Meaning, she talks about how we all drain her and most days she just wants to run away.
Does she teach in a public school? What grade level? How well does she maintain her classroom? Does she complain about all the stress that's put on her (as the teacher) and that she doesn't have enough time to "teach"?
I could ask several questions related to her job, but to save time I'll just say I think she sounds like a woman who is stressed out. The quote above jumped out to me, b/c I can see her grouping you and the kids......with her classroom kids. You've all become like one big problem. She feels drained b/c her stress at work affects her home life. She is in a bad mood every Monday, b/c she has to go back to deal with her class. She has to deal with parents. She has to deal with the Principal.......and the ton of paperwork. She wanted to wait until the week after her observation was completely over, before returning to mediation. That makes me think she doesn't feel on top of things at work. How much does she talk about it? How much do you listen?
You've described how she doesn't pick up after herself at home. Is that out of laziness, carelessness, fatigue, or a lack of pride? I'm wondering if she has always struggled due to a lack of organizational skills. Someone who has great organizational skills has to keep things picked up and put away. Does her classroom look like her house? I only point this out to support the idea that the root of the problem may not be an unhappy MR, but an unhappy profession. It's one thing to love to teach, but as you well know......it's all the other stuff that can get you down.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
My STBXW is the same exact way. A teacher and a behavioral specialist, with all the stress at work, and at home with a one year old, she wants to run away too. She said she should have switched careers six years ago, and seperated from me over a year ago. She wants to start a fresh life being a health coach consultant from home, live either in an apartment now, or a one acre plot, and grow saffron and lavender, and saffron. (She kills cactus) and "follow her heart" even though she requires gastric bypass (which she is also quitting for the 6th time) along with her nutrition plans, and 5th yoga program, is a slob around the home, but loves to criticize me on my parenting skills. But I say.... "Follow your feelings and your heart" and "live your dreams" Nothing wrong with that, but it takes personal commitment and discipline. Only time will tell.. But I wish her well. Wolfman... Follow your own path, I know its hard but really try to take the focus off of the WAW/WW. And rightfully put it back on yourself. Your partners choices, actions, and lack of moral principles and discretion are out of your control. Focus on what you can control. I know that there are two sides to every story I'm sure there's a lot of these women have legitimate reasons, that are justified in their own minds for their unhappiness, I'm sure some of them are legitimate and some of them aren't to you. but you have to operate from your principles and beliefs, and put your emotions aside because they will mislead you
Sandi2 I'm going to chime in here on the organizational skills. Someone can have amazing administrative organizational skills, and poor physical administrative skills, and vice versa. Plus when related to to work, (more consequence) and home personal diaciplinr can be two totally different animals. This is coming from two people that are both fundamentally flawed in this area (At least one of us is willing to admit it.)
Sandi, She does teach in public school. She teaches 5th graders and does complain a lot about her job. From what she has told me about her job she has a ton of paperwork and that her desk is a mess just like our home. She is stressed from her job. She always talk about her job, so yes is the past there were times I would make a face because that is all she would want to talk about. Looking back, that was a mistake on my part. I needed to listen to her all the time, instead of sometimes. I feel she does lump everything together and all her problems just get directed at me. The validation is helping me. Yesterday she was in a bad mood and was on the attack. She expressed how angry she was all the time. So I asked her to explain what makes her so mad. She said why couldn’t I have changed a while ago, she wanted me to be like this a long time ago. And she doesn’t believe that my changes are real. She said no one changes lol me that. I said I understand your concerns but I told her I could truly understand if this was only for a week or a month but it’s been months I have been doing theses things (I know I got away from validation for a second). She says it shouldn’t have gotten to this point for me to make these changes. I agreed with her and apologized for not seeing my faults. One of the things that is driving her nuts, in the past when she would yell and scream I would yell back, now I stay calm validate and give her boundaries. When she yells, in a calm voice I ask her please don’t speak to me that way, in front of the kids I ask her to not yell in front of the kids. She tries to push my buttons and there are no buttons to push anymore.
