Rocky Road

[AnotherStander]

I went right to the drawing board to work on myself and learn what my barriers were to connection. I do certainly have my issues and I wasn't really clear on what here Love Language was. Man, am I clear now!!! She is a Quality Time gal, and loves to connect through shared experiences and quality conversation. I was NOT giving her my full undivided attention, I was not validating, I was constantly in my own head trying to figure out what to say next, I was not listening, and I was not initiating quality time experiences.

I can't really tell from reading your update if she is one foot out the door or two feet but I'm inclined to think one foot. If she's half in/half out then it might help to try and "fill her love tank". Brush up on 5LL and her LL in particular and come up with ways to do that without pursuing. Maybe you're already doing this, you said things have gotten better the last few weeks, is this one of the reasons?

I had a BAD moment yesterday... I initiated some relationship talk. UGG. It was heavy, but I did practice good listening and validating.

Can you give an example of how you are validating? Sometimes people just flat don't understand what it is, and they think they are doing it when they are not at all.

She has thawed over the last 3 weeks, but still no affection, no casual touching, no initiating "ILY", though she does freely initiate conversation and will reciprocate if I initiate casual touching.

GOOD! Those are positive signs. Perhaps you are expecting too much too soon.

There still feels like there is a bit of a wall up.

Well yes there is. It will take a while before she starts trusting you enough to lower it again.

She reported that she was still frustrated that we were here again. She noticed changes, and felt more hopeful about the M than she was 3 weeks ago. We had a phenomenal Valentine's date, we went to an escape room with the kids, and we were intimate on Valentine's Day (though she didn't get me a card or present as she usually does...and I did).

Again these are good signs. DB'ing is about baby steps, not big moves. You are seeing some great baby steps. Your big hurdle now is patience. Right now she thinks you are changing to lure her back, IE, it's all tricks. She doesn't trust your changes. You've got to show her consistent changed behavior over TIME before she'll believe it.

-If she wants to work on the M, why doesn't it look like she is from my end???

Because her working on it is different than you working on it. She's trying to learn to trust you again.

-Why is she still so cold??

She's worried you will fall back to old habits, so she's keeping her guard up.

-How do I gain more connective experiences without seeming desperate?

Don't be pushy. Give her time and space while also trying to reach out to her in her LL. Remember you have the gift of time, don't rush things or she'll run.

-Do I continue to ask her to do things?

Don't ask her out on dates. Something like the escape room is fine because it's with the kids. It's OK to ask her ALONG for stuff like that (IE, you go whether she does or not) but personal dates right now are pressure and you need to remove the pressure.

Do I continue to say ILY?

Don't initiate. If she says it then it's OK to say it back.

-Do I pull away a little and give her space? Let her come to me?

Yes.

Despite the heavy talk yesterday, she continues to initiate small talk.

No more R talk. Remove the pressure.

[Miler]

Thanks AnotherStander,

As an example of validation, when she said she was frustrated that we were here again, I basically repeated what she said, something like, "I can completely understand why you feel frustrated. I'm feel a little frustrated too. I'm sorry we are here. Is there anything else you are feeling?" She said no to that.

Yesterday was a pretty good day. She had a physical therapy appointment mid-morning, and actually texted me to tell me she was done, her hip was feeling better, and she needed to stop into a store for mittens for our youngest. I said, "Awesome, can't wait to hear about your appointment" to which she texted a few more details (She also initiated some conversation about it later in the day). I made it a point to GAL and do some shopping for myself when she returned. I work from home a couple days a week, so part of me giving her space and GAL is not being under foot all the time when she is home. She runs her own business from home, so she's home frequently.

I also didn't initiate conversation unless it was necessary (about kids pickup, sports, if I could help with dinner, etc.). She didn't initiate a ton last night. However, when we were in bed reading, she turned off the light and said, "Looks like we'll get to bed early tonight. Good night sugar." I told her good night back, but did not say ILY, which would have been our usual.

She was very chatty this morning, mainly about the weather and news. We also had a very nice conversation about window repair around the house. I agreed that her suggestion was a good idea (rather than my typical of ending with my ideas). Going to try and repeat my efforts from yesterday.

I am certainly anxious at times and just want things to feel "normal." I also know that it needs to be a new normal and that takes time. I wouldn't say she's two feet out of the door. She has told me she wants to work on the M and she is hopeful. However, there has been very little to back that up action wise other than initiating pleasant conversation. She also invited me to go run with her this morning. Unfortunately, I have a meeting, but I told her thanks for asking and I'd love to take a rain check.

