One thing to note. I moved out of MBR after telling her what I did with her BFF. Two weeks later, she admitted that she met OM a few weeks prior. I am sleeping in spare bedroom. Not sure if I should show authority and move back into the MBR or just stay in the other for now. I just got into a therapy appointment tomorrow. My therapist can talk to her therapist since we signed paperwork. She sees her the day after. I am hoping that I can shed some light on some things that her therapist did not get told and so forth to get us to recover. But for now, i am focusing on not drinking, working out and taking care of the children.
Anthony, very good question. My personal feeling is that since you are just as in the wrong as she is, you don't really have a right to the MBR, even though you are no longer in contact with the BFF. While she met OM before she knew about the BJ, she DID see you in action with the BFF in the 3some, correct? It is hard to take the moral high ground right now, even though you want to over OM. The truth is the truth, no matter how you want to spin the timing. For now I would stay in the guest bedroom and let her have the MBR.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Just don't know how we can if she is still talking to the other guy and when I "bored" her, she just left me in a middle of a date to be with him. The next day she was apologetic and kissing butt of no divorce.
Your whole sitch is a mess, and a different kind of mess b/c of your extramarital activities.
Normally I'd say you need to get angry and enforce your boundary of not sharing your W with another person. You probably need to come clean in MC and figure out a path forward. Your W disrespected you by having some OM pick her up when she was out with you, but you guys don't have clean boundaries and communication is so mixed. You thought it was OK for you to open up the marriage so this is a mess! Sorry man! Get into the MC and say what you're saying here as nicely as you can. Don't attack, own your stuff, and don't try to railroad your W.
Therapy is not magic, and just b/c your W isn't telling the therapist everything doesn't mean much. You can rub her nose in it but if she's not ready to own her stuff then it does zero good.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Hi Anthony, well you got 2x4'd pretty good by the others but I've got to say it was well-deserved. Your W is a hot mess but you are too. Congrats for quitting drinking, that's a good start. But you've still got a lot of work to do on yourself. In the meantime you can't fix your W so you've got to leave her be and focus on you and the kids. Maybe if you clean up your act she will see how much better you are doing and will want to follow your example. But first you must set an example. I have some suggestions:
1. Join AA. I don't care whether you think you're an alcoholic or not, you need AA in a very, very bad way. Both to help you stay on track with sobriety, and to give you the tools to deal with your W's out-of-control drinking.
2. Clean up your act. Dress better, take care of your hygiene, go to bed at a reasonable time, get up early, double down on your work ethic.
3. Be not just an OK dad but an amazing, inspiring dad. Your kids have been living with two drunk, irresponsible parents for too long (your excuse that they were at the neighbors whenever you got drunk just makes me shake my head). You can't change your W but you can change yourself, and you need to be Super Dad to compensate for your W's shortcomings.
3. When you can take time from parenting, get out and GAL. I don't mean go to bars, I mean find worthwhile endeavors. Take a painting class, sculpting, ride a bicycle, build a model, just do something productive and enjoyable to you.
4. Apologize to your W and her best friend (separately) for your horrible behavior. Don't ask forgiveness, just tell them you are sorry, and WHY you are sorry, and that you are determined to turn your life around and apologizing to them for your awful behavior is your start.
5. CHANGE YOURSELF FOREVER. Don't backslide into drinking and hitting on women while married and all of that. Be a person that others admire.
6. This may be the most important one- be patient. This is going to take time. Don't expect to turn yourself around in a few weeks and make an impact. No one, especially your W, will believe your changes until you've implemented them for months and months. You've also got to be patient with your W because she is on a journey as well. You've got to let her go and let her make that journey.
First, thanks to Steve for that vote of confidence. Second, I want to encourage you, Anthony. We (well, some of us) speak rather bluntly, so I hope you won't take like we are out to see how badly we can make you feel. I was a WW when I joined the board, so I understand what it's like to get a little heat. I am delighted to see that you care for the children and that you are in counseling, etc. You have a lot on you while your W is in her emotional/mental frame of mind. The spouse who shows up on the DB board, is the one who gets the tools......and with it, comes a level of responsibility. The more given, the more expected......or something to that effect.
