If you don't make him work he will not have any respect for you.
I'm just going to say this again b/c I've lived on the wrong end of this and thought "oh boy, we're back!!!", as in my W and I are back together and working on this marriage. It can't be said enough.
I've been through several times. It's one of those things I look back on and wonder why I didn't put my foot down right away.
That is so true ovrrnbw.
Original BD: 10/26/2017 PA: 10/2017 - 11/2017 Second BD: 09/15/2018 Currently: IHS M: 42 H: 45 S: 22 lives on his own D: 18 away at college S: 15 still lives at home - the only child we share together
he didn’t recommend marriage counseling (unless MC stands for something else)
I know. I believe that is what you should EXPECT from him. Otherwise his words during the last R talk mean nothing.
He should be begging you for another chance. He should say he will do whatever it takes.
You are absolutely correct!
Original BD: 10/26/2017 PA: 10/2017 - 11/2017 Second BD: 09/15/2018 Currently: IHS M: 42 H: 45 S: 22 lives on his own D: 18 away at college S: 15 still lives at home - the only child we share together
The real question is how do you (WE) get him to that point?
I’m not sure what to do to get him to that point. I suck at the lovingly detachment. I just cut him off and he can’t handle that. What I mean by cut him off is I pretty much stop talking to him unless he talks to me.
[quote] TAOS is one tool for you. It has been a long time since I read it, but it is full of counter intuitive things for you to consider.
It is one big cha-cha dance. You pull away, he purses. You just can't pull too far away. or he says F it.
I’m still working on that book. I’m almost finished with it.
I’m pretty sure I probably pull to far away. I’m kind of scared about that too. I don’t want him to say F it. We get so much advice on this forum that some days I’m not sure what the heck to do, lol.
I kind of like it when he pursues me, I’ll admit that. I guess I just don’t know what to do after that. Because I’m never sure what his true intentions are when he pursues me.
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I am going to say this again. You have to make this fun. For you and for him.
He has to "Feel" that he is loosing you.
I’d love to take some of the pressure off and just have fun but I’m always worried I’m breaking the BD rules.
Last week he came in my room to tell me something and he tried to hug me and I punched him in the arm. Not in a violent way but sort of a playful way (I think, lol). He said do it again, and I did. Then he picked me up and threw me on the bed and we wrestled for a bit. We laughed like kids and guess what...I wanted to have sex with him.
I’m embarrassed to admit that. But our little playful moment turned both of us on. I didn’t do it by the way. Once I felt like would totally give into that, I told him I was tired and ready for bed. I told him good night and asked him to leave my room. Lol.
So I guess I’m just clueless on this Ready2Change.
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What is going on for V-day?
I planned on treating myself to dinner and a movie.
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What are your thoughts on this: W:"H, I know things are not looking good right now, but I would like to know what you are planning for VD."
Before I left for the weekend he told me he wanted to take me to dinner. Every year for VD, our tradition was to go to our favorite restaurant. So he says he wanted to take me to dinner and I told him I already had plans. He responded, I would like to take you to dinner. I responded, with I’m not sure why we would spend VD together. He says why not? Anywho, the conversation ended with him saying the invitation stands and if you don’t want to go with me, I’ll go by myself, but I would love for you to go.
Last edited by Living; 02/13/1901:48 AM.
Original BD: 10/26/2017 PA: 10/2017 - 11/2017 Second BD: 09/15/2018 Currently: IHS M: 42 H: 45 S: 22 lives on his own D: 18 away at college S: 15 still lives at home - the only child we share together
Living, your situation is really tough. Your H clearly has feelings for you, but is not wiling or able to commit at this time. You also seem to wish to have space to grow, but don't want to disengage entirely.
Originally Posted by Living
Before I left for the weekend he told me he wanted to take me to dinner. Every year for VD, our tradition was to go to our favorite restaurant. So he says he wanted to take me to dinner and I told him I already had plans. He responded, I would like to take you to dinner. I responded, with I’m not sure why we would spend VD together. He says why not? Anywho, the conversation ended with him saying the invitation stands and if you don’t want to go with me, I’ll go by myself, but I would love for you to go.
