I just don't want you to get false hopes. And waste time and money. MC can work in certain cases, but I don't think your sitch is ready for it. But yes, discuss with the IC, great idea.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
A brother-in-law used this site a long time ago for an ex-wife and he has been my main person to go to as keeping me sane as he went through this before. He spoke very highly of you for helping him, Sandi! I have read most of your story and it is inspiring that the WW can come back and make it work with her husband. You need to reach out to my wife!!! haha
Oh wow! Well, thanks to your BIL and the kind words.
When I joined the board, I joined the MLC forum b/c I thought I surely must be experiencing one. Imagine how I felt when some posters informed me I was past the age to have a MLC! All I knew was that I was in some type of crisis like nothing I had ever experienced, and I needed help. I think your W is crisis, whether it's of her own making or something else.
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Now you mentioned earlier a thing that may trigger an MLC. She has mentioned this a lot lately. The yelling and screaming by me when I was drinking brought her back to the memories of her father yelling at her mother or her? Not sure but maybe that is the pas youth issue that brought on the MLC.
She's mentioning the topic, mid-life crises....or do you mean she's talking of how her father yelled at her mom? Was her father an alcoholic or did he abuse his W and/or kids? It may have brought back some bad memories for her. I am no expert on MLC, but from what I understand, something really bad has happened to her when she was a child or teenager....maybe even in her years. It could be physical abuse, sexual molestation, rape, or some other traumatic experience for which she did not get proper healing. I've read of cases where it was swept under the rug, not to be talked about anymore. Then when the girl grows up, something happens that throws her into an emotional crises b/c she did not heal from the traumatic experience.
Whenever a newcomer reads the description of a WAW. WW. and MLC.....the behavior sounds similar. This is just my take on it when trying to know the difference in the categories. (Michele doesn't separate the WW/WAW, so bear that in mind when reading her books/articles.)
The WAW doesn't have selfish motives for leaving a bad situation. She doesn't have a secret agenda (i.e. OM) There is no type of an affair. Walking away from her H is more like an act of survival. She may have to leave due to something beyond her control. He is the culprit behind her decision to leave (i;e. abuse, imprisonment, abandonment, nonsupport, infidelity, substance abuse, endangerment, etc.). She has to protect and provide for herself and her children, and therefore, walks away from the H that is not providing the basic needs for his family. She won't abandon her children. Walking away from an intolerable situation is not her acting out of selfishness. She is not trying to "find herself". She doesn't start behaving like Girls Gone Wild,staying out all night and acting as if she were not a W and mother. She may make improvements in her life, but she doesn't act like a totally different personality, such as you might find in the WW & MCLW. The WAW uses logic and the reality of her situation to determine her decisions. She is not acting on a fantasy.
The W in MLC suffers from some personal, traumatic experience in her youth, for which she did not receive healing. That traumatic experience had nothing to do with her H. In other words, her issues stem from something that happened in her past......not the present. It was something specific and horrible. At some point in her adult years, an event will happen that throws her into a state of emotional crisis b/c of the traumatic experience she suffered in the past. She may start living as though she fears getting older (or fears showing her true age). She may start dressing in younger styles, have plastic surgery, get new hair color, apply more cosmetics, lose weight......anything to appear younger. She will often hang out with younger & wilder friends who are risk-takers. To her, it all represents youth. It is common for women in MLC to have an affair. MLC can last for years. Although her behavior may look very similar to that of the WW, they are different people. The W in MLC is driven by fear.
