I'm starting to, R2C. I have a few social events that will give me an opportunity to work on this skill.
She was honest, and so was I. I took rejection with grace (I think). We hung out under the guise as friends but it really felt like a date. I almost went in for the kiss but had to pull back a couple of time because of her request to keep it friendly and casual.
I'll try to post further details. Based on the feedback of what I described, I was told that I was being played with and there were a lot of red flags. I got further advice from my uncle and he told me that she may have been testing me (like you said).
I would keep it playful. flirting. challenging. seductive. try to make her laugh. indirect. Build up the tension.
Off the top of my head, I would flip the "Right now" or flip the "romantic" or flip the "I Can't"
Woman: 'I cannot pursue anything romantic right now".
Eye contact, body language, great smile. Twinkle in your eyes. Alpha: "No need to rush thing, I just want to enjoy your company tonight. We can worry about the romance tomorrow."
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I would keep it playful. flirting. challenging. seductive. try to make her laugh. indirect. Build up the tension.
Off the top of my head, I would flip the "Right now" or flip the "romantic" or flip the "I Can't"
Woman: 'I cannot pursue anything romantic right now".
Eye contact, body language, great smile. Twinkle in your eyes. Alpha: "No need to rush thing, I just want to enjoy your company tonight. We can worry about the romance tomorrow."
I actually did something really similar to that, R2C. I'm excited to share the details once I get some free time.
I'm getting it. I'm starting to understand it. I'm on my way to being an alpha.
Sandi, if you are reading this, you told me that if I were to start dating again, we should talk.
I am still developing a mental picture of you. I see you as being driven by your goals. Saying that I needed to talk to you when you were ready to date again, came after I learned that you met your W on a dating site (which is okay) and upon meeting her in person the first time........you immediately took her to a hotel and had sex. I think your goal was to find a wife. I can't remember how long the two of you wrote back and forth before meeting in person, but picking her up and going to a hotel and having sex was moving at microwave speed, IMHO.
I tried to find the posts that described your date with this new woman, but I never found it. Just by reading how you took her rejection gracefully, I have to think you went into the date emotionally moving too fast, too heavy. or too serious. I'd guess you were acting on the new high feelings of confidence (not to mention your span of time without a woman giving you sex). Unlike your W, this woman apparently was not ready to jump into physical affection right away, but I need to read about what happened.
A lot of women are much more forward than they were in my dating years. Some are eager to have sex. However, there are women who want to get to know the man more, and be in his presence a while before she's comfortable with physical touching. Women will either want romance, or they just want to hang out with the guy. What was your goal when you took the woman out? Were you going out with her to have sex? Did you want to go on the date b/c you are looking for W#2? Do you see the purpose of a date is having sex?
I wonder, with you not feeling experienced in the dating field, if you came off being too forward or fast, due to you trying to imitate someone else? .
Before I say anything else, I want to hear what happened. Can you point me to the post, or briefly explain about her "rejection"?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I have not detailed my first foray with this woman. It's a long one and I'm trying to find time to sit down and type it all out.
I do want to express that I know I was moving too fast with her. To be honest, in my limited experience in dating, that is all I knew. I have been asking, watching videos, reading, on how to slow down. But it may be that me asking for assistance on slowing down is a vague request and I would need to provide more details to get some clarification.
It's a little funny that you mention my lack of sex. It has been 14 months and counting. I have had desperate moments and attempted to find (and fail) hook-ups.
AFAIK as my WW goes. I felt like she was a great opportunity and she was reciprocating as fast as I could communicate. We talked for about three weeks before she asked me to fly up to meet her.
I still feel like this person is interested in me and I think she fell for me hard as well. I don't know where it will go. I just know that wherever it goes I need to do it with care. I have made a promise to myself that my second opportunity with someone will be the last. I want to go in prepared to succeed at that. And I know that I am well on my way.
I have some time right now to type out the chain of events that have occurred to today.
The Meetup I received an alert that there was a social meetup that Friday evening the Wednesday before. Conveniently, grandma was available to watch D5, so I had the opportunity to make the most of my free evening if I chose to spend it out of the house. And I took advantage. I put on my night-out outfit (dark jeans, brown oxford shoes, tan vest, blue shirt, brown sports coat) and headed into the city with no expectations for anything except for continuing to work on my socializing and my attraction game. Probably the GAL activity I have been needing to do for months.
Once I got there, I dove right in and just started to socialize. I talked to a group of older women about travel and kept up a half hour conversation with an older woman. There was not any chemistry or sparks that flew between us, but there was a certain level of attraction that I sensed from her.