I see this as a very good convo, because H asked clearly and calmly (and rationally! Two points for rational!) for what his wish is. Personally, I feel like positive behavior such as this should be rewarded. That's tough, because you very well might not feel like seeing H right now, and I totally understand that.
At the same time, H has asked for a D. WTH? I see where your confusion lies, and you don't want to allow him to treat you as if you only exist at his disposal.
I think your answer to his "Why Not?" question should be an equally calm and rational response to his request, "Because you have asked for a D, and I valued our VD dinners as something between us as a married couple. I don't feel I can participate in this tradition with that bond being broken".
But then we get back to you wanting to ask him about his plans for VD. I see why you wish to check-in after last weekend - you don't know where he is at. I'm hoping you can clarify: Are you wanting your M to be repaired? Before last weekend you were so angry and ready to cut him out (again - I hear you on those emotions!). But now you seem to want to work on it if he is. What's your current feeling?
Just tossing back to him "H, I know things are not looking good right now, but I would like to know what you are planning for VD." after the emotional weekend seems passive aggressive somehow. I can't put my finger on it. Perhaps take out the part where you state how things are "not good". Don't put words in his mouth to the status - he knows that things are not good. I don't love that you are here hanging your plans on his plans after A) he asked for a D and B) You stepped away for space this weekend. Would it be too difficult for you to just wait and see if he says anything more? And if not, you can continue with your plans for dinner and a movie. If he does ask you again, you can make your decision based on the tone and intent behind his ask. Let him pursue on this one.
Just tossing back to him "H, I know things are not looking good right now, but I would like to know what you are planning for VD." after the emotional weekend seems passive aggressive somehow. I can't put my finger on it. Perhaps take out the part where you state how things are "not good".
To clarify those were my recommended words, but I did not know they already had V-D talk.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Living, your situation is really tough. Your H clearly has feelings for you, but is not wiling or able to commit at this time. You also seem to wish to have space to grow, but don't want to disengage entirely.
You’ve got it. My H has no problem telling me he loves me. I truly think he’s confused. I think he let things get so bad for him that he made it up in his mind that he was done. Then something happened. Maybe it was me working on some of the things he complained about and now he just can’t let go. When I tell him if he wants out to let me go, he says he tries but can’t because it’s too hard.
I do want to work on me. Again I failed my M in many ways and I want to be a better person. I’m committed to that.
Originally Posted by Living
Before I left for the weekend he told me he wanted to take me to dinner. Every year for VD, our tradition was to go to our favorite restaurant. So he says he wanted to take me to dinner and I told him I already had plans. He responded, I would like to take you to dinner. I responded, with I’m not sure why we would spend VD together. He says why not? Anywho, the conversation ended with him saying the invitation stands and if you don’t want to go with me, I’ll go by myself, but I would love for you to go.
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I see this as a very good convo, because H asked clearly and calmly (and rationally! Two points for rational!) for what his wish is. Personally, I feel like positive behavior such as this should be rewarded. That's tough, because you very well might not feel like seeing H right now, and I totally understand that.
I thought it was sweat that he was inviting me to dinner. It’s just that my H is a walking contradiction. You want out if the M but yet you still want us to act like we are married.
My H had gone about this entire thing the wrong way. He should have come to me and tell me that he was unhappy in the M. He should have told me the ways I was failing the M. He should have then asked me if there were ways that he was failing the M. He then should have been committed to allowing us both to work on those things and our M.
Instead we’ve been on an emotional roller coaster since BD. He’s been all over the place.
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At the same time, H has asked for a D. WTH? I see where your confusion lies, and you don't want to allow him to treat you as if you only exist at his disposal.
He has never come out and said the D word to me. He mentioned it to my daughter but not to me. To me he says he wants out of the M (I know that’s the same thing). But it’s like he can’t bring himself to say D.
When this all started he said he was confused. He said he was unhappy. He said he was going through something. His words and behavior pointed towards MLC. I’m confident that’s what is going on with him. If I had to guess, I think he’s been in MLC for at least 2 years now.
Originally he asked me to be patient with him as he tried to sort things out. Then I find out he texted some chick he met in Hawaii. After I confronted him, that’s when he said he wanted out of the M.
Once I started to DB, detach, and GAL, he pursued me like a mad man.
