I understand A can last 2 to 3 months, the DR book says most end within 6 months, but others can last 7 to 9 months and the other extreme, 1 to 2 years. Almost all of the A end. I am curious what causes most A to end. Do the AP get tired of waiting around for the S to leave their M? Or does the chemicals seem to just wear off on the own? Or do they have some type of argument or awakening that this isn't what they want?
I keep hearing and reading that the WW has to suffer a loss. What type of loss is that. Are there examples of this. How or what signs are there that the fog is lifting. I feel confident until I get around her and then I let her impact me. I was better yesterday. I just sat and laughed with the kids playing dominos. After she took a shower and came downstairs, I was just on my phone reading this site and the quotes page. I was laughing at some of the quotes (brutally honest posts that I found funny). She came down. Said a couple things and I just shook my head and then at 6:10PM, I just asked why she was still there.
I was waiting for her to leave to take the kiddos to Dairy Queen. She said not until 6:30 or so. I said ok, well have fun. And went back to what I was doing.
Cake eating is the glass half empty view. How about it being the gift of time? You get until she gets her master's to show her your changes are real and lasting, and that you are spouse (through detachment and GAL) that only a fool would leave.
But again, I am just trying to help you think about things, all of this is up to you.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I understand A can last 2 to 3 months, the DR book says most end within 6 months, but others can last 7 to 9 months and the other extreme, 1 to 2 years. Almost all of the A end. I am curious what causes most A to end. Do the AP get tired of waiting around for the S to leave their M? Or does the chemicals seem to just wear off on the own? Or do they have some type of argument or awakening that this isn't what they want?
Lots of reasons but it is rooted in one thing: that which is started in deception and lies isn't healthy for the long term. If you plant a diseased seed you will get a diseased plant. Most As are doomed to fail from the start.
Originally Posted by AnthonyA
I keep hearing and reading that the WW has to suffer a loss. What type of loss is that. Are there examples of this. How or what signs are there that the fog is lifting. I feel confident until I get around her and then I let her impact me. I was better yesterday. I just sat and laughed with the kids playing dominos. After she took a shower and came downstairs, I was just on my phone reading this site and the quotes page. I was laughing at some of the quotes (brutally honest posts that I found funny). She came down. Said a couple things and I just shook my head and then at 6:10PM, I just asked why she was still there.
You not cooking for her, cleaning for her, all those things you listed is a loss. You can make her feel a loss without leaving or getting her to leave. The best sense of lost to me is still detachment. Getting good at being detached had a profound effect on my WW. I truly credit getting better and better at detachment as turning my sitch around. Work at it. Hard. Nothing worthwhile in life is easy. Detaching emotionally and lovingly is hard. But when she tries to sting you with something she does or says and sees it roll off your back like water off a duck, she will start going "Hmmm, what is going on?!"
Originally Posted by AnthonyA
I was waiting for her to leave to take the kiddos to Dairy Queen. She said not until 6:30 or so. I said ok, well have fun. And went back to what I was doing.
Perfect.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So my FIL called me today. He is a retired divorce attorney. He tries to stay away from legal advice because he cannot interfere if I retain an attorney. He had an idea of the separation issue and told me about his idea. He is mad at his daughter and my W will not talk to him. I don't have to listen to his advice and he said he would not hold it against me but he wanted to try this approach prior to the other approach of going straight to D. My FIL is a D*CK to put it mildly but he is a big family man. He would do anything to make sure his grandchildren stay in a non-broken home so although he is a D, he does have a big heart. So with that, I will tell you what he said to get your input.
He suggests that I move out on a temporary basis of two week.(by the way, when I told him early on that she wanted me to move out back in late January, he was the one that told me to not move out and there is no legal way she could make me leave). He said the temporary separation would be via an agreement between my W and I and signed off by both of our IC therapists. It stipulates that this is only temporary and no legal impacts to this temporary separation that spells out that it will only last two weeks. The other stipulations (1) are that no male is to enter the premises at any time whether children are present or not, (2) visitations of me to see the kids at certain times or taking them out is allowed during this period, and (3) if for any reason, I can return prior to the 2 weeks if any other terms of the agreement are violated or if it isn't working for what I want.
His logic is based on that it would put all the duties of raising the children for two weeks on her to see how that type of life would be (he knows his daughter and she would hate it - I agree). It also makes me look like the victim in this (that is what he says). It will prevent her from going out and seeing the OM and keep her in the house to see how this world would be more often than not. It also gets the separation without having to go the D or S route. I think he had another pro but can't think of it. If I remember, i will let you know.
He then mentioned that we can then see how it went. We can extend it a week or I move right back in. He said with the counseling appointments, we could discuss how it went and go from there. Right now being in the house together, she doesn't truly see how the impact of not having the other person there would be.
So there you have his opinion. He has done a lot of divorces through his 40 years of practice. I can potentially do that and I can GAL and do what I need to detach, and learn to do things. The biggest con for me is missing my children on a daily basis. However, my son does have a phone so I would be able to text and/or call him. I have places I can stay too.
I just wanted your insight. He knows his daughter really well. His biggest concern of the ultimatum right now is that he is worried it could back fire and it proceeds down the D and gets ugly and breaks up the family. Again, he said that I don't have to take his advice and he would understand. He said that the emotional toll this takes on people, he would understand why it is hard to do. Any input on this....I still will talk to the attorney tomorrow and I can bring this up to him as well. I just want to make sure there is no legal impact but my FIL says that if the agreement signed off by both therapist and indicates that this is temporary and in no way gives up any of my rights for custody or any other rights, then I should be ok on that front.
