I Was a Jerk (Part 1)

[ovrrnbw]

Would a detached person be investigating an ex's current flings? No. I say that's good that you can let that go.

And yea, are you friends with all of your exes? I would have told right there, I won't be ever be your friend, even if you stopped treating me like crap.

I like that you're keeping your cool, that's good stuff.

I hope you're getting out and getting active doing something too.

[Gekko]

Would a detached person be investigating an ex's current flings? No. I say that's good that you can let that go.

Yes I take not caring to investigate as a sign of detachment. When I have that feeling 100% of the time I guess I will be fully detached. I'm certainly not there yet due to my fluctuations but it's a good sign that I am in that frame of mind some of the time. I'm on my way.

And yea, are you friends with all of your exes? I would have told right there, I won't be ever be your friend, even if you stopped treating me like crap.

W has made reference to being friends for the kids' sake several times. I have told her that we will be co-parents and hopefully amicable, but I wouldn't say "friends". I should have been stronger on that point this last time, I agree.

On this subject, I need go back and read DR and some threads here regarding thoughts on doing things with W and the kids, the four of us together. My gut inclination, and a pretty strong one, is not to. We will no longer be a family. I'm not sure it's better for the kids to play one. I'm guessing W wants to do things together to 1) try and make things easier on the kids, and/or 2) to ease the guilt she is probably feeling for blowing the family up. Maybe other reasons I haven't thought of. Cake-eating if she is in an A? Could be that too.

I like that you're keeping your cool, that's good stuff.

ABC, always be cool. Maintaining control in the face of W's shyt-tests and BS makes me feel fantastic.

I hope you're getting out and getting active doing something too.

GAL is going great, it is a bit more challenging with two young kids but I'm getting it done. I am getting plenty of time in at the gym, weekly meet-ups with friends for drinks or live music, some late work nights, projects at the house, and trying to get more alone time with just me and kids for portions of the weekend. I'm never just sitting around, I'm always either working on something or on my way out. This part has been easy for me as I had a busy life before, I am just ramping it up now. Part of my continuing GAL over the next month:

1. Keep hitting the gym hard - weights and cardio.
2. Get to the doc for a physical.
3. Get to the dentist for a cleaning and a touch of whitening.
4. Time for a haircut - keeping it short, definitely takes a few years off the appearance. Also doing some color conditioning at home to reduce the gray, takes another few years off.
5. Dermatologist for a skin check and to discuss face care regimen. Investing some $$ and effort into the face will pay big dividends,
6. Shopping for new clothes, business and casual, and workout gear. Don't forget about underwear and socks, it feels better to have new stuff. Couple of pairs of new shoes as well.
7. Weekend trip with the fellas.
8. Continue weekly dinner/drinks out with friends.
9. Schedule some fun stuff with the kids over the weekends, just me and them.

I will also keep the board updated as the D talks progress. I believe W still intends to tell the kids about the D this weekend, so as we get closer to Saturday I am sure I will start to spin a little.

[Ready2Change]

Would a detached person be investigating an ex's current flings?

Are you still married? As a man and the "Protector" would it be attractive if you address anything that may be attacking your marriage?

And yea, are you friends with all of your exes? I would have told right there, I won't ever be your friend, even if you stopped treating me like crap.

I like this. I laso like PDT quote ="I have no intentions on ever being your friend, especially when you have decided to cut and run like this."

On this subject, I need go back and read DR and some threads here regarding thoughts on doing things with W and the kids, the four of us together. My gut inclination, and a pretty strong one, is not to.

Mine to. especially in the beginning.

We will no longer be a family. I'm not sure it's better for the kids to play one.

H:W, You have made it clear that you have no intention on being married or addressing the issues that got us to this point. I have no intention to pretending that things are fine when they are not. I believe it is best if we bla bla bla"

[Gekko]

The past few weeks have been crazy at work which has kept me off the board and also more limited face time with W which has been good. W is intent on moving forward with D and we will be telling the kids this weekend. We had two separate discussions about telling the kids which morphed into R talks. In both instances I recognized my bad behavior and its impact on the R, and addressed the dynamic of why I was acting as I did. I believe this will be the last time I do so as it has happened several times already and outside of MC/recon efforts I'm not sure how much more value there is in continuing to validate my shortcomings. Thoughts on this much appreciated - is there such a thing as too much?

