My concern is injury / hurting myself—I’ve strained my calf running before, I have asthma (which is controlled, but still a thing), and I don’t want to aggravate a sore back that has been really quiet of late. Riding the stationary bike at school or at the condo’s exercise room is okay enough, but the thing about the running club is SOCIAL—just being with others, and adding some structure / accountability.
Come on man. I'm 15 years older then you and do Crossfit and run half marathons. Stationary bike is not going to cut it.
Originally Posted by Bo562
I’ll probably get killed for this, but I’m just feeling the pangs of loneliness for attention / affection / physical touch. I know that ship has sailed with W (at least for the time being, perhaps permanently, to be determined), and I’m nowhere near close to being ready for someone else anyway. It just hurts right now, you know? The word ‘pangs’ I feel is fitting—a cry from within, that is not exactly permanent, but it’s been arising every now and then (at least it’s not chronic, which I guess is good).
Bo we understand. We've been there. My ex and I were together for 24 years and had an active sex life even up to the week she moved out. You will get use to it and it will make you stronger.
I understand you are just journaling Bo but this post is weak and a lot of whining. Time to step it up man!
If I were you, I would just propose a reasonable option of WW moving out (since she is the one who wants out) and then establishing a 50/50 parenting schedule once she is settled. That is what most people do when both parents want equal involvement. The court ordered eviction is a non-issue, I think. I just have not heard of that before unless the spouse is abusive and there is a restraining order. I'm not a lawyer but it would seem to me that if that is a viable option, more people would do it. I think the important thing for you is to not get caught up in your w's timeline. It is not a legal timeline...it is just hers. I would just ignore the threats if I were you but make sure you write them down so your lawyer is fully aware of what she is saying. Sorry you are having to deal with this Bo. (((HUGS)))
Thanks, DV (((HUGS)))
I’ve asked her to move out if she is so bent on leaving, but she doesn’t want to ‘abandon’ the kids. I’d say asking that plus a 50-50 parenting schedule might be the way to go.
I like the idea of not getting caught up in W’s timeline—don’t get caught up in the W bubble, I’ve seen here. Hard not to ignore the threats, though—but I’ve been documenting as much as I can.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Bo, I see your options as follows:
3) You stay and tell her if she really wants out that bad then she needs to make arrangements herself, that you are against breaking up the M but if that is her choice you will not try to stop her.
I think 3 is really the only option you're interested in, correct? If so then prepare for her to threaten to steal the kids again. If she does then you might disclose you have a lawyer and have discussed your parental rights with him and that he has informed you that she has no right to take the kids without your permission and if she attempts to you WILL take swift legal action. I think it may be time to let her know you're not messing around here. Edit to add- I would also stress you're not accepting anything less than 50-50 custody, I think you said you were OK with that? Put her on notice that you'll fight if she proposes anything less.
Already tried #3, but it’s the only option I’m into. If this goes through, then yes, 50-50 custody would be the plan for me (at minimum—I’ll explain more below).
I also like the idea of leveling with her, and that I’m not messing around here. She’s bringing the fight to me, so might as well prove to her that I’m serious (not that I haven’t been already).
Originally Posted by Gekko
It sounds like you don't want to move out and don't want to bird-nest, so I wouldn't agree to either. Absent some bad extenuating circumstances you are probably entitled to 50/50 custody (hopefully your L has weighed in on this already) so agree to nothing less. Get what you want out of a bad sitch. Once I met with my L (very early after BD) and ran through all the scenarios that might occur and learned my rights and what a judge would probably do, I was ready for anything W would throw at me. The result is that despite being a soon-to-be LBS, I am negotiating from a position of strength. W cannot get me out of the house before D is final. She can't even get me out of the MBR. I am almost certainly going to get 50/50 custody. She is going to have to get her parents to write me a huge check to buy me out of the house and furniture when the end comes. All of this makes me feel good in the midst of a bad sitch.
If your W wants to S or D, you can't stop her, but you can control the some of the terms based on your legal rights. Her desires do not transcend your rights. Right now it seems like your immediate issues at hand can be summed up in two sentences - "I am not moving out. Nothing less than 50/50 custody is acceptable."