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the sexual pain was diagnosed and she went through so many therapies. It was so bad that she just desynthesized sex. The drinking helped her get over the anxiety. She still says she can't feel anything down there but did it for me.
I would have anxiety, too, if it hurt to have sex. Actually, when I was pregnant once, it was very painful, and I resented my H b/c he wanted to keep having sex. I also remember a time when I told him that I would have sex for him. I honestly thought I was being a good W by enduring it for him. I was so young and ignorant about men and their needs. Anyway, I am very sorry for both of you that she has this problem with sex. Does it have any emotional ties to her past relationships?
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The BFF came along after we started going over to his house and she admits she didn't like her BFF at first. However, they could talk about anything without judgment.
Did your W feel that she had been judged about something.....or was it more that she felt free to do whatever without BFF judging? Sorry for so many questions. I'm just trying to get a better feel of the sitch.
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She has no really other close friends which is why she probably gravitated to this guy when I broke that news.
Women need at least one close female friend, especially when she's still relatively young, raising kids, etc. She doesn't need male friends. There are few reasons why men would choose to being just friends with a woman. He is either very in love with his W, very religious, ................and that's about all I can think of ATM. He is her friend, only if she won't let him be more. Now that you are aware this OM has had sex with your W, don't look at him as if he is just a friend. People don't have sex with their friends. Marriages are breaking up every day b/c our society has said it is fine to be friends with the opposite sex that excludes the spouses. What it fails to mention is that it is not okay for spouses to disguise an affair (especially in the workforce) by calling it friendship. Whatever MR you have in the future (either with this W or a new one), make it known from day one that there will be no "friendships" that exclude the spouses. What about you and your friendships. Do you have male buddies to hang out together? Have there not been any couple friends for you and W?
This is just me talking, but I'm pretty sure I would not reside under the same roof while my spouse was going out to see the AP. Did your IC tell you to date your W? It sounds like something a MC would say. Are you residing under the same roof, due to financial reasons? Is she dependent on your earnings?
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I was not the most emotionally supportive the last few years.
Do you know why, or were you aware at time that you were not being emotionally supportive?
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I know I can't make her change her mind. I can only focus on myself and fix me and be there for the kids. I read the dos and don'ts and have struggled with some of them.
You can't force her to do anything she doesn't want to do, but the H can have a ton of influence on his W. You've already made some good decisions, and seeing you acting from a place of inner strength & integrity is what she needs. How do I know? B/c it is what every W needs, regardless of the mess she's made or how she may feel at the moment. Let me share with you something about women. It is wired into our DNA to look up to the men who show stability, self confidence, self respect, protection, leadership, etc. When it comes to our H, we expect him to be stronger than we are. Don't put up with our bad behavior; don't cave to our demands; and don't be outsmarted by our manipulative tricks. We are very crafty. (Your W won't tell you any of this.....so, I will.)
If there are specific rules you struggle with, let us know. Some may require a further explanation.
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Just don't know how we can if she is still talking to the other guy and when I "bored" her, she just left me in a middle of a date to be with him. The next day she was apologetic and kissing butt of no divorce.
You can't. My advice is no more dating her as long as she is contacting this other guy. You are not in competition with him! As a woman, she cannot feel true in-love feelings for more than one man at a time. She may have sex with a dozen in one night, but she only feels in-love with one. Your W will have to get this OM and any other guys completely out of her head, before she stops being "confused" about her feelings for you. Before you consider reconciliation, she needs to end things with him. If you have been guilty of inappropriate behavior (other than the admitted stuff with her BFF), you must stop it immediately. If you want to save this MR, then it needs to start with you not indulging in anymore inappropriate behavior for a M man. Don't mean to sound like I'm harping, just trying to leave no doubt as to what you will need to do.
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She told me last night that she is going to start talking to her BFF again. I am ok with that for now as it is more contact with her BFF than that guy but both people really need to be gone. I begged for months prior that my wife quit hanging out with BFF because she was toxic.
