MLC? Confused what to do (Part 2)

[ovrrnbw]

Anthony, hopefully Sandi and other will chime in. Your W doesn't sound totally unreasonable. You probably understand how she can feel this way right? Maybe tell her that. Then, it's up to you to decide if living together will work for you while she (presumably) still sees OM.

She isn't necessarily cruel for talking to the kids, the kids know something is going on. I could almost guarantee it. Maybe she's trying to look out for them.

I'd say that either way you have a long journey of growth ahead of you. We'll be here to help.

[SteveLW]

Anthony I'm very confused. She sent the long text and then despite that told S9 what she's told him? Something seems missing here.

[AnthonyA]

Ok, so how the events unfolded last night. When I came home from work, she told me that she spoke to an attorney. I said I hope it went well. She said it did and then sat down and started talking to me about what her attorney said. She did this because the other day, she had asked me what my attorney had said on spousal support, etc. One thing that she brought up was the spousal support would end if she moved in with someone else (cohabitation). She said her attorney told her that they could remove some of the spousal support or all. I told her that my attorney said that yes, they could reduce it and not eliminate it. However, he indicated that most of the times, when someone cohabitats, the spousal support would just be eliminated. I educated her also on the fact that the spousal support is not just based on her current earnings but based on what she could make with current degree, work experience, etc (she has a bachelor degree but chooses to work just part time making less than $15K a year).

I then asked her how she intends to be "roommates" with her financial situation. Her idea was that her pay of less than $900 a month would be for her to pay for her master's, pay for getting her hair done, and going out to do whatever she wanted. I then said, what about rent, electric, gas, water, internet, phone, etc. She said that she would have to figure that stuff out.

She then said that she needs this single time and hadn't decided out on moving out or living there. I said that living with me and being roommates and her just going to be with the OM anytime is not an option. She said this has nothing to do with the OM. She wants to see changes from me before she will be willing to work on us. I told her there is no "us" or trying to reconcile while she has a third party involved. She indicated that she can separate the OM and me. I said I disagree.

She then started trying to argue with me on the stuff I did the last 1.5 years. I told her I am implementing changes, The tensions rose. I told her that we can't work on our relationship if she is f*cking another guy. I told her either she chooses me and this family or she choose the OM and ruining this family. She got upset and said, you know what, we are done. I want a separation and stomped up to her room after I told her I am not arguing any more about this as she was pointing a finger at me and ready to say some hateful things.

Next, I saw her take my S9 up to her room and started talking to him. I was cooking dinner for the kids when I saw this. My two D7 went looking for my S9 when his food was ready. They went upstairs and came back and said that S9 is ok but he is in mommy's room with tears in his eyes. I went up and knocked on the door. S9 let me in and I have him sit outside the door. I asked her what she was telling S9. She said that she told him that there is a possibility that we would sell the house and move in separate houses or apartments. I then asked if she was trying to get him to choose a side or something. She said, no, I just asked him if he wanted to continue living here or the other. He chose to want to stay in this house. If we got divorced, I am the only one that can afford it based on income (spousal support and child support without earning it for a couple years would prevent banks from counting it as income and she would only get spousal support for a few years anyways).

I told her that I rather be there for any discussions such as these for when our kids are involved. She said understood. I brought S9 back int he room and told him that it is a possiblity but it doesn't have to be. I told him that there has to be work from both mommy and daddy to try to resolve this but if not, this could happen. He cried and hugged us.

After that discussion, she sent me that text. Before this, she was all about separation, leaving, being done. I don't know if talking to S9 and realizing that all that, she decided to send me that long text or what caused her to settle down.

So that is the events that took place. I have a hard time writing on my iphone so I usually type longer messages from my work computer since I type faster than on iphone messaging.

[AnthonyA]

I have been rather cold to her because it is hard to be nice or happy around someone who is openly having an affair and such. It is hard to pull 180s with her and be the man a fool would want to leave knowing all of what she is doing behind my back and technically in the open. How do I do 180s, make changes and appear happy around her knowing the affair is happening. I hope Sandi is able to chime in with all of this.

