Midlife crisis wife

[Wolfman]

I have been doing 180’s on those things. I have been listening a lot more, no arguments, not controlling. The only thing I haven’t done is romance because I don’t think we are there and that would be persuing.

[MoveFrwd]

I get that but she is moving forward with the divorce. So can I not believe her when she says she wants a divorce? We are going to mediation for the third time tonight. It doesn’t look like she is scared. I wish she was maybe she would have second thoughts. So should I believe the things she is saying?

It doesnt mean that she doesnt believe those things right now. The things she says may be 100% true. The point is more that they might not ALWAYS be true forever.

Imagine finishing a big breakfast and then saying something like "Im so full, I dont think Ill ever eat again" That could be a completely legit feeling. Does that mean you should throw all of the food you have in your house away? Of course not. Same thing applies here. She may say things like "I was never happy and you were the reason so I need to get away from you and divorce you and blah blah blah." We arent saying that she is outright lying to you. She may even believe it 100%. The point is more that you shouldnt base your actions and decisions and emotions on the things she is saying.

For me, it was a lot easier to just assume it was all lies/crazy talk than to try to parse through things and figure out what was actionable.

[Wolfman]

Update of what happened at mediation yesterday. We talked a lot about figuring out schedule for children. We seemed to agree on a lot of it. Trying to make it as fair as possible. Then the mediator asked about what we were going to do about the house. She said she still wasn’t sure. Either her dad was going to give her the money to buy me out or we were going to sell it. She said she needed more time to think about it. Then at the end of our hour long meeting he asked what day next week worked for us to come in again. W said next week was not good because she needed to work on her observation (she is a teacher for 16 years), the mediator said haven’t you been teaching for a while, she said yeah but she needs time to work it. She said how about in 2 weeks? I don’t want to get too excited but I feel like if she wanted out of this marriage so bad, which she has expressed in the past, wouldn’t she want to have the meeting sooner? She said she needed time to also think about what she wanted to do with the house. I hope that it’s also about our situation. Again, I don’t want to look into it too much just hoping.

Then later on I went out and picked up dinner. When I got home she was upstairs, I went upstairs and told her I was home with dinner. Kids ate while we were at mediation with their grandparents. So, she told me she would be down in a few minutes. She came down and sat right next to me and we ate together were we spoke about things at work for about a half hour. Again, I hope this is a positive sign. The only thing I am afraid of is that she is looking at this as a friendship. To the vets on here, how do I know if it’s heading in the right direction (going back to husband and wife) or she is looking at our relationship as a friendship?

Last positive thing I noticed. Normally when she goes to bed, she shuts the bedroom door. Last night was the first time she left it wide open. Again, don’t know if I’m looking to deep into these things. But the book DR says to look for the little changes. What do some of the vets think?

[Ready2Change]

I believe you keep focusing on your positive changes. She is noticing for sure. She is not the measurement tool. You are.


Reflect back on the mediation process. Learn this skill. The mediator knows the process. Take this as your way of negotiation.


Your W asked for more time to think. You gave this to her. At some point in the future use this:

H:"W, I need more time to think about this"
W:"Bla bla bla I need a decision now." or "Bl bla bla dragging this out" or " bla bla bla delaying on purpose"
H:"W, I am asking you to give me the same respect I gave you. During our first mediation, you wanted more time to think about what you wanted to do about the house and I did not force you to make an immediate decision. Please give me the same respect"

[SteveLW]

wolfman, yes her not wanting to go right back to mediation is a good sign. You are right in your analysis that her not wanting to go back next week shows she isn't as gungho to separate and D as possible. However I agree with R2C that you should not be looking at a gauge on her like a thermometer.

Take note of things, but do not put expectations or too much hope on them. Right now she is outside of the MR. Could she come back, sure. Is she moving back based on sitting next to you at dinner? Leaving her bedroom door open? Not running back to mediation next week? WAY to early to tell.

Wolfman, none of this matters. What matters is what you are doing. What did you do for GAL yesterday? I see you attached and reattaching based on "signs". How is your detachment and self-differentiation coming along? Are you working on your 180s, not just to make them, but to make them permanent?

Stop focusing on your W, she can feel that. You are watching every move, every emotion, every facial expression, and every tick that she makes. That is pressure. You want to remove all pressure. ALL PRESSURE. Every time you look for responses, reactions, and emotions in her she feels like an animal at the zoo. And that will push her away.