The WW is a different breed Everything is about her. If she can't benefit from it, then she's not interested. Selfishness motivates her. She operates on whatever emotion she may be having at the moment. The H is her target of blame for everything wrong in her life. He may not be aware that the MR is in serious trouble until she drop the bomb. She may give excuses of needing "space" or needs "to find herself". What she really wants is freedom. Freedom to do whatever she wants, without responsibilities or consequences. The WW is angry. She has held resentment and disrespect for her H in her heart, and her rebellion against her H and the MR goes into overdrive. The WW seems to be in a fog, b/c she .thrives on a fantasy. When she drops the bomb, she already has a secret agenda. She either has an OM, or she is on the prowl for one. She may display behavior typical of Girls Gone Wild. She wants no responsibility associated with her marriage, and sometime.....with her own children. Some WW's will choose to abandon her little children, in order to pursue her "happiness". Like the MLCW, she will dress younger/sexier, take more time with cosmetics and hair styles. She may get plastic surgery, lose weight, work out, etc. She will drop family & friends who do not support her decisions, and she'll find new friends who are as wayward as she. Waywardness can last a short period or a long time. It depends on how quickly and severe she has to suffer consequences due her bad decisions. The WW is driven by her self-centered mindset.
WW's can be extremely manipulative. Therefore, don't bite the apple too quickly. Know what I mean? Whichever it is, she needs to be held accountable for her current behavior. I am very concerned how you see yourself competing with this OM. Don't make allowances for bad behavior based on your fear of losing her to some OM who has no problem sleeping with a M woman. Find someone who has a higher code of conduct, if you need someone to guide your decisions.
I understand that you are afraid of losing her. Do you know that she will sense that fear and play on it? She will play both of you guys. She'll want the one who isn't afraid to dump her......much less, lose her. Find your moral code, and be a man of honor. Don't be afraid to require a woman of high moral standards......especially when you are married to her. You don't have to put up with infidelity. I'm not trying to push you to divorce court. I want you to think about your self respect, b/c I have to wonder when you are afraid of losing a cheating spouse. I know you see it as love, but at what price? I just want you to respect yourself more, okay? ((hugs)). Next time, maybe we can discuss boundaries, but in order to set boundaries, you have to know where you draw the line. So be thinking about it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
A brother-in-law used this site a long time ago for an ex-wife and he has been my main person to go to as keeping me sane as he went through this before. He spoke very highly of you for helping him, Sandi! I have read most of your story and it is inspiring that the WW can come back and make it work with her husband. You need to reach out to my wife!!! haha
Oh wow! Well, thanks to your BIL and the kind words.
When I joined the board, I joined the MLC forum b/c I thought I surely must be experiencing one. Imagine how I felt when some posters informed me I was past the age to have a MLC! All I knew was that I was in some type of crisis like nothing I had ever experienced, and I needed help. I think your W is crisis, whether it's of her own making or something else.
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Now you mentioned earlier a thing that may trigger an MLC. She has mentioned this a lot lately. The yelling and screaming by me when I was drinking brought her back to the memories of her father yelling at her mother or her? Not sure but maybe that is the pas youth issue that brought on the MLC.
She's mentioning the topic, mid-life crises....or do you mean she's talking of how her father yelled at her mom? Was her father an alcoholic or did he abuse his W and/or kids? It may have brought back some bad memories for her. I am no expert on MLC, but from what I understand, something really bad has happened to her when she was a child or teenager....maybe even in her years. It could be physical abuse, sexual molestation, rape, or some other traumatic experience for which she did not get proper healing. I've read of cases where it was swept under the rug, not to be talked about anymore. Then when the girl grows up, something happens that throws her into an emotional crises b/c she did not heal from the traumatic experience.
Whenever a newcomer reads the description of a WAW. WW. and MLC.....the behavior sounds similar. This is just my take on it when trying to know the difference in the categories. (Michele doesn't separate the WW/WAW, so bear that in mind when reading her books/articles.)