I have made it clear that I am not leaving the house. I have made it clear that I am not willing to be in an open marriage. I have started to show my feelings and emotions that I typically held in.

[SteveLW]

First thanks for the clarification. Very helpful. Doses of reality for the walkaway/wayward spouse come in many forms. While I think it was idiotic of her to say this to S9, likely his reaction plus you standing your ground on her affair, as well as the financial details are probably what led her to send the text. WWs want their cake and eat it too. We can live here and be a family, but I still want to run around and be all GGW and single. Good job on holding firm on the "there is no us with OM in the picture". She needs to know that loud and clear.

I have been rather cold to her because it is hard to be nice or happy around someone who is openly having an affair and such. It is hard to pull 180s with her and be the man a fool would want to leave knowing all of what she is doing behind my back and technically in the open. How do I do 180s, make changes and appear happy around her knowing the affair is happening. I hope Sandi is able to chime in with all of this.

I have made it clear that I am not leaving the house. I have made it clear that I am not willing to be in an open marriage. I have started to show my feelings and emotions that I typically held in.

Be careful with this. The whole point of detachment is for you to not react to her emotionally. She expects you to be cold, and not nice. In fact, she is banking on it. WASs want their LBS to be upset because that is how they effect what they want. And what they want is for you to be hurt and upset, and then because of that hurt and upset do all of the heavy lifting of separation and D. "I offered to try anything but he wouldn't try. I pushed for cohabitation for the sake of the kids but he insisted on separation and D." When you are pleased, fulfilled, upbeat and present despite all of this it makes her realize that if she is going to separate and D then the work will all be on her.

And it isn't that you appear "happy", as much as you appear unfazed. As if you have accepted that separation and D is inevitable and that you are going to be okay. Remember, when you act cold and angry and treat her in a way that says yo are cold and angry, it cements to her that the decision she is making is the right one. And then it causes her to confide in OM. "It is so cold and uncomfortable in that house. I have to get out but I only make $900, and won't get enough spousal support to live on my own." You can see where that might go.

[AnotherStander]

Also, i refuse to remove anyone out of my current life situation right now.

Wow, so she is actually saying she'll stay at home and be roommates, but she refuses to leave OM. Anthony, read through TXHubby's threads if you want to see how that scenario will probably play out. She will continue to get more and more defiant and you will just keep getting more miserable until you finally get sick and tired of it and make a stand. I would suggest you make the stand now rather than later. Tell her that her staying while continuing to date OM is not an option, therefore she must go. Period. I think that's how you're leaning anyway so this would be consistent with what you've been telling her.

I’m too emotionally brittle right now. I just can’t do it. It’s keeping me afloat from completely losing it. We are on a break right now and need to focus on ourselves so that’s what we should be focusing on.

Well sure that's true, except she isn't focusing on herself, she's focusing on OM.

Once we feel more stable on both ends I feel confident we will be able to figure things out and make the best decision.

This is a blatant tactic to "dangle the carrot" and give you some hope so you will give her what she wants. Don't believe it for a second.

I can deal with staying here under the same roof. I need you to figure out what you can handle and keep that agreement. If we decide to live here together it needs to be amicably or else there is no point to any of this.

Some of what she is saying is reasonable, EXCEPT living amicably would mean NO OM and she's already said that's not an option.

You may be mad at me right now but I am still guarded and hurt too. I am doing what I need to do to keep from completely breaking apart and upturning this household.

That sounds like a veiled threat- "give me what I want or there will be hell to pay."

She's a wayward and there's no negotiating with a wayward. It's "my way or the highway" tactics. You might want to type out your planned response here so we can review and comment.

[AnthonyA]

Steve, that reply is opening up my eyes. ovrrnbw, after calming down and sleeping on it, it does make sense. Especially after hearing from you and Steve. This is a 180 of mine. I used to be impulsive and reply right away. I am now deciding to calm down and be level headed before responding or discussing these items. I will talk to her today and be calm.