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I think your answer to his "Why Not?" question should be an equally calm and rational response to his request, "Because you have asked for a D, and I valued our VD dinners as something between us as a married couple. I don't feel I can participate in this tradition with that bond being broken".
In his warped mind he doesn’t see anything wrong with us going out on dates because we are still married. Sure he says the marriage is over but he feels like that doesn’t mean we can’t still do things together. Trust me he has said as much.
It’s all weird and the only thing I can say is it has to be that irrational thinking that comes from being in MLC. In the past my H would have never behaved this way.
He doesn’t want to commit to saying let’s work on our M but he’s also scared to let me go. He’s told me that he’s scared to let me go. He’s said that almost daily he thinks that he’s making a big mistake by letting me go. He said his feelings just come and go and he’s not sure why.
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But then we get back to you wanting to ask him about his plans for VD. I see why you wish to check-in after last weekend - you don't know where he is at. I'm hoping you can clarify: Are you wanting your M to be repaired? Before last weekend you were so angry and ready to cut him out (again - I hear you on those emotions!). But now you seem to want to work on it if he is. What's your current feeling?
I am angry. I’m angry that we are in this situation. I’m angry that he just can’t snap out of it and get it together. I’m also just tired. I’ve done some good at DB but I’ve also done bad at it. I’ve internalized many things he has said to me when the vets say believe half of what they say.
It’s hard for me because we still live together. We sleep in different rooms but we still see each other daily. And my H pursues me daily. So it gets tiring. In my mind I can’t understand why someone who doesn’t want a person would pursue them like a mad man. I just don’t get it.
Of course I would love to work on my M and save it. But for the last year, I’ve been doing that work on my own. And you know what??? I thought things were getting better and then my H hit me with the second BD...he said nothing has changed. All the work I was putting in and it still wasn’t good enough for him. So I’m DONE doing it on my own.
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Just tossing back to him "H, I know things are not looking good right now, but I would like to know what you are planning for VD." after the emotional weekend seems passive aggressive somehow. I can't put my finger on it. Perhaps take out the part where you state how things are "not good". Don't put words in his mouth to the status - he knows that things are not good. I don't love that you are here hanging your plans on his plans after A) he asked for a D and B) You stepped away for space this weekend. Would it be too difficult for you to just wait and see if he says anything more? And if not, you can continue with your plans for dinner and a movie. If he does ask you again, you can make your decision based on the tone and intent behind his ask. Let him pursue on this one.
Ready2Change didn’t know we had already talked about VD, when that suggestion was made. I’m not mentioning anything to him about VD. If he brings up dinner again, we will see how things go.
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Original BD: 10/26/2017 PA: 10/2017 - 11/2017 Second BD: 09/15/2018 Currently: IHS M: 42 H: 45 S: 22 lives on his own D: 18 away at college S: 15 still lives at home - the only child we share together
At the same time, H has asked for a D. WTH? I see where your confusion lies, and you don't want to allow him to treat you as if you only exist at his disposal.
He has never come out and said the D word to me. He mentioned it to my daughter but not to me. To me he says he wants out of the M (I know that’s the same thing). But it’s like he can’t bring himself to say D.
Woah, that was a major misunderstanding on my part! I think I might re-advise based on my new understanding. I thought the D word had been said to you directly. Yes, he truly is muddled.
From my vantage point of reading what you wrote, it seems that your H really is struggling with MLC as you stated. I know every one of his actions is difficult for you to deal with - the push/pull, the lack of connection, the wanting "out". I sense that you just want so badly to have an impact on him and to influence him. You can't right now. I think that's in a large part what depression is: you can't reach him right now, he's on an island. He wants to get off the island, but he doesn't have the tools yet, or maybe he hasn't had enough time to build a boat. But he is the only one who can make a move - not you.
You're doing good stuff. You really are doing a good job in all of this.
Originally Posted by Living
I’ve internalized many things he has said to me when the vets say believe half of what they say.
I'd say this is your #1 focus of personal change right now. Go back in the forum and find some readings where the MLC spouse has said some truly bonkers stuff, but later admits that feeling changed. See it from their perspective.
thats exactly what my w says. I want out of our M or im done with our M. She hasnt ever said I want a D . Again, I also know its the same thing but she cant say the word.