W admitted she was probably critical of me and a beeatch at time but that it was only because she was fed up with me. So we have a chicken and egg situation. As the discussion flowed I tried to drill down into what is one of the main issues from my view - that regardless of the situation W spoke to me with such disrespect (sometimes blatant, sometimes veiled), sarcastic, snide comments, put-downs and insults that are never acceptable in a M. She hit me with - "I am just blunt" and "You are too sensitive". My response was that there is a difference between being "blunt" and being rude and disrespectful. She is not seeing it, and simply thinks we are a bad fit because I "don't get her". She said I need a more passive partner. I told her what I needed was someone who doesn't disrespect me in a nasty, snide manner.

I think I am just done with any R talks for quite awhile, even if W initiates, because my points regarding W's behavior have been made and my acknowledgment of my issues has also been made. Outside of MC I am just not feeling any more need to get into it. W did say that she would attend MC with me, but with the idea that it would help convince me that we are a bad fit and the M is over. I told her that I don't need a therapist to tell me what my W's position is, that I'm getting that straight from her.

W seems to be pressuring me to agree that D is mutual and that we will never work. I told her it is not mutual and that I don't know if the M can be saved or not because I have not given it my best shot and she hasn't made any effort in years. So she is on her own in the position that there is no hope. W doesn't like being in that spot alone. Too bad.

The reality is that the R will never work if she doesn't recognize the difference between "blunt" and flat out rude and disrespectful, doesn't learn to control her snide commentary, and fix the other problematic behavior. She has a lot of work to do but that is her journey if she chooses to go that route. I have serious doubts she ever will, because she is never wrong or at fault. She doesn't apologize. She is who she is in her mind and that's that. I'll help her change however I can if she ever gets to that point, but I can't wait around life is too short especially since i'm on the wrong side of 50.

[AnotherStander]

In both instances I recognized my bad behavior and its impact on the R, and addressed the dynamic of why I was acting as I did. I believe this will be the last time I do so as it has happened several times already and outside of MC/recon efforts I'm not sure how much more value there is in continuing to validate my shortcomings. Thoughts on this much appreciated - is there such a thing as too much?

Oh yes, absolutely. If you've apologized once or twice and it was sincere and genuine (IE, not just "I'm sorry" but actually talking about what you did wrong and apologizing for it) then don't keep revisiting it. WAS's love to rewrite history to blame the LBS for everything. When the LBS overly apologizes for everything under the sun then it just helps convince the WAS that her version of history is correct and it really is all his fault.

W admitted she was probably critical of me and a beeatch at time but that it was only because she was fed up with me.

So again, all your fault. Doesn't sound to me like she's owning up to anything.

As the discussion flowed I tried to drill down into what is one of the main issues from my view - that regardless of the situation W spoke to me with such disrespect (sometimes blatant, sometimes veiled), sarcastic, snide comments, put-downs and insults that are never acceptable in a M. She hit me with - "I am just blunt" and "You are too sensitive". My response was that there is a difference between being "blunt" and being rude and disrespectful.

Don't tell her she's being disrespectful after the fact as that just sounds like blame. You need to do it WHEN she is being disrespectful. THAT is the time to state "I am not going to be treated with disrespect like this" and then walk away, or leave the house or whatever it takes to send her a message that you're not putting up with it.

I think I am just done with any R talks for quite awhile, even if W initiates, because my points regarding W's behavior have been made and my acknowledgment of my issues has also been made. Outside of MC I am just not feeling any more need to get into it. W did say that she would attend MC with me, but with the idea that it would help convince me that we are a bad fit and the M is over.

Well at least she's honest. DO NOT go to MC. Go to IC if you feel it helps you, but don't do MC at all. She's right, she will only do it to check off her list of "things I did to save the M but just proved it was already over."

W seems to be pressuring me to agree that D is mutual and that we will never work.

"W, I do not want a D, I want to work on the M. But I understand this is what you want and I will not stand in your way. I will support your decision no matter what it is." Be respectful, not argumentative. You can disagree with her while still letting her know it's her decision and you will abide by it. Because legally you don't have a choice anyway, it only takes one to D. Your goal is to remove all pressure. Go along with whatever she says. Don't do the work yourself, but don't block her actions if she does the work. Most of the time if the WAS gets the sense that the LBS isn't going to fight the D, then they don't feel pressured to pursue it and they will put it on the back burner for "later".