M:42 XW:41 T:19 M: 15 D:13 S:10 BD: 8/10/18 Moved out: 8/18 Moved in: 9/18/18 Moved out: 4/22/19 D papers signed 11/4/19 D final 3/18/20
But it's almost as if women are asking men of the 21st century to stop acting like men and more like women? When it comes to emotional intelligence there is a good reason why both men and women both carry feminine and masculine frames. When the opposite frame dominates the existing person they don't exude their natural personality and sexuality. Ever notice of effeminate guys are with bossy women who manipulate and control them?
Myself I fall right in the middle I have a nice balance between the two, which I'm sure has made me passive aggressive on occasion?
If you are implying that listening and validating is wimpy or girly then you completely misunderstand it. It is simply communicating to her in HER language instead of YOURS. As a result, she will think you are more masculine and mature because you "understand" her and "know what a woman needs". The problem with most guys is that they are so busy acting like spoiled frat boys around their spouses that they start to think that is normal male behavior and it is not.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Quick question. Yesterday during the day my wife went out, did not tell me where she was going. I had plans to go out in the evening. She was not sure she would be home in time when I had to leave, so I got a babysitter. I was meeting up with friends at a restaurant. It just so happens as I am driving through town where there are a lot of bars and restaurants, she sees me driving and then calls me, where I was and I said the town and she said funny I am here too. She said what are you following me? I told her no I am meeting friends for dinner like I said. But she didn’t believe me. When I finally parked I text her if she wanted she could come and have a drink and I told her which place. Of course she said no. I know today she is going to probably ask questions or accuse me of following. How do I handle this? It is a very popular town.
She fired you as H, why are you suddenly concerned about what her perception is of your GAL activities. If she's asking you 20 questions then GOOD, because you WANT to be mysterious to her. Do not offer up any info if she doesn't ask. And if she does ask, just be brief in your replies. "Where did you go?" "I met some friends for dinner." "A FEMALE friend?" "No, it was a mix of people." "Who were they?" "You don't know them, just some friends from XYZ." Anyway, you get the point. Be honest but don't be overly open with your answers.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Yesterday she was in a bad mood and was on the attack. She expressed how angry she was all the time. So I asked her to explain what makes her so mad.
Great job of validating instead of dismissing her feelings!
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She said why couldn’t I have changed a while ago, she wanted me to be like this a long time ago. And she doesn’t believe that my changes are real.
Yes she still believes it's "too little too late". This is why you have to stock to these changes for a long period of time, because right now she doesn't believe them.
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I said I understand your concerns but I told her I could truly understand if this was only for a week or a month but it’s been months I have been doing theses things (I know I got away from validation for a second).
I'm glad you recognized that because that's exactly what I was going to say. When she says things like this just keep up the validation. "I hear you saying you are frustrated because I didn't change sooner, that must have been difficult for you to go through."
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One of the things that is driving her nuts, in the past when she would yell and scream I would yell back, now I stay calm validate and give her boundaries. When she yells, in a calm voice I ask her please don’t speak to me that way, in front of the kids I ask her to not yell in front of the kids. She tries to push my buttons and there are no buttons to push anymore.
Good, not sure why that would drive her nuts but stick with it.
My best guess why it’s driving her nuts. Since she doesn’t believe the changes are real she is expecting the old wolfman to show himself. But this is a whole new wolfman and it’s tugging on her conscious that she is divorcing the wolfman she always wanted. She is looking for reasons to justify her actions and I am not giving it to her. Again, this is just a guess.
M:42 XW:41 T:19 M: 15 D:13 S:10 BD: 8/10/18 Moved out: 8/18 Moved in: 9/18/18 Moved out: 4/22/19 D papers signed 11/4/19 D final 3/18/20
My best guess why it’s driving her nuts. Since she doesn’t believe the changes are real she is expecting the old wolfman to show himself. But this is a whole new wolfman and it’s tugging on her conscious that she is divorcing the wolfman she always wanted. She is looking for reasons to justify her actions and I am not giving it to her. Again, this is just a guess.
First, a little curiosity on her part about your GAL is a very good thing. Almost all WASs/WSs will eventually accuse you of seeing someone else. And they do that because either they still care, or because they want you to give them an excuse to continue on their path.