Thanks, Gekko. L has weighed in previously—50-50 is the starting point, and the judges here (according to her) are rather sympathetic to a father’s rights, which is nice for me.
During our initial consultation, I told L how much W travels for work (and W will be doing so in Sept. for a training for a promotion—3 months in DC / VA, and she has various things coming up over the next couple of months at least), and L told me that with W traveling, a case could be made that I could be the primary parent, especially because of how much I’ve taken on in the past for OS while W was away.
It’s interesting you mention ‘negotiating from strength.’ Obviously, this is key no matter what in life. What’s funny to me is that a couple of weeks ago when W made her last round of threats, W told me during that conversation that “you have all the power.” W had a drink in her hand during that conversation (probably not a smart idea but whatever not gonna tell her), so I’m wondering if it’s a case of “drunken words are sober thoughts.” A comment like that makes me think if she acknowledges that that is really the case—that I have way more power in this sitch, and she’s grasping at straws with her threats.
I also believe that W has a rather poor understanding of community property laws (or is just BSing me with feigned ignorance)—that all assets and debts acquired during the marriage are split evenly. Including credit cards, and her federal employee pension and retirement. While she may not be writing me a check like your STBXW will, I think she could be in for an awakening in the event we get that far.
Thanks everyone! Will see what LMFT has to say later this afternoon.
I do love running (the runner’s high is definitely real, at least for me), but running hasn’t exactly loved me back. My concern is injury / hurting myself—I’ve strained my calf running before, I have asthma (which is controlled, but still a thing), and I don’t want to aggravate a sore back that has been really quiet of late. Riding the stationary bike at school or at the condo’s exercise room is okay enough, but the thing about the running club is SOCIAL—just being with others, and adding some structure / accountability.
Don't let fear stop you from doing anything. Join the club and see how it goes. If you start dealing with a lot of injuries then you can always drop out later. I was a little worried about starting xfit because I had been having severe shoulder pain for years and have lower back issues as well. 2-1/2 years into xfit my shoulder pain is now completely gone and I have much better shoulder mobility and flexibility. My lower back issues are not completely gone but are definitely improved.
Quote
I’ll probably get killed for this, but I’m just feeling the pangs of loneliness for attention / affection / physical touch. I know that ship has sailed with W (at least for the time being, perhaps permanently, to be determined), and I’m nowhere near close to being ready for someone else anyway. It just hurts right now, you know? The word ‘pangs’ I feel is fitting—a cry from within, that is not exactly permanent, but it’s been arising every now and then (at least it’s not chronic, which I guess is good).
I understand, I think we all go through withdrawals for a while. Here's the thing though, did you really have that much of it during the M? I had those same feelings but when I really thought about it, there wasn't a lot of that closeness in the later years of my M. Sure we had sex fairly often but attention? Affection? Physical touch? Outside of sex there was very little of that. I came to the conclusion that I only missed it because it had been removed from the menu. I knew it would be back some day, either with my ex in a new-and-improved R or with someone else. So I found a way to be content with waiting. I think I've said this before in your thread but I didn't fully detach until I learned to be happy alone. And I don't mean just lived to accept being alone, but actually got to the point of enjoying and embracing being alone. I don't have my son this week, so it's just me and the dog. I get home from work and I go to xfit and work out with my friends. I get home from that and fix dinner, then decompress by doing some clay sculpting while listening to music, or do a little house cleaning while watching a recorded show. When the weather gets warmer I'll tinker with my motorcycles or strip and reseal the tikis in back or clean up the yard. I have friends that stop by, and sometimes I'll swing by their places to see what they are doing. Honestly I'm not even sure I could fit a wife into all of this, I stay pretty busy. And I am really happy! I love it this way. I have a GF but she is just one part of the elaborate tapestry that is my life, not my whole life.
So my advice is try to quit focusing on what you don't have because that just elevates it to a level of importance that it shouldn't have. Instead, focus on what you do have, or on the things you want that are within your power to achieve.
I am no expert, but week on week off sounds too long for your kids age, especially YS. Just my 2 cents.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
My H and I decided on 2-3-2... M-T, W-F, S&S and then it switches the next week so that whoever had W-F the week before, now has M-T & the weekend. We thought a week at a time might be too long. However, we will adjust if the kids want to try something different. When they are teens, I’m sure they will live where they want and for what amount of time anyway. Our kids are 11 so that will be in a couple of years.