Oh and I have never seen Gone with the Wind. He keeps bringing up that movie and saying how it parallels a lot of what he is trying to tell me. He wants me to reread the plot of the movie and then talk to him for 5 to 10 minutes about it this evening. Scarlet and Rhett. I haven't watched the movie or read the book but I might eventually when I have 4 hours to spare.
Gone With the Wind is a great movie pay attention particular to the part where Rhett Butler says "Frankly my dear I don't give a damn!" And walks away. This is how you treat an unsatisfied temper tantrum manipulative bratt of a wife.
Anthony, I'll be honest. This makes more nervous than a longtailed cat in a room of rocking chairs. He is STILL her dad. Why not get her to move out for two weeks? The number one reason lawyers tell LBHs that are fathers NOT to leave the home is because it can be viewed as abandonment.
I would vet his advice with your L. Make sure he isn't pulling the wool over your eyes, legally.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
This will be a question I present to the L tomorrow. However, trust me when I tell you that he and her are not talking. Neither is my MIL with my W. My W is not happy because they got involved early on and told her this was a mistake and she needed to cut it off with the guy and her BFF. My wife listened at the time but it only lasted 12 hours of not talking to OM. As her dad says, she did not lie to them but just couldn't follow through with what she thought she could do (AKA she knew it was wrong but is still doing it). The BFF lasted about 5 to 6 days prior to talking to the toxic B.
I know he means well and I told him that I have a forum (didn't say where) that has told me to detach, quit pursuing, make the changes in myself, etc. He liked all of that. He then brings up the Gone with the Wind movie every single time he calls me. He asks me to delete the texts between me and him because he knows that if my W ever found out, she would never talk to him ever again even if we got D. He is willing to lose that relationship with his D to try to salvage it. I mentioned that the L told me not to move out. Hell, my FIL told me not to move out.
He said that well that was just on moving out without an agreement stipulating that this is only a temporary 2 week thing that is signed off by both counselors and indicates no other legal rights are forfeited. He said to talk to the attorney about that. Once I retain an attorney, he said ethically he can't help at all even on discussions with me. But I know he ain't trying to pull the wool over my eyes. However, I will speak to an attorney tomorrow about this possibility.
A 2 week separation signed off by two IC's with 4 stipulations? Sounds like a major Hollywood production. You could always get out of dodge for a weekend or something. And get out of the house and GAL 3 or 4 nights a week, wouldn't that give her solo parenting duty without some intricate plan?
The fact that he knows his daughter really well is actually working against him and clouding his judgment. He wouldn't be either of your divorce attorneys, and he's just as ill-suited to be your marriage consigliere. He's too close.
Your communication with him is going to look very suspect in your W's eyes, not to mention you are trying to control her and hide things from her. That's manipulation Anthony.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
One big rule in DB'ing is DO NOT TALK TO MUTUAL FRIENDS AND RELATIVES ABOUT YOUR SITCH. PERIOD. Just don't do it. Blood is thicker than water, he is on her side not yours. I don't care if he says his W is mad and won't talk to him and blah blah blah. He is a lawyer, and he will tell you whatever he can to get his client's way. And his client is your W.
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He suggests that I move out on a temporary basis of two week.
Go back and read what all of us have been telling you. Don't move out. Her journey is going to take a hell of a lot longer than 2 weeks. It'll be a year or more. A two week separation isn't going to "prove" anything to her, except maybe that she's happier with you gone. If you move out now you are going to find it difficult indeed to move back in, and your W will really resent it and tell you how you are an evil bully for not giving her more time, and how she was just starting to change her mind but now you've ruined it all. And then you will think "oh gosh, I need to stay away longer since she's coming around" and you'll never go back. Then one day your kids will tell you about mommy's new friend that comes over all the time, and then what will you do? Go over and wave some toothless "agreement" around in the air?
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I can return prior to the 2 weeks if any other terms of the agreement are violated or if it isn't working for what I want.
Oh? And what if the locks are changed? Or OM has moved in? If you call the police guess what they will tell you- "dude you left voluntarily, you can't just walk back in, you'll have to take her to court." So you set a court date and months go by while you wait for your day in court. By the time you have it you've been out of the house so long the court is unlikely to find in your favor. Doesn't sound fair, right? WELCOME TO OUR LEGAL SYSTEM!!!!
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His logic is based on that it would put all the duties of raising the children for two weeks on her to see how that type of life would be (he knows his daughter and she would hate it - I agree).
Are you serious? You would surrender your parental rights just to try and prove a point that it's not easy taking care of kids by yourself? If you voluntarily give up your rights it's going to be darned tough to get them back no matter what that paper says.
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It also makes me look like the victim in this (that is what he says).
No, it makes you look like you don't care about custody of your kids or possession of your house.
Anyway you get the point. Please listen. Stay in the house. Focus on you and the kids. Give your W time and space. Quit trying to come up with "tricks" to "snap her out of it", they will not work.
Anthony please listen to them. My older brother went through the same exact thing stay in the house do not budge otherwise the legal system will look at it as you're alienating the children. Protect your property and your children and forget about the wife. and don't try pulling any tricks with W because I've been doing the same thing for 6 months and I'm telling you they're not going to budge. I'm at the point where it's "how is your day?" and that's it. We don't talk other than for the kids sake. I'm starting to get my finances in order and I'm pulling all the beneficiary names off of all of my retirement funds from her., if you're going to play hardball because of what she's doing I understand that but do it to where it benefits you not works against you especially with the legal system tilted in the woman's favor. CYOA!!!
