Here is the rule: When she texts or emails, only answer direct questions. Informational texts and emails need no response. When responding to her questions do so on YOUR time (IE not always right away), and then in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
This helps immensely..I couldn't figure out if I should respond or not. I had already deleted the message. Good to know for yes/no/short answers.
Thanks everything! Detachment, Not Pursuing (or doing things that look like pursuing), GAL, are hard to do when you love someone and are hurting. Time heals everything. I keep reading and posting and things will get better. Not sure what I would have done without this site and by BIL who went through this. I call him to get guidance. If I didn't have this support, I would still be doing everything wrong like I did the first couple weeks. I know I will falter every once and a while but I can do this. Change me! Set up boundaries, GAL!
She seemed really distant when I got home. Not sure if it was just one of her typical moods or because I never responded to her email. Not sure what to make of it. She was leaving to go to her workout and when leaving, I just said have fun.
I have scheduled an appointment with a divorce attorney. Getting educated on that process in case it leads to legal separation and/or divorce.
Good!
I have a question about her moving across the street. Is this the same neighbor where you all were spending time? Is this the Neighbor with the son who was flirting with your W? Is the son still around?
I think both separated scenarios are terrible. It's "in your face" either direction.
Anthony, I think some H's do not know how to be a leader. If a man does not have natural leadership skills, then it could easily come across as "controlling".
When a man & woman are M and have a family together, I believe the man is the head of the home. It requires leadership, protection, provision, etc. In today's society of strong women, men may find it to be a great challenge establishing himself as the leader. A rebellious W throws accusations at her H that he tries to "control" her, and it may or may not be true. If she is already rebellious, then anyone who says the word, "No", will be accused of controlling.
A man who has NGS may try to make his W happy by appeasing her as much as possible. In return, he may get a W who has a sense of entitlement........or what I like to call, a spoiled brat. The dynamics in your MR will not change easily or quickly b/c she has pretty much done as she pleased throughout the time you've been together. She is not going to meekly submit to what you say, b/c she doesn't respect you. She is not going to change her viewpoint staying in a in-house separation. If she wants a S, then tell her she needs to leave. I'm not saying to literally "kick her out", I'm saying you need to tell her she should leave if she doesn't want to be your W. If she can't afford a place, that's her problem. Either she's in the M, or she's not. If not, then why live under the same roof and play happy family when it's convenient for her? (We have a generation growing up seeing their parents living IHS and they think this is how a normal M looks. )
Moving in with the neighbor is highly suspicious, IMO. If there is no hidden agenda there, then just how long do you think a neighbor will put up with her staying there without financial contribution? Is she planning to run back over to your place for meals, washing her clothes, using hygiene products, and whatever else costs money? What a setup!
My advice would be to tell her that if she decides to leave, then do it with the understanding there will be no running back & forth whenever she needs something. Don't say it like a threat, but as clarification of how things will stand. I think you've already said too much, and left her with the impression you'll take whatever you can get. I don't think you should offer a "time out" arrangement. B/c the first bad experience she has, she'll go running back home until she wants to go play some more. In-house separation doesn't work out in favor of the M. The WW gets the best of both worlds. Living across the street may be worse than IHS, I don't know. She doesn't have anyone else to offer their couch, except the neighbor? IMHO, I think she should have a real sense of feeling separated, and living across the street and/or IHS will not provide it. She needs to see her life apart from her H and the MR. As long as she can blame you for all her problems, she won't accept the truth in front of her. And, as long as you are in the next room, or across the street,,,,,,,,,she won't experience real separation.
If you have seen the biggest change in your W come after she started drinking, then I think it's safe to say that is a serious problem that will continue getting worse. The unhappy MR, the drinking, and the BFF seems enmeshed. As much as you love her and want to rescue her.......you can't. It's heartbreaking to see what's happening. It's like watching a collision in slow motion. For now, I think you need to stop focusing on saving the M, and just think of what will be best for your children, and for yourself. You have to let her go,
As for her getting IC/MC........I think she's just playing a game with you there. As long as she allows BFF into her life, nothing will work in favor of the M. I don't understand why she would be pals with her, and it's probably something for a therapist, but it's an unhealthy "friendship". As long as she's drinking, I think she will go from man to man. Until she makes the decision to get help for her drinking problem, nothing else will help her. The booze will be her god. I don't get why you told her you would keep the MC appointments without her. I mean, I think you were hoping upon hope that MC would be the cure for the OM issue, so it was an act of desperation.......? MC doesn't work if both parties are not willing to participate, and unless both parties want help in saving their M. Your W is not looking for help to save her M, and you telling her you'd attend solo......looks like a desperate man, IMO.
The most effective action I have seen, is when the H lets go of his W and moves forward in his life. With your fear of abandonment, this could prove to be very challenging, At the same time, it might turn out to be the time for great personal growth as a man. Currently, you are trying to persuade her not to get a divorce. You were acceptable to separation when she said that she wouldn't pursue D for now. (Believe nothing she says.) I think you saw it as an emotional string to cling to, and thought it was better than nothing. But, I'm just rambling.