The WAW doesn't have selfish motives for leaving a bad situation. She doesn't have a secret agenda (i.e. OM) There is no type of an affair. Walking away from her H is more like an act of survival. She may have to leave due to something beyond her control. He is the culprit behind her decision to leave (i;e. abuse, imprisonment, abandonment, nonsupport, infidelity, substance abuse, endangerment, etc.). She has to protect and provide for herself and her children, and therefore, walks away from the H that is not providing the basic needs for his family. She won't abandon her children. Walking away from an intolerable situation is not her acting out of selfishness. She is not trying to "find herself". She doesn't start behaving like Girls Gone Wild,staying out all night and acting as if she were not a W and mother. She may make improvements in her life, but she doesn't act like a totally different personality, such as you might find in the WW & MCLW. The WAW uses logic and the reality of her situation to determine her decisions. She is not acting on a fantasy.
The W in MLC suffers from some personal, traumatic experience in her youth, for which she did not receive healing. That traumatic experience had nothing to do with her H. In other words, her issues stem from something that happened in her past......not the present. It was something specific and horrible. At some point in her adult years, an event will happen that throws her into a state of emotional crisis b/c of the traumatic experience she suffered in the past. She may start living as though she fears getting older (or fears showing her true age). She may start dressing in younger styles, have plastic surgery, get new hair color, apply more cosmetics, lose weight......anything to appear younger. She will often hang out with younger & wilder friends who are risk-takers. To her, it all represents youth. It is common for women in MLC to have an affair. MLC can last for years. Although her behavior may look very similar to that of the WW, they are different people. The W in MLC is driven by fear.
The WW is a different breed Everything is about her. If she can't benefit from it, then she's not interested. Selfishness motivates her. She operates on whatever emotion she may be having at the moment. The H is her target of blame for everything wrong in her life. He may not be aware that the MR is in serious trouble until she drop the bomb. She may give excuses of needing "space" or needs "to find herself". What she really wants is freedom. Freedom to do whatever she wants, without responsibilities or consequences. The WW is angry. She has held resentment and disrespect for her H in her heart, and her rebellion against her H and the MR goes into overdrive. The WW seems to be in a fog, b/c she .thrives on a fantasy. When she drops the bomb, she already has a secret agenda. She either has an OM, or she is on the prowl for one. She may display behavior typical of Girls Gone Wild. She wants no responsibility associated with her marriage, and sometime.....with her own children. Some WW's will choose to abandon her little children, in order to pursue her "happiness". Like the MLCW, she will dress younger/sexier, take more time with cosmetics and hair styles. She may get plastic surgery, lose weight, work out, etc. She will drop family & friends who do not support her decisions, and she'll find new friends who are as wayward as she. Waywardness can last a short period or a long time. It depends on how quickly and severe she has to suffer consequences due her bad decisions. The WW is driven by her self-centered mindset.
WW's can be extremely manipulative. Therefore, don't bite the apple too quickly. Know what I mean? Whichever it is, she needs to be held accountable for her current behavior. I am very concerned how you see yourself competing with this OM. Don't make allowances for bad behavior based on your fear of losing her to some OM who has no problem sleeping with a M woman. Find someone who has a higher code of conduct, if you need someone to guide your decisions.
I understand that you are afraid of losing her. Do you know that she will sense that fear and play on it? She will play both of you guys. She'll want the one who isn't afraid to dump her......much less, lose her. Find your moral code, and be a man of honor. Don't be afraid to require a woman of high moral standards......especially when you are married to her. You don't have to put up with infidelity. I'm not trying to push you to divorce court. I want you to think about your self respect, b/c I have to wonder when you are afraid of losing a cheating spouse. I know you see it as love, but at what price? I just want you to respect yourself more, okay? ((hugs)). Next time, maybe we can discuss boundaries, but in order to set boundaries, you have to know where you draw the line. So be thinking about it.
Sandi your posts are truly amazing. I read your posts on ww,mlc,waw and I Still cannot figure out what my w is though. I am thinking ww or mlc, but whatever she is your insight is incredible.
