She's got to be having an affair, or had one, and is also obsessed with Chris Soules. I just caught her looking at Hallmark Romantic Gifts. Definateky not for me. Were moving our stuff and she seem coperative.
Yeah i called her out on her bullshit yesterday on "finding herself", her girl code of ILYBINILWYAM, and how women smooth over their feelings to other people so they let them down gently. I made it crystal clear, she can do what she wants and goes where she wants, but our son stays in the state, and he needs a father, and I can never be replaced.
Even said during one of the instances that she can be tenacious about doing good or what is right. Huh? Right on the middle of tearing her family apart??? Shows how the WW has it in their head that what they are doing is not wrong, somehow someway. I don't think it is a lie to them. They have convinced themselves it is the right thing to do. I think if you gave them a lie detector and asked if divorcing their husband was right their answer yes and it would be truthful.
Steve, I don't want to hijack Robert's thread, and I usually agree with the posts you write, but I feel we may need to clarify something, for the sake of this newcomer and others.
There are men & women who truly lose themselves in a fantasy.... and due to mental illness, they can become obsessed with whomever is the object of their desire, and they lose touch with reality. Look at the people who have stalked and killed (or attempted) celebrities......b/c they went off the deep end. The media would interview doctors who then would try to explain to a shocked public how this happens. Doctors stated that due to the mental illness, the stalker began to believe the fantasy. When they were ignored/rejected by the celebrity, that's when things would take a tragic turn.
I knew a lady IRL whose H had been deceased for many years. She never M again, and as far as anyone knew, she was a good Christian who lived a respectful, simple life. Simple.....and very lonely. Long story short, this lady believed that a certain TV character was going to M her. My own mother tried to "talk sense" into her, but the lady had clearly crossed over into the Twilight Zone....never to return. Turns out that she had a history of mental illness.
My point is that these are examples where mental illness was the reason they could not distinguish the fantasy from reality. Waywardness is not a mental illness. Mental illness is not a choice. Waywardness is a choice, just as love and happiness are choices. If you examine every wayward case, you will find resentment, lack of respect, and rebellion. Therefore the WW is aware she is doing is wrong. She knows she is lying, cheating, etc. That's why she feels she must justify her actions. Does she lie to herself? You might say she chooses to lie to herself b/c she wants to believe the fantasy she's created so much that she tries to convince herself it's true. It's sort of like trying to hide things from yourself. You really know. She may talk the talk and play the part, and seek self justification.......but down deep, she knows she is wrong, if she has been raised to have any moral conviction. We are seeing more & more people who do not seem to be bothered by a moral conscious these days. They decide they don't want to be M one day and think taking off their wedding band is as good as divorce papers.
I understand a man might find some degree of comfort if his WW honestly didn't know she was doing anything wrong. But again, I believe WW's do know when they lie. Yes, there is usually a fantasy they've created in their head, and yes, they want to believe it.......but they know when they lie and when they are cheating and betraying the LBH. That's why they seek justification for their actions.
I saw my former DIL send out things on FB (you know stuff that gets passed from one to the next). She would post these pretty little songs or poem about the joy of trusting the one you love, yada, yada. Of course, she was referring to her and her new lover, until someone reminded her how it was too bad the same couldn't said about her.
Steve, I think your W was posting the characteristics she wanted people to see in her profile. It just happens to be the description of the lady she had been before she chose to take a wayward path. I joined one dating site for a very short period. Actually, it appeared to be a site for a bunch of cheaters. Some were just more obvious about their intentions, than others. I wouldn't post my picture, and I was so vague in my profile I'm surprised I had any responses at all. Since my experience in dating sites is limited (thank God) IDK if they are all like the one I was on......or if there are more "respectful" ones. Her profile sounds like something a lady would post on a Christian dating site.
Sometimes I get frustrated when we've been trying to help some newcomer who has a WW, and he doesn't like what he's hearing, so he jumps over into the MLC forum.........as if that's going to be easier. One LBH told me that he had a harder time accepting that his W would be wayward than if she was having a MLC. I see his point, and especially when there is such a drastic change in the woman you knew and the wayward W who was tearing up your family.
