Been together 25 years, married 14. S11 and S6. BD 8/15/18. IHS.
Over last year W was distant, wanting time and space to figure things out when I approached her to talk or ask how she was doing. Noticed a guy’s picture saved on I cloud she said was for a friend. She went on BCP, said it was for a medical condition, to help with cysts(she’s had a few removed from breast, and her sister has cervical ones). She started working out. Got a tattoo on her shoulder of an initial for her dad who passed away two years ago. She became secretive with her phone carrying it around everywhere with her and closing out of it when I got near. She woke up early at 3am sometimes on the iPad and said she couldn’t go to sleep but wouldn’t open up to me. Sex life was spiked sometimes but we’d have our usual Fridays planned time and sometimes on the weekends and spontaneous weekdays but it wasn’t enough. I sensed something changed in her. Certain nuances when it came to sex. From prior year she would take more business trips with her boss who is also female. No idea who else would have gone. W worked for this company for 20 years and has new bigger clients from last 1-2 years.
Due to secretive behavior, I started using the find me app. One day she said she was at work and I used the app to catch her in a lie. I texted her and she lied saying it was a last minute work meeting. I was foolish and got destructive and tore up some of her personal items. She bomb dropped me saying it was my fault and she didn’t do anything wrong. She made an excuse for everything and said she wanted D. 1 month prior to BD, we started building a new home in a new location. We already had 50k put into the start so I was tapped out.
After BD, I broke so many rules like pursuit and begging for the kids. I ran hot and cold. Some days I didn’t trust her and others I doubted my judgement. I snooped on the phone bill and saw several texts to one number at certain times of the day when she was at work, enough to arouse my suspicion and she denied it. She went undercover after that. She was reading a lot of romance novels at this time too and I used her amazon account to buy things and saw her kindle books. One was something about adultery or how to get away with it. She later denied it. I even questioned if I had done that, searched for books on how to cheat to see if I could catch her and wondered if it saved my search history. I couldn’t believe what was going on that I was in a fog.
It was after 2 months I found DR.
I started to search for help, bought DR. Worked on my 180s. W noticed immediately. She no longer said she wanted to D but didn’t want to string me along either(she wanted to cake eat). I found the board and eventually stopped spending time with W as a family. I continued to work out and spent less days at home.
It’s been 6months since BD. W and I are selling this house in May. New house will be done end of May. A few times W talked about new house being our home and made comments about me living with them but did not say anything about the R or her behavior. I didn’t believe one word of what she was saying. She was trying to string me along.
I spoke to an attorney who was against 50/50 custody. I thought that wasn’t an option with what I was going to do, move out early as a point that I wouldn’t tolerate being in the same house as a cheater. Others here quickly convinced me fight for half time with the kids and it resonated with me. I decide to stay in this house until it sells. If I don’t try to push to oust her , I most likely won’t establish some more respect from her, but in considering everything, I’m not sure what I want either.
I believe if I had the divorce papers I would sign them under these conditions. I also feel like we need to go thru this physical separation. I question if she brings OM to new house if that will be a deal breaker for me. I feel conflicted, like I am standing for the M and open to reconcile but at the same time I want nothing to do with this person. I want my new life.
I’ve tried to spend these past months more with my sons and less with her. I take every opportunity to teach them. I take every opportunity to confront W on her disrespect, whether it’s her making comments under her breath to putting words in my mouth.
After S11 turned 11 we told the kids about D. Was hard.
I lost 70 pounds so far and have 100 more to go. I let myself gain weight drastically over the last 1-2 years.
I’m trying to work on emotional control and detachment.
AND.....tonight W and I had an argument about she expected me to help her do something I would have done before as the H. I argued back and said she fired me as the H. I think I am going to slowly use certain things from here and feel like a hipocrite for doing so because I’ve purposefully stayed away from trying to “make her see the light” with the info here.
I’m trying to use the tools on behavior but I am also using knowledge and weaving that into my own words against W expectations. One thing that stuck out from the argument was that I wasn’t happy either but I was still committed and I deserve better. She said oh so now your not doing anything to help with the house but you want half? I reminded her of everything I did to help and that Half? Told her half of everything was not good enough because now at most either of us will get half our time with the boys. I told her I deserved better than half. Will stop here.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
One thing that stuck out from the argument was that I wasn’t happy either but I was still committed and I deserve better. She said oh so now your not doing anything to help with the house but you want half? I reminded her of everything I did to help and that Half? Told her half of everything was not good enough because now at most either of us will get half our time with the boys. I told her I deserved better than half. Will stop here.