[AnotherStander]

I am really struggling with this, because she won’t see we had a great marriage. There was no infidelity, abuse, drugs, alcohol or gambling.

The absence of those things does not a great marriage make. Let's go back to your original post:

When we talked on the phone she explained that she felt that I didn’t love her because i didn’t kiss her every time I walked out of the house, didn’t greet her at the door when she got home, didn’t kiss her EVERY night we went to bed or that sometimes we didn’t watch tv together.

In other words, you weren't meeting her emotional needs which is a big thing for most women.

My wife is a big slob she never cleans up after herself or puts her clothes away. My house is a mess all the time.

I am 100% sure that even if you never said that to her face, she felt it in your attitude and actions and it hurt her deeply, and over and over again over a long period of time. You made her feel worthless. Also, it is not her responsibility to keep an immaculate house. That is as much on you as it is her. You were establishing "covert contracts" where you expected her to do things and THEN you would reward her with attention/affection. Then when she didn't meet her end of the contract (which she knew nothing about because it was completely in your head) then...

yeah there were times I did not want to kiss her because I would ask her to just put her stuff away and she wouldn’t.

...you punished her by withholding affection. This is all a very damaging pattern.

I'm not trying to pick on you, most of us found our way here because we were not the best H we could be. But don't assume that just because you weren't having an affair or abusing drugs or booze that your wife was thoroughly enjoying your relationship, she wasn't!! And that is why you are here. So what do you do, you do 180's on your bad behavior, you give her time and space and work on yourself. You make yourself "the spouse only a fool would leave", and hopefully with time she will see your changes, believe they are real and find you attractive again. But it takes time.

Like I said in previous posts she has noticed the changes I have made and yet won’t give our marriage a second chance.

Yes right now she sees all your changes as "too little too late" because of how "done" she is. You've got to give her time.

I get that but she is moving forward with the divorce. So can I not believe her when she says she wants a divorce?

No she absolutely does right now. What that saying means is what she says right now is only a reflection of what she believes right this second. It can change in a day, or a week or a month or a year. So when she speaks in absolutes, like "we will never get back together" or "there is zero chance" then don't believe it because a year from now she may be singing a different tune. But is she lying about divorce? No, unfortunately that is where her head is right now.

I don’t want to get too excited but I feel like if she wanted out of this marriage so bad, which she has expressed in the past, wouldn’t she want to have the meeting sooner?

Who knows. Maybe she is just overwhelmed with everything and feels like she's being pressured. Your job is to REMOVE ALL PRESSURE. If she doesn't want to meet next week then fine, zip your lip. Just let it go. Don't wait a week or two and then ask her about it, SAY NOTHING. If you can remove the pressure she may very well put it all on the back burner and leave it there for months or forever.

She said she needed time to also think about what she wanted to do with the house. I hope that it’s also about our situation.

It's too soon for that. She may eventually, but right now she's just worn out and doesn't want to deal with it.

To the vets on here, how do I know if it’s heading in the right direction (going back to husband and wife) or she is looking at our relationship as a friendship?

The more you look the less likely she will want to recon. Because every time you put her under a microscope you are applying pressure. Back off! Quit worrying about it and over-analyzing and scrutinizing. Work on YOU and leave her alone.

[AnotherStander]

After posting I see that Steve said much of the same of what I did, yes I do agree with Steve's comments!

[SteveLW]

AS, well said sir (your first comments, not the one about agreeing with me)! Wolf, AS helped me in my sitch like you cannot even believe. Please listen to his sage wisdom.

[Miler]

So true AS... most folks feel that "pressuring" them is asking them for temp checks, forcing R talks, forcing dates/touching, etc. before they are ready. However, the biggest form of pressure is looking for little things that they do or don't do as a "sign" of something. When I first went through this 4 years ago, that was the biggest form of pressure that she said I was putting on her. When we would have R talks, and I would list all the things that she didn't do or did do that looked as if she wasn't invested in recon, she would tell me...stop looking into to things so much. I feel guilty for things I do or don't do all the time now because I feel like you are constantly watching me.

Great points guys! Wolfman, self-differentiation and let go. You have to let go of the old R. Anything that happens between you and your W now will be a new R anyway...

[Ready2Change]

Your job is to REMOVE ALL PRESSURE. If she doesn't want to meet next week then fine, zip your lip. Just let it go. Don't wait a week or two and then ask her about it, SAY NOTHING.

Tattoo this on the inside of your eyelids. Read it every time you blink.