I excused myself to get a drink from the bar. As I approached the bar, a tall, younger woman followed behind me and ordered a drink for herself. While we waiting for our drinks, we started talking. Within the first five minutes, I sensed a STRONG amount of attraction from her. She introduced herself and I did the same. Once we got our drinks, we stayed at the bar and continued to talk. After about a half hour or so, I asked that if could sit down and continue to talk. She suggested to go the group and converse there. For the next three or so hours we were taking to each other a lot. Stuff about where we were from, some of the stuff we like and whatnot. The attraction was high (or she may be set up bait to trap me?) when she showed me some of her music on her phone that she likes and suggested that we go see something together (Moment 1). She got hungry and ordered some food from the bar. She brought it back and offered to share with me (Moment 2?). We continued and she was touching me on my arm, playing with her jewelry, basically stuff showing me that there was a high level of interest. During the evening I had to use the restroom (weightlifing requires a lot of water consumption, apparently) a couple of times. The second time I got up, she asked me if I was leaving. I said no. In my mind I was going to ask this person out. I had to. Finally, she said she had to go home as she had some social stuff to do the next day. I told her that I would walk her out to her car. We made small talk briefly and then I told that I really enjoy talking to her and that I would like to see her again. She agrees and gives me her phone number and told me of a day she is available. I agree to the day and told her I would call her with the place sometime over the weekend. We hug and go to our homes.
The leadup I called her two days later and left a short message confirming our date and location. Three hours later, D5 asked to talk to her mom. I dialed and put the phone on speaker for her to talk. I then leave the room. 10 minutes later the conversation stops and I hear a dialtone. Sensing something was off I got up and checked to see who she was calling. She was calling my date. I hungup quickly. She called back sounding irritated. I fumbled an apology and hung up. I smiled and told my D5 that she may have inadvertently cancelled my date. D5 cried and I told her that she doesn't have to be sorry. It was an accident. Some ice cream and snuggles later, we go about our evening. I accept the fact that my chances with her are over and I just need to move on.
The next morning, I still feel a little down about a potential opportunity gone.
She then texts me to remind me who she was and were we met (I remember). She then agrees to the date and confirms plans for the next day. Woohoo!
I go home that evening and get my outfit ready to meet her and put it in my car. The next day rolls around and I heard nothing from her, which I expected.
Five hours before we were supposed to meet, she texts me telling me she is feeling sick and she cannot make it. Ok. It happens. I give her the benefit of the doubt and ask if she wants to reschedule to which I did. The next attempt would be a week and a half away.
I was a little bummed that she cancelled but I told myself that I was going to get dressed and go out anyway, which I did. And I had a pretty good time. It was an uneventful evening, but very very cold. In the back of my mind, I considered that a blessing, since I don't think she would have enjoyed herself in that weather. Bullet dodged.
Attempt two The week and a half goes by and we don't chat with each other. As far as I was concerned, the date was happening until she tells me it wasn't. I had my set of nice clothes I changed into the evening of and headed out, expecting her to be there. I told myself that if she ghosts me, I will have a good time nonetheless. So either way, I win.
I get into the city and I get a message from her informing me that she has to cancel again. This time due to her being physically exhausted from the week's events. I read the message and continue to drive. Bummed out again, I told myself that she was a flake and shouldn't be bothered to go any further.
She then texts me again 30 minutes later asking me if I got her message since my phone told me the message has been "read". Huh. (Red Flag?)
I pull over and we start talking. She told me that we don't need to go silent between seeing each other and that we should chat in between. (Red Flag?) I told her that I was in the city anyway to have an evening to myself. She told me that depending on where I am at and how she is feeling she may drive downtown to meet me. I gave off a cool, happy, "whatever" response and told her to just let me know. I go and have another great evening to myself, but I'm also talking to her throughout the evening. She then tells me that she is too tired and does not want to get out of her pajamas to meet me. Fair enough. I asked her if we should try to schedule a date one more (and in my mind, final) time. She agrees and we set plans for the following Tuesday.
We continue to chat over text off and on through the Saturday. That evening she tells me she is going out to watch some music with a friend. I tell her to have a good time and chat with me if she is bored.
She calls me and we proceed to talk for about 40 minutes. The first thing she said was an apology for her cancelling the two dates. She told me of the reasons and went into detail about them. I told her that life happens and she never has to explain to me why she had to cancel (she had to travel, got laid off from her job and had to find a new job quickly). We talk some more and hang up. She is texting me throughout the evening sending me pictures of what she is doing along with a small video of the venue she is at. I told her that it all looks fun. I settle in the for evening and wished her a good night and to call me if she needs someone to keep her awake when she has to drive home. I didn't get the call but I did get a text back about a half hour later. I got up about a half hour after that and decided to call her and talk. We talk for another 20-30 minutes and we hang up.