Oh goodness, here I've gone and written another book. Anyway, I hope you know I am not trying to pick on one short .post just to cause grief. From time to time, other LBH's have made similar comments about their WW, so I felt impressed to respond. I just didn't mean to respond with so many words. If I totally misunderstood you, I apologize.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Even said during one of the instances that she can be tenacious about doing good or what is right. Huh? Right on the middle of tearing her family apart??? Shows how the WW has it in their head that what they are doing is not wrong, somehow someway. I don't think it is a lie to them. They have convinced themselves it is the right thing to do. I think if you gave them a lie detector and asked if divorcing their husband was right their answer yes and it would be truthful.
Steve, I don't want to hijack Robert's thread, and I usually agree with the posts you write, but I feel we may need to clarify something, for the sake of this newcomer and others.
There are men & women who truly lose themselves in a fantasy.... and due to mental illness, they can become obsessed with whomever is the object of their desire, and they lose touch with reality. Look at the people who have stalked and killed (or attempted) celebrities......b/c they went off the deep end. The media would interview doctors who then would try to explain to a shocked public how this happens. Doctors stated that due to the mental illness, the stalker began to believe the fantasy. When they were ignored/rejected by the celebrity, that's when things would take a tragic turn.
I knew a lady IRL whose H had been deceased for many years. She never M again, and as far as anyone knew, she was a good Christian who lived a respectful, simple life. Simple.....and very lonely. Long story short, this lady believed that a certain TV character was going to M her. My own mother tried to "talk sense" into her, but the lady had clearly crossed over into the Twilight Zone....never to return. Turns out that she had a history of mental illness.
My point is that these are examples where mental illness was the reason they could not distinguish the fantasy from reality. Waywardness is not a mental illness. Mental illness is not a choice. Waywardness is a choice, just as love and happiness are choices. If you examine every wayward case, you will find resentment, lack of respect, and rebellion. Therefore the WW is aware she is doing is wrong. She knows she is lying, cheating, etc. That's why she feels she must justify her actions. Does she lie to herself? You might say she chooses to lie to herself b/c she wants to believe the fantasy she's created so much that she tries to convince herself it's true. It's sort of like trying to hide things from yourself. You really know. She may talk the talk and play the part, and seek self justification.......but down deep, she knows she is wrong, if she has been raised to have any moral conviction. We are seeing more & more people who do not seem to be bothered by a moral conscious these days. They decide they don't want to be M one day and think taking off their wedding band is as good as divorce papers.
I understand a man might find some degree of comfort if his WW honestly didn't know she was doing anything wrong. But again, I believe WW's do know when they lie. Yes, there is usually a fantasy they've created in their head, and yes, they want to believe it.......but they know when they lie and when they are cheating and betraying the LBH. That's why they seek justification for their actions.
I saw my former DIL send out things on FB (you know stuff that gets passed from one to the next). She would post these pretty little songs or poem about the joy of trusting the one you love, yada, yada. Of course, she was referring to her and her new lover, until someone reminded her how it was too bad the same couldn't said about her.
Steve, I think your W was posting the characteristics she wanted people to see in her profile. It just happens to be the description of the lady she had been before she chose to take a wayward path. I joined one dating site for a very short period. Actually, it appeared to be a site for a bunch of cheaters. Some were just more obvious about their intentions, than others. I wouldn't post my picture, and I was so vague in my profile I'm surprised I had any responses at all. Since my experience in dating sites is limited (thank God) IDK if they are all like the one I was on......or if there are more "respectful" ones. Her profile sounds like something a lady would post on a Christian dating site.
Sometimes I get frustrated when we've been trying to help some newcomer who has a WW, and he doesn't like what he's hearing, so he jumps over into the MLC forum.........as if that's going to be easier. One LBH told me that he had a harder time accepting that his W would be wayward than if she was having a MLC. I see his point, and especially when there is such a drastic change in the woman you knew and the wayward W who was tearing up your family.