Steve, I like the idea of accepting separation or D and just being there for the kids. After her text and not responding, I just played dominos with my three children as she tucked herself into her room. Her and I will just go in our rooms and shut the door from time to time. But that is not me. I like playing with the kids and doing things around the house. It keeps my mind from going crazy and such. I will make this a change. I can still read but I can read after the kids go to bed.

I will start to be more self confident around the house. I will have struggling days, I will have good days. I need to focus on getting out more. Taking the kids out more. Having fun. Doing things. Stop letting her moods or actions impact me. It is very hard. I still am focusing too much on the relationship and not enough on me or me and the kids. I feel better playing games with the kids too. We are laughing and having fun doing it. I just need to emotionally detach from her even though I still care about her.

I also usually am the cooker at the house. The kids have been eating a lot of processed food lately like pizza rolls and other not so healthy meals. It felt good cooking them fresh food for a change. I need to get back to that to get them to feel it being at least normal for them. Shows I am moving on with my life.

[neffer]

She’s WW Anthony, can’t follow her cycles. You need to mad GAL and be there for the kids.
Keep moving forward, no more MR talks. Stick to DB

Be strong there!

[AnthonyA]

So are you guys recommending kicking her out of the house or just letting her "cake eat" and I just move on with living my life and taking care of the kids, etc.

I don't mind if she is there. I just need to quit letting her attitude, emotions, actions, etc impact me and what I need and want to do.

I mean if we get legally separated, I would be paying probably more for her to go be with the OM through spousal support, etc. So either way, I am paying for it. I think I am ok with her being there. She has offered up the MBR and she can take the spare bedroom.

I just focus too much on the MR and not on me. There are a lot of things I want to do (GAL) that I have held back for the last couple months. Need to get back on it. I have not been doing my home improvement projects that help me. I have been exercising. I want to do more. I want to eat healthier.

[SteveLW]

Steve, that reply is opening up my eyes. ovrrnbw, after calming down and sleeping on it, it does make sense. Especially after hearing from you and Steve. This is a 180 of mine. I used to be impulsive and reply right away. I am now deciding to calm down and be level headed before responding or discussing these items. I will talk to her today and be calm.

Steve, I like the idea of accepting separation or D and just being there for the kids. After her text and not responding, I just played dominos with my three children as she tucked herself into her room. Her and I will just go in our rooms and shut the door from time to time. But that is not me. I like playing with the kids and doing things around the house. It keeps my mind from going crazy and such. I will make this a change. I can still read but I can read after the kids go to bed.

I will start to be more self confident around the house. I will have struggling days, I will have good days. I need to focus on getting out more. Taking the kids out more. Having fun. Doing things. Stop letting her moods or actions impact me. It is very hard. I still am focusing too much on the relationship and not enough on me or me and the kids. I feel better playing games with the kids too. We are laughing and having fun doing it. I just need to emotionally detach from her even though I still care about her.

I also usually am the cooker at the house. The kids have been eating a lot of processed food lately like pizza rolls and other not so healthy meals. It felt good cooking them fresh food for a change. I need to get back to that to get them to feel it being at least normal for them. Shows I am moving on with my life.

Anthony, I love this post! This is the right attitude and approach. None of us did detachment well for a LONG time. It is a work in progress for most LBS for weeks and months. The key is to keep it top of mind and work on it. In my sitch I saw such a different reaction from my W when I listened, validated, but didn't react. She EXPECTED a reaction. The other thing about detachment, it shows the WAS/WS that the LBS CAN control themselves. In my sitch my W didn't think I could control myself, and therefore she didn't trust my changes. Once I quit reacting to her emotionally, and was calm and measured even in the face of her dropping bombs, it made her go "Hmmmmm".

And being upbeat, pleased, and engaged around her had a profound effect as well. I know my sitch isn't exactly like yours but changes are always seen as manipulative by the WAS at first, until they see those profound changes in the LBS that start to convince them. Anyone can fake it, but when you truly start changing they will take notice.