I have a business trip for 4 days next week. Should I ask her for an hour or two of quality time (which is her LL) before I go or just leave it? I'd really like to connect with her so we have some good vibes/mojo to think about while I'm gone. That's probably not DB'ing at its best thought...

[AnotherStander]

As an example of validation, when she said she was frustrated that we were here again, I basically repeated what she said, something like, "I can completely understand why you feel frustrated. I'm feel a little frustrated too. I'm sorry we are here. Is there anything else you are feeling?" She said no to that.

OK that's not bad but as I suspected you could use some tweaking there. First, have you read the validation thread that Cadet posted early in your thread? If not then please do so. OK so briefly, validation is seeking to discover how someone is feeling and then acknowledging their feelings. It is HER feelings so don't say "I can completely understand" because she will think "you have no idea how I feel, how can you understand what it's like to be in my place???" So she says she is frustrated you're here again, you seek out her feelings- "you do seem frustrated, how does that make you feel?" Whatever she says- angry, sad, etc. do not downplay her feelings. Acknowledge them. "I am sorry you're angry and frustrated about this situation, it must be difficult to go through this again." You are not agreeing/ disagreeing/ negotiating/ explaining/ etc. You are simply acknowledging her feelings, which at the end of the day is all she wants from you.

I'm feel a little frustrated too.

Do not ever turn it into how YOU are feeling. You are seeking to understand and acknowledge HER feelings. Try to think of yourself like a counselor, if you went to a counselor they would offer you a lot of validation but they would never start talking about how THEY feel, right? Because then you would think "you're just making this about you". It comes off as selfish.

I made it a point to GAL and do some shopping for myself when she returned. I work from home a couple days a week, so part of me giving her space and GAL is not being under foot all the time when she is home. She runs her own business from home, so she's home frequently.

I also didn't initiate conversation unless it was necessary (about kids pickup, sports, if I could help with dinner, etc.). She didn't initiate a ton last night. However, when we were in bed reading, she turned off the light and said, "Looks like we'll get to bed early tonight. Good night sugar." I told her good night back, but did not say ILY, which would have been our usual.

Great!

She has told me she wants to work on the M and she is hopeful. However, there has been very little to back that up action wise other than initiating pleasant conversation.

Lower your expectations. You're not going to see any bold moves from her, the small baby steps she's doing are the most you can hope for right now. Give her time to believe your changes. It sounds like things are actually going pretty well, I think you just need to reign in your expectations that things will be "normal" quickly.

I have a business trip for 4 days next week. Should I ask her for an hour or two of quality time (which is her LL) before I go or just leave it? I'd really like to connect with her so we have some good vibes/mojo to think about while I'm gone. That's probably not DB'ing at its best thought...

Don't ask for "quality time". Instead, come up with some kind of QT thing to do. Also Michele suggests to invite her along to something you are doing whether she goes or not rather than asking her out. So for example you might say "hey I think I'll go grab some ice cream at Happy Happy Joy Joy (or coffee, or dinner or whatever) tomorrow, do you want to come along? If she says no then you go anyway. That way it feels less like a date and that's less pressure on her.

[Miler]

These are all great points Stander!

Yeah, the validation is a tricky beast. I wanted her to know to know that I got the frustration part and I was experience it too. Previously, I would have acted as though I didn't think anything was wrong and that I was never on the same page as her. I wanted it to be a 180, but this messed up the validation part .

Obviously my anxiety right now stems from expectations and feeling like if she says she wants to work on the M, then there should be outwards signs of that. I appreciate you keeping me grounded on lowering my expectations, the fact that we are both on our own time frames, and I understand that she is "tired of being the one trying to connect, do things together, initiating ILYs." I am having a clear internal battle with the fact that she feels like I need to be the one initiating things, making her feel loved, etc...which is almost opposite of DBing. She also doesn't seem terribly receptive to it right now, despite saying this is what I haven'y been doing and that she's tired of initiating to no response. I think I'll stick to DBing as we seem to be taking baby steps forward, which is WAY better than stalling or going backwards.

Interestingly, we we had the R talk 2 days ago, she said, "I think you are finally feeling the way I've felt for the last 20 years." It's as if subconsciously, she wants me to wallow in this for a while...which I probably do in fact need to.