A 2 / 2 / 3 was what was suggested from L—LMFT suggested that that might be too much change, that it’s too abrupt, and too much shuttling.
FWIW I am currently favoring a 3-4-4-3 schedule as I would have the kids the same days of the week every week, with only one day rotating. I feel like its good consistency and stability for them to know where they are on each particular day of the week. As part of this I want to split the weekends in half and get one day each. Weekends are the best quality time for me and I don't want to wait 2 weeks to get it, I want it every week. Can't say I will like not having the kids for 4 days straight every other week, but I think any sort of 2-2-3 sched might be too much back and forth for me and a 7-7 sched is way too long at my kids' ages (7 and 4) so the 3-4-4-3 is a decent in between.
Come on man. I'm 15 years older then you and do Crossfit and run half marathons. Stationary bike is not going to cut it.
You’re right. I’ll look more into the running club—I asked for specifics, though I do know when it meets. Looking forward to it. The bike is fun, but running can be good, too. I ran track 4 years in HS; I wasn’t great at it, but I totally enjoyed it—running allowed me to zone out and just think, or get away from the world. People tell me they hate running (including W) and they look at me like I’m bananas.
A couple other options for me to consider:
Swimming. Our school has a pool, and I’ve been told in the past I can use it so long as we don’t have swim / water polo teams in there practicing. I have a ton of admiration for swimmers; their strength and endurance. These are qualities that I can emulate myself if I get into this. Plus swimming is a really good life skill.
Back in undergrad, I did 3 years of martial arts (I topped out at blue belt). I tell my students about this, and my oldest did some karate classes and he enjoyed it. I do regret stopping; I was in fantastic shape, breaking boards, and my flexibility was through the roof (my track instructor for my college PE class even told me that my flexibility was really good). Every now and then I think about getting back into it—and while finding a quality instructor could be a challenge, if I’m serious about this I shouldn’t let that stop me.
Originally Posted by LH19
Bo we understand. We've been there. My ex and I were together for 24 years and had an active sex life even up to the week she moved out. You will get use to it and it will make you stronger.
I understand you are just journaling Bo but this post is weak and a lot of whining. Time to step it up man!
I am getting more used to it; every now and then it hits, but the ‘pangs’ seem less frequent to me. It doesn’t hurt as much. I’ve waited before, and I can wait again (W and I were virgins when we married, so I went 28 years—I doubt it will be another 28 years [though I could be wrong!], so I can’t let this get me down that much).
Thanks for keeping me accountable, LH. I know that wasn’t one of my better posts—I appreciate the reminder to step it up! Just keep PMA’ing, focusing on myself and the boys.
Don't let fear stop you from doing anything. Join the club and see how it goes. If you start dealing with a lot of injuries then you can always drop out later. I was a little worried about starting xfit because I had been having severe shoulder pain for years and have lower back issues as well. 2-1/2 years into xfit my shoulder pain is now completely gone and I have much better shoulder mobility and flexibility. My lower back issues are not completely gone but are definitely improved.
Exactly. Shouldn’t let fear stop me. It has in the past; though I think about the times when it hasn’t (and there have been plenty of those, too), and those were some of the best times where amazing things have happened.
I mentioned this in my post to LH, but I’ve asked for more specifics about the running club—I know when, but would like to know the where.
And you’re right—if running starts causing a succession of serious problems, then stop for a while. I’m not married to it!
I also talked about swimming or picking up marital arts again in the earlier post to LH, too. All of these are viable options, I feel.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I understand, I think we all go through withdrawals for a while. Here's the thing though, did you really have that much of it during the M? I had those same feelings but when I really thought about it, there wasn't a lot of that closeness in the later years of my M. Sure we had sex fairly often but attention? Affection? Physical touch? Outside of sex there was very little of that. I came to the conclusion that I only missed it because it had been removed from the menu. I knew it would be back some day, either with my ex in a new-and-improved R or with someone else. So I found a way to be content with waiting. I think I've said this before in your thread but I didn't fully detach until I learned to be happy alone. And I don't mean just lived to accept being alone, but actually got to the point of enjoying and embracing being alone. I don't have my son this week, so it's just me and the dog. I get home from work and I go to xfit and work out with my friends. I get home from that and fix dinner, then decompress by doing some clay sculpting while listening to music, or do a little house cleaning while watching a recorded show. When the weather gets warmer I'll tinker with my motorcycles or strip and reseal the tikis in back or clean up the yard. I have friends that stop by, and sometimes I'll swing by their places to see what they are doing. Honestly I'm not even sure I could fit a wife into all of this, I stay pretty busy. And I am really happy! I love it this way. I have a GF but she is just one part of the elaborate tapestry that is my life, not my whole life.