So you saw this as BFF being the lesser of the two evils? I want you to practice something. Practice not being "okay" with what you know is bad. Just b/c your W decides to poison her life, it should not be okay with you. You should have a very big problem that this BFF is in the picture. What I don't comprehend is why on earth your W wants anything to do with her, considering how her "friend" gave you a BJ behind her back. She must really be desperate for a female friend. Bad thing is......that woman is not a friend. Just make sure you remember that fact.
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I still do not know why I ever started flirting with her except I was begging for attention and her BFF was giving me the attention my wife wasn't.
Then I suggest you figure it out........and fast. Why? B/c you will repeat your mistakes if you don't know why you did them.
Keep reading the homework from Cadet. Keep posting.
P.S. Where do you turn for inner strength and guidance?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I would have anxiety, too, if it hurt to have sex. Actually, when I was pregnant once, it was very painful, and I resented my H b/c he wanted to keep having sex. I also remember a time when I told him that I would have sex for him. I honestly thought I was being a good W by enduring it for him. I was so young and ignorant about men and their needs. Anyway, I am very sorry for both of you that she has this problem with sex. Does it have any emotional ties to her past relationships?
No it doesn't. Soon after being together, she developed this issue. Now you mentioned earlier a thing that may trigger an MLC. She has mentioned this a lot lately. The yelling and screaming by me when I was drinking brought her back to the memories of her father yelling at her mother or her? Not sure but maybe that is the pas youth issue that brought on the MLC.
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Did your W feel that she had been judged about something.....or was it more that she felt free to do whatever without BFF judging? Sorry for so many questions. I'm just trying to get a better feel of the sitch.
No, he just feels comfortable around this toxic BFF because her BFF is just messed up and won't judge her and her actions. I always had problems with this BFF because she openly cheated on her husband and stayed out any time of night. My wife always admitted that her friend was messed up but her issues weren't my wife's and to just trust her. It is hard to trust knowing what type of "friend" this BFF is.
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This is just me talking, but I'm pretty sure I would not reside under the same roof while my spouse was going out to see the AP. Did your IC tell you to date your W? It sounds like something a MC would say. Are you residing under the same roof, due to financial reasons? Is she dependent on your earnings?
Well she is living there because she says she does want to work out on our relationship and for the children's sake. We are not fighting in front of the kids. Mainly, she just stays up in the room and I have been taking care of the kids until recently. She has slowly been coming down and holding conversations with me. The funny thing is that I was talking about her work and master's with her on our date and it bored her to drink and have that guy come get her. However, yesterday she talked about her work to and from dropping the kids off at a ninja class they are taking. I was engaged and listened but thought it was weird she is ok to talk about it but I couldn't talk about it 3 days ago without her drinking like mad. She depends on my income as well. I make really good money and she has a part time job in the school district. She has made it clear that she wants to stay and work on getting her master's (she just applied to an online school) and work on our marriage and go from there. I asked her what about the guy. She said that she can't let him go because if it doesn't work out with her and I, she would be hurt of letting him go. She is "cake eating". The master's would take her 2 to 3 years to complete so I don't know. We are both in IC and I have an appointment today and she has one tomorrow with her therapist. Our therapists are able to talk to each other since we signed paperwork so I can divulge information that she may hold back such as being with the guy and not just talking to him, the excessive drinking and leaving me to be with him on the date.
Also, the marriage counseling lady, I called her to make sure she has had experience in a MLC, with OM and wanted to let her know my hope is to reconcile and my wife says she is still interested in MC. I hope it isn't just words but she is really open to it. The lady said she has been doing this for 30 years and no judgement and we will work on it. She is trying ot push the date up a couple weeks to get us in mid-March instead of end of March to start.
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Do you know why, or were you aware at time that you were not being emotionally supportive?
That is why I am in IC to figure that out. I hold emotions in. I did realize the last couple months that she would try to engage into a conversation but showing me an article or something. Instead of engaging her on a discussion on it, I would just say yeah, I saw that article and end the convo. I am more cognizant that maybe she was trying to just talk and I (maybe as a guy or taking our marriage for granted) just never engaged. I am starting to engage now that I realized this as I was reading some stuff. But I hope IC will help me figure that out and be more emotionally connected to my wife as well as MC. I love my wife and I hope we can reconcile. I know it is a process.
