has it in their head that what they are doing is not wrong, somehow someway. I don't think it is a lie to them. They have convinced themselves it is the right thing to do. I think if you gave them a lie detector and asked if divorcing their husband was right their answer yes and it would be truthful.
Not sure what this insight means other than the fact that the LBH can't and shouldn't use "but it's wrong" as a ploy to saves the marriage.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So the continuation of my story from yesterday while leaving the baby place, we stopped at Wendy's, got into an argument about the joint checking account because I had to borrow money from there to fix my brakes. My brakes went out on my car costing me 2 days of work, and couldn't afford to have someone fix it. I checked with her several times before doing so.We have continually argued over me borrowing money from the joint account in certain situations. I had to borrow a little more than expected, and my check was short from last week, due to either work being called off a day, and me leaving early from two hours away, to pick her up at the hospital. We then got into it about finding ourselves and working on ourselves, and keeping commitment to that, which went into me mistskingly pointing out the reality show stuff, and she took it as a put down, but I simply stated it wasn't meant that way. She stated to me that im not getting it, when it comes to giving her her space. So I stated, we haven't talked in a week, and haven't been around each other for a week, other tgan the baby's sake and the finances. As soon as we got home we will I went right into the finances with her to make sure we split everything down the middle, who was responsible for what debts, etc, even, now we're both on the same page. We even filed the taxes. I stated that I was going to work with her and I'm on her side as far as getting things done. We can talk around the seperation, boundaries, calendars, etc. I asked her if you're taking it this far with wanting to get away from me, why not just divorce me. She said she wasn't sure she actually wanted divorce. She then told me about her IC session, and they discussed intimacy, and how she didnt feel intimate because of pent up feelings and walls she erected. She said she cried at the session. I asked her why? Because you know its over? She said no because its just difficult dealing with of what once was, or something to that affect. So I left it at that.
This morning after i got back into the MBR, she made her coffee, and sat on the couch, then we discussed me moving back into the MBR. Since most of my closet belongings are in the spare bedroom due to space requirements, at first she was all for moving, then she renegged, because of all of her stuff and shelving system in the MBR that it didn't make sense to move into the spare. She wanted to know why, and I said, I like the MBR that I shouldn't have to move, I'm not the one requesting space. She attemted to at least have me stay in the guest room, because she was consideting the mold in the basement. So then we agreed that downstairs would be my hangout space, that the treadmill would not come upstairs, and remain in the office, I called off my brother to help me move it, and she started taking measurements of the guest bedroom, and boxing up her stuff. She is going along with it, and showing control of her composure, but her facial expressions are pissed, and that we would start moving everything from one room to another.
I still have some wiring to do in the guest bedroom. Guys I don't feel right about this, it feels like I'm driving the nail further in the coffin out if spite, rather then hanging back.
Her wedding ring has now disappeared from her tray next to her engagement ring. I also noticed triple as a batteries on her nightstand, which means, vibrator...lol..
Someone please help me. I really don't know if I am doing the right thing by kicking her out of the MBR for the right reasons. I really don't see respect being earned from this power play, just more resentment.
You aren't kicking her out of the MBR, you are stating your position as the man of the house is in your bed. You think any of these fantasy men she has would go sleep in the basement? Nah. They sleep in the big bed.
The wedding ring disappeared? Yea, we've all seen that one. That along with all these comments about "finding yourself" are enough to make me want to puke.
You bring up divorce and things being over with her a lot. Why? A detached person wouldn't be so focused on all of this. You need to have a roll with it/IDGAF type of attitude in regards to her emotional storm.
Does she work? You use the phrase "borrow money" in regards to spending money on normal family expenses out of your joint account. Isn't it your money? Who are you borrowing it from? Do both you and your spouse work?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