Oh goodness, here I've gone and written another book. Anyway, I hope you know I am not trying to pick on one short .post just to cause grief. From time to time, other LBH's have made similar comments about their WW, so I felt impressed to respond. I just didn't mean to respond with so many words. If I totally misunderstood you, I apologize.
((hugs))
I am still yet to figure out if my w is ww or mlc. I think its difficult to figure out exactly which one it is. Thats crazy to think someone could have a fantasy about a character on tv but i remember that happening with those books years ago. Women were leaving their marriages because they read 50 shades of grey and were comparing him to their Husbands...
Sandi, very well said. Yes I agree that she was probably trying to post a profile for who she used to be. Or maybe she even put the thing about doing the right thing to try to convince herself that it was still true.
Sandi thanks as always for the amazing insight.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
1st night in MBR, W moved all her stuff moved into guest room. Man this is wierd.. Lol.. Haven't slept here in over a month. Do I feel a little guilty?.. Ok maybe just a little...lol... Lets see if it fosters any change.? Not only around the house, but in our lives. I doubt it though. Her browsing habits and her EA/IA is still right on time. IDGAF though. People need to see their selfish behaviors, especially if they are a behaviorist. I know I have mine too, and I am attempting to 180 them.
"How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
I am guilty Jesus forgive me for this, and allow me to be the example and model around me so that people may understand humility and servanthood from you.
Lets see if it fosters any change.? Not only around the house, but in our lives. I doubt it though.
I would not attach expectations to your move back into the MBR. As the faithful spouse and as the head of your family, that's where you need to reside. I'm not for causing WWIII over a H taking back the MBR after he agreed to leave, however, it appears you handled it well, Now that you are back in your rightful place, don't be switching rooms again.
Quote
"How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
That scripture checks our pride every time, doesn't it?
The WW will use many cards to play, but the 2 most common is the guilt card (where she hits you in the most vulnerable area to guilt you into doing what she wants) and the control card (where she accuses you of trying to control her. Actually, it is the WW who is manipulating by playing these cards. So, you will need to stay balanced in your thinking, or else you will fall. H's often want to make up for his part of the downfall in the MR, and show his W how they can have a better relationship. If he's not careful, he allows 180's to become more about accommodating his WW, than improving himself as a man. Nothing works to change her feelings about her H, until she sees his actions reflect respect for himself as a man. When God said the woman's "desire will be unto her husband", everything changed for future MR's.
Speaking as a former WW, your W needs to see you standing tall & straight (like a leader) and not reveal emotions or inner weakness. She does not respect you as her H....or as a man. She is rebellious and you cannot pet her or spoil her. It is worse than having a rebellious child. I don't know how long she will be stubborn and rebellious, so you need to draw inner strength every day. One thing I see H's do is try to rationalize with the WW. It doesn't work. The H tries to relay to her some gems of truth he reads, hoping it will have positive influence on her. It doesn't work. The H's daily actions will be scrutinized by his WW. If she sees a man who won't put up with her selfish manipulations, and won't tolerate disrespectful interactions, and who will not succumb to her temptations, or get caught up in the snare she set.....then she will begin seeing him through new light. The key is consistency. This is going to take a long time, b/c her heart did not become cold, hard & rebellious overnight.
Don't try to change her mind. If you try to change her mind, then you'll be trying to get her to read something, watch something, hear a particular sermon, etc. She will see it as your attempt to save the M.....so, she'll treat you worse in order to convince you it's over. If she sees you being overly excited that she smiled at you, or spoke in a civil manner, or was on good behavior for s couple of hours........she's going to treat you badly to prove it's over. She doesn't want you trying to save the MR. Dropping the bomb was not her way of waking you up to work on the M. It was her way of telling you she's done. Yes, it woke you up, however, you have to be smart in how you go forward.
I wish it was as easy as sitting down and having a heart to heart conversation to work things out. Relationship talks don't work when your WW has reached this point. Oh, you might temporarily feel relieved by talking, but when you see her dig her heels in deeper.....you'll know it only made things worse. Therefore, let your behavior be your conversation.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