Adam, I think you would agree that these convos with your W are going poorly. I think like many of us you try to make these discussions about your wants and needs rather than hers, and that just escalates into an argument. "I deserve better." "I reminded her of everything I did." "half of everything was not good enough." "I told her I deserved better than half." You you you. That comes off to her as you being selfish, self-righteous and dismissive of her feelings. A lot of the issue with WAW's is they feel like their emotional needs haven't been met for a long time. Instead of listening and validating you are arguing and trying to convince her you are right and she is wrong. She may very well be wrong, but this is about YOU doing what YOU can do to change the dynamic. And what you can do that will make a huge difference is LISTEN and VALIDATE. Validation is neutral, it is you simply listening to her and acknowledging her feelings no matter what they are. You are not agreeing/ disagreeing/ arguing/ negotiating/ reasoning/ etc. It doesn't matter whether you agree with her or not, you are simply letting her speak and allowing her to feel however she does. And you are not injecting your wants/ needs into the conversation, because I assure you right now she could give a flip about your needs.
I'm not suggesting you allow an affair, or roll over and let her cake-eat or anything like that. This is just about doing something different to keep arguments from starting and escalating. As hard as it is, you have to be the agent of change because she is unwilling and unable to right now. Like Michele says, "it takes one to tango".
I knew it escalated and should have stopped. The other thing that bothers me is that if I knew I was part to blame I would later approach her and tell her I was sorry for contributing to the argument, when we had a relationship. Now I can’t do this either. Gotta just stop this all together, you are right.
I need to work on the self control. This morning it escalated again because we needed to talk about upcoming projects we have other people coming to help with. Going to keep it civil and matter of factly with her.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
I'm sorry you are having a hard time of it at the moment. Not allowing things to escalate is difficult. Things will naturally escalate when you have two people who are hurting and confused. Hurt people hurt people. When these convo's start all the things we've been holding in, our hurt, our resentment, our feelings of rejection and our confusion comes pouring out of us. And by us I mean you, me, your W, and my H. We are all hurt, resentful, feeling rejected and most of all, damn, we are all so very very confused.
I avoid all R convos for this very reason, but so does my H, so it isn't too difficult for me. The alternative is those two people put up emotional barriers and use avoidance as a strategy. In my sitch there is a complicit contract that we will avoid all R conversations, keep our discussions short and to the point and try not to be in the same room for longer than necessary. This alternative also s*cks because beneath the façade of emotional detachment, is still two hurt people who are better at hiding it. And it doesn't change the fact that hurt people hurt people. It is just more under the radar. But, I agree that this alternative at least has as its objective self preservation. Eventually the pretense of emotional detachment becomes actual emotional detachment - and it is only then that they lose the power to hurt us and in turn, we will not feel that need to hurt them. So, I understand your struggle. I would suggest avoiding the R talks (but you know this), focusing on your kids (as you are doing) and your own GAL. Eventually you wont have to try to be emotionally detached. You just will be.
You ask whether your W bringing OM to the house is a deal breaker for you. Do you have an expectation that she will not? Because she will - she will want to start sharing her life with him as soon as she can. It is the fantasy of a new life and that new life includes OM. It may all fall down in a heap around her later, but right now, her fantasy is still int act. Don't ask yourself now if it is a deal breaker, because your views will change depending on how far down your journey you are when it happens. What I have put up with, the many lines I've drawn in the sand, then, broken and weeping. stepped over, would astound you. And I am not alone. Those of us who still hold out hope for our M have all stepped over those same lines.
What you can and should control is what relationship this OM (and any other future OM) will have with your children and this must be articulated and agreed between the two of you. Trust me, she is just as afraid of you bringing OW into your children's lives. The maternal instinct is a strong one, even in those in the middle of a fog, and the very thought of another woman in her children's lives keeps her up at night.
Thank you for helping me to see through this. You are right in that it will happen and how I feel then will be up in the air. There is a lot to unpack in that though.