Again, I encourage you to know your own core values. It is not okay to betray one's spouse. This betrayal has gone both ways, which will need therapy to heal as a couple. She's just not ready right now. Her head is too messed up with OM, BFF, and booze. Therefore, take care of yourself, Continue to read the books recommended. Btw, one that use to be recommended a lot was Hold on to Your N.U.T.S. I've never read it, but I remember Starsky saying it was a small but powerful book for nice guys,
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am leaning towards just kicking her out. I want to understand financial side of this too with the attorney. She says she wouldn't want alimony and such if we got divorce. But then said that if I turned off her credit card access, she wouldn't be able to buy groceries for the kids and other stuff.
So I live in a state that is no fault" but allows for fault based divorces too.
willful absence of the other spouse for one year (fault ground) adultery (fault ground) extreme cruelty (fault ground) gross neglect of duty (fault ground) habitual drunkenness (fault ground) imprisonment of the other spouse (fault ground) lived separate and apart for one continuous year (no-fault ground) one spouse alleges the couple is incompatible, and the other spouse does not disagree (no-fault ground).
If you look at most of her posts on social media, they are of her in a bar, drinking, etc. I have photos of her passed out drunk, vomit in background, etc. She is also being openly adultery. I know I got the BJ from her BFF and such, but the threesome was her and the BFFs initiation and I joined in and was consensual. So not sure if I have a grounds on that. There are not many pics or things of me being drunk. I never really ever went to a bar. I stayed at home and drank. There are texts and messages from me to her, complaining at the 2AM to 4AM arrival times at home. The hangovers, etc. Also, the hitting of me is another fault ground. These can impact her financially. The main reason she has not left was because she makes very little money and I make 6 figures. She has a BA degree but wants to go get her master's. I need to stand up to her and I will after Friday (the attorney meeting). I will be taking over the MBR and making a stand on her leaving.
For the reason she wants to go across the street is to be able to help the kids get on the bus, etc and the fact that he offered to let her stay there rent free since she don't have money. I wouldn't say she flirted with the son of the guy there. The guy that lives there is in love with her (I have seen a text from him stating this - he is 30+ years older than her). He kept telling me that he wouldn't stand for what she is doing to me. He even said that he didn't want to get into the middle of it as he considered us both his best friend. He told me to contact a lawyer. Then he offers his house to her. His house is nasty and definitely wouldn't be living the best life there. I am afraid that she would think she could come and go anytime she wants. I would want it to be a legal separation so I can change the locks and prevent her from coming in.
As for her getting IC/MC........I think she's just playing a game with you there. As long as she allows BFF into her life, nothing will work in favor of the M. I don't understand why she would be pals with her, and it's probably something for a therapist, but it's an unhealthy "friendship". As long as she's drinking, I think she will go from man to man. Until she makes the decision to get help for her drinking problem, nothing else will help her. The booze will be her god. I don't get why you told her you would keep the MC appointments without her. I mean, I think you were hoping upon hope that MC would be the cure for the OM issue, so it was an act of desperation.......? MC doesn't work if both parties are not willing to participate, and unless both parties want help in saving their M. Your W is not looking for help to save her M, and you telling her you'd attend solo......looks like a desperate man, IMO.
Yeah I think given your history you'd have a tough time pinning the "fault" for the D on her. Basically your argument would be "well yeah I did those things, but she did it worse so it's her fault!" A judge is likely to say you were equally at fault. But see what your L says.
Regarding the locks, "legally" you can't change them. Plenty of people here have anyway. Most WAS's don't bother to find out what their legal rights are, they figure once they leave they don't have the "right" to go back so if the door is locked then they leave. Legally they can call the police and demand entry, but I don't think I've heard of that happening here despite a lot of LBS's having changed their locks.
Talk to your attorney. You may not be able to legally kick her out. Also, while many no fault D states still have at fault Ds, most lawyers do not recommend that because now you have to prove what you are asserting. When I talked to a lawyer they said we could bring things up to the court, but the courts didn't really "hear" at-fault cases anymore.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
As for her getting IC/MC........I think she's just playing a game with you there. As long as she allows BFF into her life, nothing will work in favor of the M. I don't understand why she would be pals with her, and it's probably something for a therapist, but it's an unhealthy "friendship". As long as she's drinking, I think she will go from man to man. Until she makes the decision to get help for her drinking problem, nothing else will help her. The booze will be her god. I don't get why you told her you would keep the MC appointments without her. I mean, I think you were hoping upon hope that MC would be the cure for the OM issue, so it was an act of desperation.......? MC doesn't work if both parties are not willing to participate, and unless both parties want help in saving their M. Your W is not looking for help to save her M, and you telling her you'd attend solo......looks like a desperate man, IMO.
I have debated to cancel the MC appointments.
Why would you go to MC with someone that is actively cheating on you. That is like attending diet classes while you are eating donuts.
Last edited by Steve85; 02/26/1907:56 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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