I turn up my flirting game just a little the next day. We chat periodically back and forth (she was at work). At the end of her workday, she tells me about her final day and how sad it was. I tell her to get something nice for herself and have a relaxing evening.
She then texts me a couple of hours later asking me for a selfie (Red Flag?). I responded with one and she sent a selfie of her skiing. Light chat.
The next day we chat a little and I continue to flirt and turn up the heat a little more. That evening I had a different Meetup event I wanted to go to so I got ready for that. She texts me that evening asking me what I was up to. I told her and she called, to which we talked for about 15 minutes before we hung up. I had my meetup thing, she had hers. Still feeling strong feelings of attraction from her. Still feeling good about the date the next day.
Date day. I chat a little more throughout the morning. One message she sent me was about how good I looked in the clothes I was wearing when we first met. I told her to wait for the evening and she will see how "dapper" I will look with a wink.
Bomb Drop Shortly after, she tells me that she is excited to see me and spend time with me, but she is not in a position to pursue anything romantic. She is not emotionally ready for a relationship and just want to keep us as friends right now. Ok. A little deflating, but I told her that I understood and that we can talk more about that topic that evening. Our plans to meet were still on.
I have told other folks about what happened and I was overwhelmingly told that she is playing me, I am falling for her tricks, that I need to move on quickly and forget about her. All good reasons to essentially cut my losses and move on.
That evening, I get dressed and head downtown to meet her. She texts me about 45 minutes before we meet apologizing to me that she hasn't gotten back to me because she was napping. She asks me if we're still meeting. I told her "Absolutely. I am going to eat something delicious tonight!" She laughs and tells me that she'll get ready and meet me at the restaurant.
15 minutes later she meets me at the restaurant. Our friendly hangout session begins. I'll provide details in the next post.
And I am also looking back on the sequence of events and I now see a lot of red flags for what has happened. And I do see a few things that she has done that tells me she is playing with me. That being said, I still sensed a good amount of attraction from her. And it was apparent during our hangout.
We meet in front of the restaurant and she gives me pretty long hug. We go inside and we begin to order. And I am applying all of the techniques I have learned about being an alpha male - making a decision of what I want to drink and eat. No hemming and hawing. She did not know what she wanted to drink, I ask for hot tea. She then asks for hot tea as well. We order some sushi and make some light chit chat before we address the BD she sent me.
She told me that she was forced into a previous relationship. One that she did not want and basically told me that what we're doing is following the same path. I told her that I clearly understood where she was coming from and told her that I am in a similar situation. I told her about the events the last 14 months and how in late July I hit rock bottom. I then told her about how the last 7 months I have been working on being the man she sees across from me. I further told her that I see that she is attracted to me. She agreed. I told her that it's obvious to her that I have the same feelings for her. She also agreed to that. I told her that I would love to take it slow. I am in no rush. We did some light flirting throughout the evening.
We then continue to talk about some of the highlights of my sitch. About how I plan on being fully separated by early summer, how the whole sitch went down by my WW's infidelity, and how I have moved on. I also told my date that I harbor no bad feelings for my WW. I told her that my WW was the person who changed my life and there will always be a place in my heart for her. I also told her that I am moving on and told her that I am an awesome man and someone is going to be very lucky to have me.
The date goes on until well after closing time. We leave the restaurant and decide to kill a little more time. Around the corner we go to a fancy hotel and go the lobby where there is a restaurant. She absolutely loved it and started to make tentative plans for us to come here next time we meet. We then leave the hotel and decide to call it an evening. I walk her to car and prepared to walk back to mine. She offers a lift instead to which I accept. I told her she can drop me off at the corner of the parking garage. She goes into the parking garage and parks right next to my car. We look at each other and give each other...a long hug. And we pause. And I cannot leave. I make a small attempt to kiss her but hold back, remembering what she said about being friends. I even told her that I want to do something but I know I should not. She agreed. I leave her car and we wave goodbye to each other. I drive home and text her that I made it back. The next two days we flirt lightly and she sends me a message about her job. I then remember the thing about taking it slow and decided to give her some space. Two days later, I text her a picture of me watching her favorite TV show and told her that I am ready for her quizzes when she's ready.
No words since then. Things have cooled considerably since that last message.
I don't know where to go if I should go forward. I just know that anything I do on my end would be considered pursuit.
I also know that I need to go out and meet more and date others.
I know that this was following the same path as my R to WW was. I told myself that I am not ready and I need to slow down. I just don't know how to slow down without torpedoing my chances if they haven't been already. I'm moving forward knowing that the whole thing with this person is a huge if. And I'm not dwelling on it. I am still living my life. I have more social events planned. I keep going forward.
What was your goal when you took the woman out? Were you going out with her to have sex? Did you want to go on the date b/c you are looking for W#2? Do you see the purpose of a date is having sex?