Thanks again guys and gals

[Miler]

Well, waiting for my meeting to start. We had small talk this morning, but for the most part, she kept to the kitchen preparing dinner in the crock pot...on and off the phone (Instagram account we share), and then to the breakfast table to answer work emails. I kept to myself in the living room working on a few documents. It of course bothered me that she was on her phone rather than wanting to talk to me .

She went to look outside and its been raining for 4-5 days straight. She then walked into the living room and said, "Are those the new jeans you bought yesterday?" They look good and touched my thigh (in a very benign way). I said thanks. She then said, running in this crappy weather for the last few days doesn't have me terribly motivated to get out there again today. I said, yeah, that's got to be brutal running in that wet cold all the time. She looked at me with a down face...so I said, Hey, I'm really proud of you for staying so committed and getting out there!. She said, hey Thanks, I appreciate that! I turned away and said "I'm off to my meeting. She told me to have a good meeting and gave me a kiss on the lips on the way out. Obviously, I reciprocated the kiss, but didn't say ILY or make it into anything. I walked out... couldn't help but think and get into an anxiety state on my drive. Uggg... I HATE LIMBO!!! For all those out there with me, welcome...we can do this! Be PATIENT!

[Miler]

Having trouble sleeping for sure. Such an emotional roller coaster. I'm trying not to have my expectations high. After what was such a good day full of talking, laughter, and even a kiss, tonight she just seemed shut off. I just have such a hard time dealing with the relative indifference, her not wearing her wedding ring (despite telling her how it made me feel last time we talked about the R), and her stating that she wants to work on things and she is hopeful about our marriage. I know, I'm being super selfish and impatient, but I'd rather get my feelings and thought out here rather than saying something stupid or having another R talk. I feel like taking off my wedding ring and being gone for most of the day tomorrow...but I know that probably just childish behavior trying to control her actions/thoughts. UGGG.

[DejaVu6]

Miler...patience...patience. Small steps eventually lead to big change. Focus on you and GAL. Do not pressure her. It will only push her away. Take the win. Resist the urge to control or force the issue. Sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing. Good for you for posting instead of acting and for recognizing that taking your ring off and leaving for most of the day is an attempt to control her. Okay to be gone for most of the day though. Do something fun!

[Miler]

Thanks Dejavu,

Glad I came downstairs and hit the forum. Just needed to get that out. I ultimately went back to the MBR and fell asleep. Still tossed and turned, but glad I didn't do anything stupid. I use my iPad to take notes, read a daily check list and affirmation I set up last week, and read Sandi's rule and the detachment page. Helps me get in the right frame of mind. We had some quality conversation this morning, but I didn't linger too long. Started some laundry and took the boys to school. We I came home, she was working on a photo project for D's high school graduation. We had a good laugh at some cute pictures, but I moved on.

I also started reading Seven Secrets to Healthy, Happy Relationships. It's very good and has some excellent principles that echo the DB process. First one is Self Love and start with you. Second one is Freedom, which is detachment/differentiation in relationships. That's a scary one, but give you excellent feedback on how it can make a relationship strong and happy. The third one is Awareness. It really is being aware of all the stories we tell ourselves in our heads that lead to anxiety, shame, and insecurities in our relationships (whether you are happily married or DBing). That's where I am in the book. Its a very good supplement to DB and DR. Just wanted to pass that along and hope everyone is having a good day.

[SteveLW]

Miler, hang in there. You are doing a lot of good things. Good job on the validation on the running. And also good job on coming here when you can't sleep. I did that a lot too. I would read sandi's rules and posts, while my WW slept next to me like a rock.

There is light at the end of the tunnel!

[Miler]

Thanks Steve! I reread your response to my original post twice a day...once in the morning and once I get home from work. It is extremely helpful. Honestly, I seem to vacillate between being detached and content with me and feeling and anxious and overwhelmed in a 2-3 hour period. I am determined if anything. I continue to be very upbeat, show gratitude, validate, and just listen with no “trying to help”. You could tell she was a little thrown off by this after 2-3 days, but las few days, she validates me, and we seems to share “emotion” though talking. Like the running piece yesterday. And today, her parent accepted an offer on their house and I was very excited for them and said it was great news. She had a big smile on her face and said, I know right! It really is good for them. I said, “I’m so happy for you guys and see that you are happy too! That’s awesome. Then left it there and went up to shower . BTW, before our recent bomb, we used to ask each other to shower together whenever one of us was heading up.

I’ll keep plugging, focusing on me, my happiness, detaching, and learning/reading on how to better communicate in relationships!