I think I just set those boundaries today and she is pissed. I told her that I can’t reconcile with her and such if she continues to talk to the OM. She got upset and brought up what I did with her BFF. At this point I am just going to keep doing detachment and focus on me. Not sure what else to do. I told her if she goes and stays the night again it is over. She wanted to call him a friend. I said that ended when you let him sleep with you.
She hates her parents now singebininvolved them. I think she is WW not MLC based on what you wrote. She mentioned that if she was financially better off she would just live alone and try to work on our relationship. But she and I have trust issues to each other. Maybe that could be resolved in MC?
Sorry to hear of your sitch. That is one wild ride. I am glad you are doing what you need to do to be a better person and father, then working on being a better H as well. Sandi is giving you the 411 on being a better MAN.
I haven't gone to IC or MC so I don't know the benefits of them, but what are you trying to use MC for? Wouldn't you expect the WW will use MC for some selfish, manipulative reasons?
From what Sandi has said and everything thing else out there that supports it, your WW needs to be remorseful and really, really want to work on saving the marriage. I think then, MC would be a great tool to help bridge the connection and work things out.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
So I am at a loss of what to do. How the sitch started yesterday. She came into my room and asked how my appointment went. I told her that I had a lot to process. I told her that I told my IC about what happen on Saturday and how she is still seeing the OM.
The IC had told me to set up boundaries which I told my W about. She then brought up her BFF and about that stuff. Then she started talking about other problems, like how did I know on the day before Saturday that there was a steak ordered (she supposedly went out with a GF). I was in her purse grabbing the check book and locking credit cards since she left with the guy. I was mad. She is so upset of me "snooping" and thinks it is worse than her leaving me in the middle of a date.
She then mentioned that I have so many trust issues and the stuff I put her through the last 1.5 years. Then she said thinking back, 4 years ago we started drifting away. She thought she would not find anyone better so just dealt with it. She said that there are things she don't like about the OM but she loves him. If she was financially able to, she would move out and then try to work on our marriage.
Are you guys saying I should threaten divorce? Cancel MC? I put up a strong front that I am not ok with her going to go see him and leaving. She says she does not plan on that. I told her that she did it Saturday so it could happen again. She got so pissed that she deleted me off of Facebook and unfriended me on SnapChat. Not sure what to do.
Her father wants me to go get a divorce consultation and put the receipt on the counter to scare her. I do not know if that is a wise choice. I am at a lost on what to do. She is just blaming me for every little thing that has or is happening. She also started drinking after our "discussion". She keeps saying that she wants to work it out for the sake of the children but believes I am too messed up to work it out. UGH!!!
Anthony- FULL STOP. You are spinning out of control. You are not listening to us, you are not implementing DR and what we are telling you here. We can only lay the tools in front of you, if you don't pick them up and use them then you will never even begin to repair your M.
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How the sitch started yesterday. She came into my room and asked how my appointment went. I told her that I had a lot to process. I told her that I told my IC about what happen on Saturday and how she is still seeing the OM.
DO NOT tell her about discussions you have with your IC. If she asks then just say "I'm learning that I have a lot to work on, but I'm hopeful I can make some very positive changes in my life." Period, end of discussion.
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The IC had told me to set up boundaries which I told my W about. She then brought up her BFF and about that stuff. Then she started talking about other problems, like how did I know on the day before Saturday that there was a steak ordered (she supposedly went out with a GF). I was in her purse grabbing the check book and locking credit cards since she left with the guy. I was mad. She is so upset of me "snooping" and thinks it is worse than her leaving me in the middle of a date.
First, stop snooping. Second, read up on LISTENING and VALIDATING. Go back to the links Cadet posted to you. Read them over and over again.
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Are you guys saying I should threaten divorce?
No.
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Cancel MC?
If you have MC set up already then go. But don't expect it to make a difference.
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Her father wants me to go get a divorce consultation and put the receipt on the counter to scare her.
No, "tricks" won't work, she'll see right through them. First, quit talking to HER father about your sitch. You may think he's on your side but at the end of the day blood is thicker than water. Second, DO NOT do things to try and get a reaction out of her. That just makes you look desperate and needy.