Also, your last post is dead on. My WW was always doing things to "test" me. To see if my changes were real or fake. I told the story about one of my 180s was to loosen control of spending. I had been doing all of the grocery shopping going back several years. So I told her, "I need you to take over the grocery shopping." I gave her no parameters. I didn't try to control it. I didn't even give her a limit.
She went and spent a little over $300. (I typically was spending $100-120 every week and a half or 2 weeks), I helped her carry them in, and put them away. And I remained upbeat and non-plussed by the overspending. Two interesting things:
1) She said: "I spent too much!" I didn't say anything." She then looked at me and said: "$500". I said, "Oh ok." Smiling. She then said, "No just kidding, $325."
2) She then said as we were putting things away; "Yeah, I probably overspent." I said: "Nah, most of what you got will eventually get consumed. Its not like you bought a bunch of perishables that will go bad quickly." (things like tuna fish, she spent probably like $25 on packaged tuna.) She said: "That's exactly what I thought too!"
The point is to 180 on how you would normally react, and cement your changes. It was easy for me once I framed everything as being that I loved her more than anything else not including God (1st) and my daughter (just as much).
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Where I live, the teachers are flooded with paperwork required by the State Department. It has become insane! Your W sounds as if she may have "burn out". Sometimes taking off for one year does a lot of good. Even if she worked at something in a totally different atmosphere .........the change just might save your M.
IMHO, her yelling was her way of trying to be heard over other racket. IDK, if she has to raise her voice to be heard over a classroom of chatter, chairs moving, books dropping, students moving around, etc.......but it's possible, right? So again, when she goes home, she is seeing a continuation of her work day where she has to yell to be heard. You can't change things at school, but what can you change at home?
I would work up a "Home Blessing" schedule, where you and the two kids spend ten minutes in each room of the house/chores. Divide the house into zones with each person assigned to a zone each week. Make it fun. Be a team or be competitive to see who can do the best job in ten minutes. Set the time clock with a loud buzzer and everyone stops when the buzzer sounds. (You may have to assign more than just one zone, IDK). Let the kids turn on their music while they work. Do it as fast as possible. Throw away as much trash and clutter as possible (but don't throw away any of mom's papers & stuff) There are websites that helps people who struggle with messy houses. They say to make it fun, and don't think of it as work......but rather it's blessing your home when you clean it. Make it a game with the kids. Brag on their speed and good work. Once they see how much can be done in just ten minutes a day, hopefully, you can expand to decluttering and other exciting activities.
This is just a suggestion. Talk to your kids and ask if they will join you in an experiment. You might want to tell them their mom has had a lot of stress at work, so this experiment will be for the three of you, while mom prepares for observation (or whatever). Set up a couple of rules....like, no fussing or complaining about having to clean up someone else's mess, or why isn't mom helping. No texting friends, no social media, etc; until their zones are cleaned. If it's successful in keeping the house in order, then I think it will make a big difference in everyone's mood.....especially yours.
Greet your W when you see her after work, and tell her goodbye in the mornings. Ask her if she needs you to do anything. When she comes home, (when you feel is the best time) ask your W about her day, and show true interest by looking at her when she talks.......I think it will allow her to vent her frustration. Don't tell her what she needs to do. Don't suggest squat! She just wants you to hear what she is saying and validate her. Don't get angry at whoever or whatever is causes her stress. She just wants her H to validate her. I really believe this could turn things around in a big way. And, if she thinks it's just a ploy to keep her from divorcing you.......then that's when you can tell her how it's come to your attention that you were focusing on the less important things instead of what was important to her. Maybe apologize for not giving her emotional support.
If she says something about you "making" the kids clean up, then tell her you want to figure out how to do team work with them. If the house chores can get done in just a few minutes, that would be quite an accomplishment, right? I don't think she would fuss about it, but the daughter might. Yeah, she might try to play daddy and mom against each other....but that's another story.