[Ready2Change]

I'm not sure how much more value there is in continuing to validate my shortcomings. Thoughts on this much appreciated - is there such a thing as too much?

If she brings it up:

W:"bla bla bla past bad behavior..bla bla bla"
H:"I am sorry. I can't change the past. I am not proud of my past behavior and have no intention on doing that in the future."
W:"bla bla bla bla"
H:"I understand you feel that way"

[Gekko]

As the discussion flowed I tried to drill down into what is one of the main issues from my view - that regardless of the situation W spoke to me with such disrespect (sometimes blatant, sometimes veiled), sarcastic, snide comments, put-downs and insults that are never acceptable in a M. She hit me with - "I am just blunt" and "You are too sensitive". My response was that there is a difference between being "blunt" and being rude and disrespectful.

Don't tell her she's being disrespectful after the fact as that just sounds like blame. You need to do it WHEN she is being disrespectful. THAT is the time to state "I am not going to be treated with disrespect like this" and then walk away, or leave the house or whatever it takes to send her a message that you're not putting up with it.
__________________________

That's a great point AS. I have had a long-term progression of responses to her remarks over the years that has evolved into what it is today. I never let a dis pass. Years ago I would get defensive and strike back. I would also say "are you purposely trying to make me feel bad about myself? Well it's not working." Also "where did you learn that spouses should talk like that to each other?"

Then I moved on to a more passive-aggressive sarcastic response to her critical digs. "oh, you're so sweet!" or "you really know how to make a guy feel great!"


Nowadays I calmly say "that was rude" or "don't talk to me like that" or "i'm done with this conversation until you can speak to me respectfully" for the worst most blatant remarks from her. Regarding the more veiled jabs and sarcastic digs, if I have a quick humorous comeback on the tip of my tongue I will deliver it - the example I have used before is if W is jabbing me while I am driving I will scan the console with my hand while stating that I am looking for the passenger seat ejector button. If I don't have a quick response, I will just completely ignore the jab (as long as it's not too harsh and in need of being called out) and let her jab flop like a bad joke that bombs while I move on to other things.

The key for me is to never, ever get riled up or emotional. It actually helps in such circumstances to truly believe that I am superior to W and will not take the bait or let her trigger me. She does not have the power to bring out the negative emotion in me. I will not lie to myself and say I am at a point where her BS doesn't irritate me on the inside ("there she goes again!"), but I never let it show on the outside. The calm feeling is tremendous. I sense it really has a way of getting into W's head.

I used to tell W "it's not necessarily what you're saying (criticism"), it's HOW you're saying it - your tone and how you are coming at me in an attacking manner" . I have found that tone and demeanor in response are equally important - I can say a variety of different things in response to W as long as my delivery is calm and cool.

[Gekko]

Well the W just cannot seem to control herself with pretty much daily criticisms and multiple jabs at me. I am continuing to maintain my cool but I have to say I am feeling almost totally over the sitch and am really starting to want out pretty bad. I honestly don't even think I like her let alone love her at this point. Is this a part of the process that the vets have seen/experienced?

I am finding myself walking the line between being bummed that the kids will be shuttling between two houses and all the logistics, not to mention the huge added expense, but then feeling a sense of relief and dare I say happiness of not having to listen to the W's BS. And getting complete control of my house, without the constant micro-management and control by W. It's a conflicted feeling but I find myself focusing on a lot of silver linings at this point.

[AnotherStander]

Well the W just cannot seem to control herself with pretty much daily criticisms and multiple jabs at me. I am continuing to maintain my cool but I have to say I am feeling almost totally over the sitch and am really starting to want out pretty bad. I honestly don't even think I like her let alone love her at this point. Is this a part of the process that the vets have seen/experienced?

Yes it's normal to think you are done, but don't expect it to stay that way. Recovery is like driving over a series of hills, there are peaks and valleys. When you hit a new peak you think you're done and have moved on but guess what, you're not out of the hills yet and there's a valley dead ahead. Be patient, don't act on these feelings (IE, file for S or D yourself) until you stabilize.

[Ready2Change]

daily criticisms and multiple jabs at me. ... constant micro-management and control by W.

Any examples of interactions you would like to share so we can give alternative behavior for you to try in similar future encounters?