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She got so pissed that she deleted me off of Facebook and unfriended me on SnapChat. Not sure what to do.
Here is what you do, I posted it, you ignored it:
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
1. Join AA. I don't care whether you think you're an alcoholic or not, you need AA in a very, very bad way. Both to help you stay on track with sobriety, and to give you the tools to deal with your W's out-of-control drinking.
2. Clean up your act. Dress better, take care of your hygiene, go to bed at a reasonable time, get up early, double down on your work ethic.
3. Be not just an OK dad but an amazing, inspiring dad. Your kids have been living with two drunk, irresponsible parents for too long (your excuse that they were at the neighbors whenever you got drunk just makes me shake my head). You can't change your W but you can change yourself, and you need to be Super Dad to compensate for your W's shortcomings.
3. When you can take time from parenting, get out and GAL. I don't mean go to bars, I mean find worthwhile endeavors. Take a painting class, sculpting, ride a bicycle, build a model, just do something productive and enjoyable to you.
4. Apologize to your W and her best friend (separately) for your horrible behavior. Don't ask forgiveness, just tell them you are sorry, and WHY you are sorry, and that you are determined to turn your life around and apologizing to them for your awful behavior is your start.
5. CHANGE YOURSELF FOREVER. Don't backslide into drinking and hitting on women while married and all of that. Be a person that others admire.
6. This may be the most important one- be patient. This is going to take time. Don't expect to turn yourself around in a few weeks and make an impact. No one, especially your W, will believe your changes until you've implemented them for months and months. You've also got to be patient with your W because she is on a journey as well. You've got to let her go and let her make that journey.
a lot of craziness goes on in these situations, as you well know. Try to be calm, I'd advise you to keep reading those links on page 1. You need to try to set your emotions aside for now and think logically.
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She is so upset of me "snooping" and thinks it is worse than her leaving me in the middle of a date.
Yeaaaa that's a negative, ghostrider. But you guys don't need to be comparing misdeeds and hurt caused. You both have done enough. Stop the bleeding!
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She then brought up her BFF and about that stuff.
Yea, she has a point with this stuff. You have to listen, validate, and understand that it probably did/does hurt her.
Also, I applaud you for being open and honest enough to post this here.
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She said that there are things she don't like about the OM but she loves him. If she was financially able to, she would move out and then try to work on our marriage.
This is your W. You should be pissed, you should not listen to this kind of talk, you should ask her to leave the house. It's BS that you have to share a house with your W who is in love with someone but only stays in the house b/c she needs your money. And how, pray tell, does a W "work on her marriage" when she is staying with an OM? JFC.
Don't worry about the social media, stay off of it. You know she's cheated, so stop snooping - there's nothing more to be learned.
Stop talking to her parents, they're ultimately on her side. Do they know you slept with someone else too? You need to work on detaching, need to not let everything she says affect you. If she wanted to work on it she'd dump the OM and own up to her crap but she's not there yet. Keep posting buddy and think about what we're saying. Good luck.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I am trying to detach but it is hard, really hard. This whole thing the past 3 weeks has been a nightmare that I am just trying to wake up from. I don't know how to set boundaries. I don't want a divorce. I don't want to move out as she is the one deciding to be with this guy and I am trying to be a better changed person. She says that this isn't about me or the OM. If she had her way, she would live alone and work on "our relationship". If I kick her out or the house, she goes to the OM more than likely. Another reason is the three children. She says she wants to try and work it out for the children. She just keeps saying she don't think it will work but she is willing to try. I know, believe nothing they say and 50% of what they do. I don't know. I have another IC on Monday and she has one tonight. See how those go and continue to work on myself via IC.
All I knew was that I was in some type of crisis like nothing I had ever experienced, and I needed help. I think your W is crisis, whether it's of her own making or something else.