I wonder, with you not feeling experienced in the dating field, if you came off being too forward or fast, due to you trying to imitate someone else? .
Honestly, my goal was to see if I can get some physical affection and a chance at a new R. The goal was not sex, but I am craving some sort of physical and emotional intimacy. I do not see the purpose of a date as sexual. Like my last post, it felt like I was in the process of making a special connection with this person. I genuinely am attracted to her. I think her having some sort of attraction to me is also a factor in my pacing.
I know dating especially after moving on needs to be taken slow. I have taken it too fast previously, even before my WW. I have been watching videos and reading books on proper attraction, dating like an alpha male, and accepting rejection with grace and use it as fuel to move forward. I feel better knowing that there is nothing inherently wrong with me. I tell myself I am a great guy and that my time is coming.
It seems like all of my friends who are in relationships started out dating in a manner similar like mine, but what I did not know what the pacing of their courtship was like. It's pacing that I need the most help with.
Well you seem to have handled yourself quiet nicely in the bar. I'm not sure what you meant by moment 1, 2, etc. Touching your arm was a signal she was attracted and interested. Playing with her jewelry may have been a sign she was a little nervous or excited, IDK. I'd put more money on a woman (at least young ones) playing with her hair as a positive sign she's attracted to you. Another sign of positive body language, is when she is sitting with her body turned in your direction.
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She told me that we don't need to go silent between seeing each other and that we should chat in between. (Red Flag?)
No, I don't see it as a red flag. I was going to tell you (before I read where she spoke up about it) that you had let too much silent time lapse between first meeting her and the rescheduled date night. She probably got cold feet and told herself she did not know you well enough. So, from now on, when you meet a new lady and get her phone number, put that phone to use. If the date is a week away, then maybe give her a call about the middle of the week. Don't talk a long time, and don't call every day before actually going out on a date together. This is a way of getting better acquainted with each other. It's also a way in which she can detect your personality, without getting distracted by your good looks.......and vise versa.
As for how you conducted yourself throughout the evening with her, I think you did well. A few pointers I would make is to not discuss your recent sitch with WW. Not on the first date. If she should ask about your marital status, just tell you are separated or in the process of D, whatever. If you and the woman should have a continual dating relationship, then you would tell her more information, but I think freshly separated people should not discuss their previous spouse/marriage on the first few dates.
The only other suggestion I have is not to tell the woman that you are amazing, AMOAFWL, or that any woman would be lucky to have you. It's fine to say it on the board, but not to your date.
By reading the way you were beating up on yourself about how you had pursued her.....I thought you must have slept with her on the first date, or hounded her until she accepted a date. After reading the real account, I don't think you pursued anymore than she did. If you had been initiating all the texting and calls, then it would have been too much. You really need to stop being so hard on yourself.
I don't know what happened in your growing up years, and it's not necessary to know. Whatever it was, left you feeling as if your best is never good enough. I hope you won't see the suggestions I made as strong criticism. I think you did a great job at the bar and asking for a date. It didn't sound awkward or pushy. She seem to have enjoyed your company the night you met to eat.
By what you've written about her, I don't really get a feeling of her playing you. If she has come out of a bad relationship, she may be very cautious. I picked up on that the night at the bar, when you offered to go sit together. She wanted to return to the "group". To me, that suggested she felt more comfortable being in a group when she is meeting a man for the first time. I think when she did not hear anymore from you after giving you her phone number, she could have felt that you had lost interest or whatever. We could guess at what she thought all day, and it would be pointless.
I want to encourage you to date others. Please don't get serious about the first woman you date. You have a lot to offer, so be picky and take your time about commitments. It breaks my heart that you are starving for physical affection. There are a lot of people in the world who feel just like you.
Anyway, I suggest you wait for this woman to initiate the next contact. You are not in a committed relationship her and you don't need to be right now. I mean, even if she texts you again, that should not stop you from going out with someone else. Don't sit home wondering about this woman when there are millions of other women out there. I'm not certain I understand what you mean when you say you don't know how to slow down. When we tell you to go slow, we are saying don't jump back into a committed relationship before you have had time to date several women. Don't go out there dating, with the thought you are looking for your next spouse. Just date to have fun, expand your social life, and have a little companionship. Make sense? Don't get into another bad marriage, simply b/c you crave physical affection.
When I read about how your W pursued sex the first time you met face to face, it makes me wonder about her! I thought it was you moving too fast, but it sounds as if she was the instigator. I am old fashion, but if you were my son, I'd tell you to run from women who want to have sex when you first meet. IMHO, that would be a red flag!
Get back out there. Don't see everything as a rejection. It's not. It's often a blessing, and you just don't see it. Mark it down as experience and move on to the next woman. ((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