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When it comes to our H, we expect him to be stronger than we are. Don't put up with our bad behavior; don't cave to our demands; and don't be outsmarted by our manipulative tricks. We are very crafty. (Your W won't tell you any of this.....so, I will.)
I struggle with the rules and such. if she says I have not been emotionally there for her. Being detached or not engaged with her is what I should be doing or this guy will keep getting more and more attention from her instead of me showing her that I am trying. I am not pushing it on her and if she starts talking first, I will sit and listen. I don't try to go to her to hold a conversation. The old, let her come to me for conversation. I drop everything I am doing to focus all attention on her. Other than that, this morning I had a delay for reporting to work. I said by to the kids but never said bye to her. She will reach out to me in the morning to say I hope you have a good day, etc. I will then respond back the same. But I make sure not to say good night first or anything. I am not sure if I am doing is right wrong or indifferent. But if I just treat her like a roommate, this guy will get more attention. i have noticed that she messages me a lot more lately than she did and they are happy things and not yelling or whatever. Not talking about us mostly but she might see something funny or cute on facebook and share it to me. I take those as positive but I try not to reciprocate. I just respond back to the post to say engaged and then end the convo instead of extending it just to do it.
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If you have been guilty of inappropriate behavior (other than the admitted stuff with her BFF), you must stop it immediately. If you want to save this MR, then it needs to start with you not indulging in anymore inappropriate behavior for a M man. Don't mean to sound like I'm harping, just trying to leave no doubt as to what you will need to do.
The date idea was hers. We haven't started MC and she has only had 1 IC appointment where the guy supposedly told her that she has just focused on others and she needs to focus on herself. I think she thought this meant seeing that guy and doing master's. I think she might have misinterpreted the therapist. She is a wife and a mother still so she can't just ignore her kids. I understand why she isn't happy or focusing on me but she has a responsibility for the kids still. We shall see how she progresses through her IC. My inappropriate behavior has ceased. I have not had contact with her BFF and now I been just working out or working on home imporovemnt projects and reading anything and everything I can. Five love languages, divorce remedy, etc. I am waiting on the books.
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.S. Where do you turn for inner strength and guidance?
I have some close friends I talk to. I am not religious. Spiritual but not religious if that is what you meant. A brother-in-law used this site a long time ago for an ex-wife and he has been my main person to go to as keeping me sane as he went through this before. He spoke very highly of you for helping him, Sandi! I have read most of your story and it is inspiring that the WW can come back and make it work with her husband. You need to reach out to my wife!!! haha
Sorry for the lengthy message. I am trying to point everything out and be very transparent. I know I have to fix me still.
Just responded! rollercoaster of emotions and thoughts. I was able to get into an IC today that was just scheduled last night so I feel good to get back in. A lot has happen since my last IC Feb 6th. I will be going weekly after this appointment.
Also, the marriage counseling lady, I called her to make sure she has had experience in a MLC, with OM and wanted to let her know my hope is to reconcile and my wife says she is still interested in MC. I hope it isn't just words but she is really open to it. The lady said she has been doing this for 30 years and no judgement and we will work on it. She is trying ot push the date up a couple weeks to get us in mid-March instead of end of March to start.
I encourage you to not to MC right now. First of all, you have a lot of work on yourself to do first. I do not think you are ready. If you were to consult with someone like Dr. Phil, I honestly think he'd tell you the same thing. Get yourself healthy FIRST/
Second, MC is always a bad idea unless the WAS is committed to making the MR work. Your W is not there. I think you would be crazy to think MC can help when she is leaving "dates" with you to be with an OM. WAWs in particular are notorious for agreeing to MC so they can later tell people, especially their children, "we tried EVERYTHING, including MC."
Lastly, MC is pursuit and pressure. That is the last thing you want to apply to her right now.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
We had been talking about marriage counseling way before what I did with her BFF and her meeting this guy. I even asked her if she was still interested today and she said she was. We can go to one and see how it goes and then maybe wait until we get more IC. I will have 3 to 5 IC appointments before our MC. She may have 1 to 4 depending on how she schedules her next few appointments. I spoke to the MC and she is aware of what is going on. I will take that into advisement with I talk to my IC and she can discuss with my wife's IC to see if we should hold back on MC until later.