So my advice is try to quit focusing on what you don't have because that just elevates it to a level of importance that it shouldn't have. Instead, focus on what you do have, or on the things you want that are within your power to achieve.
I would say the last year or two there hasn’t been too too much in terms of attention / affection between W and I. Some of that is on me, I will admit. I’ve got to be honest, though—W being gone for work for overnights, or for a few days, a week or two, a month, or even 3 months (which has happened, and most likely will again), really does not help with sex / physical affection, tbh.
Because of doing NFP, we would have periodic abstinence, where we’d go without sex (prob. 10-14 days or so per month, depending). Couples who do NFP are encouraged to practice affection in other ways during the abstinent period—perhaps I didn’t do this as well as I could have, but I also didn’t want to get too close to her physically while she was ovulating because I would totally want her, and she would feel the same way. So I kept my distance to an extent.
I know you and / or others have mentioned this, and I just need to internalize this and move on, but I need to be content with waiting. I need to trust that all this (sex / affection / attention) will be back again some day—either in new-and-improved R with W, or with someone else IN TIME. And this is something that I will need to process and make my own, and that unto itself will take time (I can be a quick study, but for some things it takes me a long time to make them my own, which I’m sure has frustrated W, too). Though for me, the attention and affection with another woman in time will be relatively easy, and rather welcome if / when it happens—the issue would be sex with another woman if / when that happens.
As my sitch progresses and I see how all this plays out, I’m sure I will think long and hard about what I want from another woman if / when we D (LH mentioned in an earlier post about my using this time to really think about who I am and what I want going forward, and this will need to be part of it). My attitudes about sex are very religious-based (and I will admit that I have struggled with this and I’m sure this has contributed to my sitch in part, though I am coming around to the belief that a faithful Catholic can have a great sex life, it just requires a good amount of prayer, support, discernment and self-awareness, and that is what I want to strive for regardless of sitch with W); and for me going forward I’ll need to discern what sex and sexuality mean to me in the event that I find myself in another relationship down the line. Tbh, if W and I end up D’ing, I’d feel a whole lot better about sex with another woman if I can get this marriage annulled (once again, don’t know how likely that is, but I’d like to have hope). Paging through the discussions about dating after D, I’m not sure how encouraged I should feel about sex being relatively available if you want it and are available (I mean, unless I want to get laid, then I’m sure it’s rather easy), and how sex-soaked our culture and the dating world is. But all this is way way way down the line.
I really like what you wrote about your GF being part of the ‘elaborate tapestry’ that is your life, and is not your whole life. That sounds remarkably healthy, is beautifully phrased, and would be something that I’d like to strive for. Stop the codependency on my part. Find someone in time who will complement me; in the meantime, I need to make myself and my life so amazing (like I would tell my students ‘be your awesome, amazing selves’), that hopefully someone will want to ride along with me and share that journey.
What I do have that I need to focus on?
2 wonderful children who need their Daddy. A great, relatively stable job that I’m very good at, and that there are students who need me to be a good role model to them, to love and serve them, and that there are students who look up to me and adore me.
What would I like to achieve within my power?
Growing emotionally stronger (the forum has helped, even if I don’t always sound like it; and seeing the LMFT will hopefully help too); getting in better shape (like I said, I love how I look and I’m really proud of my body for the first time in a very long time—this weekend I hit my target weight of 175 lbs.); becoming more financially self-sufficient / stable (I know a potential D can really blow this up, but there are things I can do to put myself in somewhat better shape, and I can set goals for the future)
.....and the last thing I can think of right now that I can achieve within my power.....
Looking freaking amazing in my new, better-fitting dress shirts, starting tomorrow.