I remember an elementary teacher who was a single mom. She appeared to be the epitome of a highly organized person, always appeared to be in control, was nicely dressed, and conducted herself calmly. IDK what her house looked like, but she did admit that there was a rule everyone had to follow. When she arrived home, she went into her bedroom, shut the door, and nobody disturbed her for one hour.......including phone calls. After one hour, she would come out of her room and was ready to handle what was needed at home. She said some people might think it was selfish, but 60 minutes a day, gave her space, peace. and alone time to regroup. I don't think that's asking for too much for someone who deals with 5th graders in a small space for five days a week. She could take a bubble bath, go for a quite walk alone, dig in her flower bed........or just stretch out listen to NOTHING.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
AnotherStander. I'm not implying that all that validating is wimpy. It's a communication skill that really needs to be hones and address I'm grateful for Wonka putting up the cheat sheet on here as well as I'm reading. I Hear You by Michael Sorensen. I'm doing my best to put it into practice empathetically trying to 180 on Old behaviors and breaking old habits. The frat boy mentality is a severe problem in our culture today and I will agree with you on that.
The point that I was trying to illustrate however is why is it that 60 years ago, men acted like men and women acted like women. Both clearly using their own style of language women understood men and men understood women without too much difficulty. Then in the eighties the culture shifted and women ask men to be more sensitive, ironically this is what turns them off now and now women have developed somewhat of a masculine frame in our culture and a lot of the men have developed in the effeminate frame. Neither one feels natural. A typical wife working wife of today will complain that she's so stressed out between the kids the house the duties and the workforce, putting them into a masculine frame. the man today is even more unavailable because he's juggling just as much as well in some circumstances and he's even more distance, with all the electronic distractions of today TV media Sports etcetera, and people wonder why marriages fail today. I really believe that this is a divide-and-conquer method implemented by pop culture and media. women love reading romance novels and building up fantasies inside their minds of how things quote-unquote should be, as well as paying attention to all of the media that revolves around this with Desperate Housewives and The Bachelor excetera excetera. Men have been taken over by the fantasy of porn, sports, divisive politics, and a legal system stacked in the woman's favor deliberately. I'm not saying a woman shouldn't follow her dreams in the workforce and be equally paid in contrast to a man, I'm not saying that women should be dutiful Housewives and be barefoot and pregnant, that is just wrong and sexist. What I am saying is that in America 60 years ago when the nuclear family was able to live off of one paycheck and the husband was a breadwinner and the wife was the housewife it worked a lot better and there's a lot more morals and much better dynamics of the nuclear family. This is what is missing today by Design. Feminism has sold women rubbish and a bad bill of goods as well as some women's empowerment although well-meaning, too many women today apparently have the mindset that they are the prize they are entitled and that they don't need a man. There are a lot of undertones of misandry with this
Sandi. I know she is probably burned out. i told her she should take off one year or switch careers or go to another district. But she refused all of it. Mostly because with our 2 incomes we live anger comfortable life, we go on multiple vacations a year, go out to dinner all the time, put the kids in various activities, etc. she does not want to give all of that up. She said if she took off for one year then we wouldn’t be able to go on vacation. I told her it would just be for one year. She said she would rather work and suffer and still go on vacation. Unfortunately, my W is very competitive and where we live people are constantly going on vacation and she compares our lives to everyone else. That always drove me nuts because we did so many great things but it never seemed like it was enough for her. Honestly, tell if this happened to anyone else but Facebook is a huge problem. All she does is go on there and say, “see look what so and so did, and look these people did that, and this person is going here.” She felt the need to constantly keep up or one up. She never felt satisfied. That’s why she continues to work. It’s just sad that my W believes that divorce will be better for everyone. Especially when she has recognized the changes but doesn’t want to give it a shot.
Question: One of her complaints about the marriage was that I didn’t text her all the time, like during the day to say hi or how she was doing. I did it maybe once a week but she wanted it all the time. I know I’m not suppose to pursue but should I text her during the day to ask how her day is or just to say hi? Thanks everyone you have really been helping me!!!!!
M:42 XW:41 T:19 M: 15 D:13 S:10 BD: 8/10/18 Moved out: 8/18 Moved in: 9/18/18 Moved out: 4/22/19 D papers signed 11/4/19 D final 3/18/20
I only point this out to support the idea that the root of the problem may not be an unhappy MR, but an unhappy profession. It's one thing to love to teach, but as you well know......it's all the other stuff that can get you down.