The thing is the other night she came home from a dinner out with her coworkers. I had fed, bathe, and put the boys to sleep. She got home and wanted me to sign some papers on the house which I did so she lingered in the study to tell me she had the realtors H look at the dishwasher and he said motor blown. She said her Sisters fiancé was coming to confirm and see about replacing it. I don’t want to make this a long rant but we both, W and I, clearly agreed several times we were not going to rely on friends or family to help us from a year ago and we both agreed not to bother anyone. We could afford to replace the dishwasher and hire painters. Well she went against this. She most likely was drinking that night and asked me why I made this puzzling face when she told me the fiancé was coming to double check that the motor was blown. I told her I had known this, another guys said it was so it didn’t make sense we had a 3rd person to say the same thing and I asked her if she looked for the replacement parts. She said she did but couldn’t find anything so the parts could be obsolete. I told her okay so if that’s the case why have someone try to fix it and are we sure it would work if we bought the parts which atm we don’t know are available. She said she didn’t know and I told her this is why I had the look of questioning. She spent several minutes saying they offered to help during a conversation they had. She was lying about that but I didn’t expose the lie. She left and I looked up the parts and later told her the price and that’s when she said I should have done that in the beginning instead of draggging it out. I was mad because I was trying to help but she expected me to do this. Anyways, she also said when I helped her move the boxes to the garage, the heavy box she couldn’t lift alone, she said the way I was telling her to lift was too much, I was trying to “teach” her. I was upset saying I didn’t want her to hurt herself and was coming from a good place to help.
So yeah my response to her was trying to come from a place standing up for myself. I’m still angry she expects me to be a certain way like I have to earn my keep or I won’t get half. The way she said it was like dangling that in my face. There was more crap she said but I kept it simple due to the length of my writing alrdy.
Still, I don’t want to get dragged down to that level and I should have bowed out. she reneged on an agreement, Just bumps from the reminder that I can’t believe or trust her. Nothing new
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Btw, things like her going out for dinner with unknown people, I can’t control that nor am I letting that affect me. She told me in advance about it and we planned for her to be out. Wasn’t passive aggressive there.
I had read posts regarding children and some of these agreements with the WAS where they aren’t honoring agreements so that was in the back of my mind. That was my fault. Also I thought about having other men in my home helping to fix stuff I can take care of. I do find that disrespectful. If I am not the one who asked them or hired them and we agreed to it then yeah it bothered me. I have to drop this male bravado crap. She’s free to ask for help. But don’t ask other people and then expect me to have no feelings about it. The point is the same with going out as a family. I have some dignity and self respect but she clearly does not take that into account. That’s why they think it’s still okay to ask you to play family when they’re the one hurting you and feeling like everything is ok.
If I’m wrong here help me to see it differently.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Your wife sounds like a difficult person. Honestly an in-house separation seems harder than a separate separation. On one hand there's a bit more hope that things can be fixed, on the other hand you suffer more. I hope this doesn't last too much longer for you!
Sorry it took a while to get back to this. I am not a counsellor (perhaps DV could pipe in) but from the way you describe it, the argument was never about the dishwasher. It isn't even about your W, though she definitely had a part in the escalation. This one is about you and your own feelings of rejection.
Adam, she fired you as her H. She is bailing on your M and is openly having an affair with another man. Why, oh why would you expect her to not renege on an agreement about dishwasher parts. My guess is because she is asking people to do stuff that a H would normally do.
Now that my H has moved out, I sometimes get other people to come in and do the stuff he would have done, like painting the stairs, or doing some plumbing in the kitchen. I don't ask permission and I don't apologize. Every single time I see the flash of anger in his eyes. The accusation that I should have consulted with him first because he could have managed it, or at least got it done cheaper. Then inevitable question "How much did THAT cost?". I tell him but I do so with a tone which says, non of your business, my house, my money. He scoffs then walks away.
My H is not my H. He walked away. Therefore he does not get a say in things that a H would normally have a say in. He fired me as his W. Therefore he no longer gets to act like my H.
I am reading between the lines, but you feel that by reneging on your agreement, or by asking for another opinion, she is again, firing you as her H.
so, if your W wants to waste her time (and the time of other people) getting them to come in and look at a dishwasher, let her.
"I thought we agreed to replace it, but if you want to get some more opinions then OK. Let me know when you've decided" ... or (and I would never actually say this to him) the "whatever" approach.
Anyway, something to think about.
And you are right, the only time I throw the disrespect card is when it is about the children. When this happens comms are always business like, and always by text.
Oh and Adam. I appreciate your comments on my sitch too. It has helped a lot knowing that you, and others, are listening, I appreciate the "good jobs" as much as I appreciate the (and I've got this a few times) "you [censored] up, now get back on the horse".
FS...You always have some really good advice and insights, IMO. I think if you ever decide on a second career, counselling might suit you. Sorry things have been so tough Adam. Turn the focus back on you and your sons... it will get better in time. (((HUGS)))
