Quotes found on Divorcebusting (7)

[Ready2Change]

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We can argue about how "wrong" a WAW is but the fact of the matter is her PERCEPTION is her REALITY. So even though what she is saying may be outrageous and patently false, it is still how she sees things.

A lot of LBS's struggle with the fact that a lot of this just doesn't make sense. They think if they could just explain things to the WAW then they will help her to see the light and emerge from the fog. The more they try the worse they make their situation though, because they are not dealing with someone who is thinking logically. The WAW is a whirlwind of emotions and raw feelings and you simply cannot beg/plead/negotiate/ rationalize with that. It's very hard for us to even imagine their mindset, but it would be like you losing a loved one and you're in that whirlwind of emotions and grief and you have someone telling you "well yeah but I lost my favorite pair of socks this morning and I don't understand why you don't feel bad for me." Your reaction would be outrage that this person brings their petty little problem to your doorstep when you are completely overwhelmed with grief yourself. Follow what I'm saying? That's her attitude- "I've been hurting so deeply and for so long, and now you want me to turn my life inside out because you've been hurting a few weeks, how dare you."

This is why we constantly push people to listen and validate. She really is hurting, so if you set your own pain aside and you listen, and you validate her feelings instead of constantly hitting her with "poor me I feel worse" then maybe she'll actually start feeling like you care.

[Ready2Change]

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Pretty sure we've gone over this before, but again, NOTHING YOU DO RIGHT NOW IS GOING TO BE ANYTHING BUT CRAP TO HER. Read that. Understand it. Burn it into your mind. Her perception of you right now is this: you are lower than dirt to her. She doesn't like you and may even hate you. You are responsible for every bad thing in her life, ever. Heck it's probably your fault that a bully stole her lunch money in the 3rd grade. Right now you are coming here every time you interact with her and basically saying "I'm DB'ing and she's still being mean, why isn't it working?" It isn't working because the results aren't instant. The results take TIME. A lot of it. It rarely has immediate impact.

So what do you do? You give her zero ammo to hate you. You do that by pulling back and leaving her alone, but doing it in a polite, respectful, loving way. Don't be cold and indifferent. You walked in and sat elsewhere and didn't say anything to her until she said hi to you. That's not giving her space, that's being cold and indifferent. Sit next to her, it won't kill you. You are still coparents. Sure if she has some OM there then sit elsewhere. But if she's alone then sit with her. Do you want S and D seeing parents united in support of them or sitting on opposite sides of the room like something out of War of the Roses?

[Ready2Change]

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It would be pressure if you sat next her and said "why are you leaving me" or something along those lines.

I treat my ex like a business partner. We will sit together at games and events.The product we are selling is my kids future. We will discuss together everything we need to discuss to ensure the products sells. We may also occasionally discuss the weather and I will even joke with her sometimes. Once in awhile things regarding family members but I will not discuss with her intimate details of my life. Those days are over. Not her business anymore.

It's going to take a long time before you will feel comfortable around her again but it will happen at some point.

[Ready2Change]

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She asked for a hug and I said no.That was really really hard to do, I'm craving physical contact, but she doesn't deserve my comfort.

Well it's your choice but a hug isn't going to be the end of the world. Personally whenever XW asked for a hug I liked to flip the script on her and give her either the side-arm hug or the slap-on-the-back hug like you would do an aunt or uncle or something. Those were the kind of hugs she gave me after BD so turnabout is fair play

[Ready2Change]

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This question is for everyone, it’s about wearing my wedding ring. I was wearing for the entire time. But when she paid the mediator to get the paperwork going I took it off. It feels so weird and heartbreaking that this is where I am at. Do I put it back on? I guess the question I am asking what are the pros and cons to having it on or off?

You are married. You should wear your ring until you are no longer married.

[Ready2Change]

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Where I was going with my last post is confidence. Either you are your W's husband or you are not. By your own judgment and standards and beliefs. Everything you do, think, decide, feel, and act, do with confidence, for yourself, your family and your marriage, stop regretting past mistakes and learn from them and move on. I'm starting to realize that Satan wants us trapped in doubting ourselves in fear and that we can can't earn our way back to our self worth.

Don't let your wife determine your self-worth. And don't let your wife determine how you act around her. if she says something or ask you something and you aren't ready to make a decision on then state such. Trying to be confident and decisive in everything you do.

You don't have to reconcile today or tomorrow or at all. take the pressure off and just enjoy one day one moment one hour at a time with no expectations. If possible try to enjoy your wife's company if she's not being rebellious, one minute at a time

[Ready2Change]

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If your W wanted those things before this boiling point, keep reminding her that the both of you are in the here and now, you are willing to address those things in the here and now, you are aware of those things in the hear and now, and you are willing to make good and try and change those things in the hear and now. If she responds "too little too late", validate her and say I'm sorry you feel that way" and that you think this is the perfect growing opportunity to learn, grow, and put past differences and resentments aside. Put the ball back in her court, and let her know that you are there if you ever want discuss it or address it in the future. Do all this without bringing up the marriage or the relationship or the status of it. (Think here and now with no pressure of status or proclamation.) That is being present my friend.

[Ready2Change]

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My W's love language is word's of affirmation. When she was wayward, and we were in the throws of our sitch, I would find non-sexual and non-visual compliments to give her. "You always have such keen insight into such things." "I am amazed at how well you handle stressful situations." "Your perspective is always so good when it comes to conflicts between people." I would thank her for some of them. "Thank you for helping me see it with empathy, I wasn't doing that before."

[Ready2Change]

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I'm a different person, I wouldn't have been able to do any of the things that I've done this past year (08/09) recently if I hadn't taken back those raisins I call balls out of her purse. LOL! Yes it's funny when it's put like that but the analogy is somewhat accurate, I own "them" again and I'm smiling while I write this.

- I wouldn't have moved back into my home
- I wouldn't have demanded and rec'd equal shared/joint custody of my children
- I stopped allowing her to talk horribly to me anymore, before I would just take it, shrink in my corner and never stand up for myself, now I stop her in her tracks and ask her to leave or hang up (depending if it's in person or on the phone)
- I don't beg or plead for her to come back
- in fact I packed her things and moved her out just last month (seriously I would have never thought I was capable of this)
- when she openly discussed a night of bar hopping with her girlfriends and all the "hot" guys they were hanging out with, I pretty much told her to shut up, that it was extremely disrespectful to talk like that in front of me with other people around as if to mock me and she totally went silent and was embarrassed (with a whisper of "it never bothered you before" coming out of her mouth at which point I replied that it always bothered me that someone who I loved and was supposed to love me could hurt me so easily in person & in public)
- she is the one who initiates hugs and polite conversation now, otherwise I'm quiet and just go about my business if she happens to be visiting the kids if she is in the area
- when I don't pay her any attention, she notices it, I think it actually hurts her, I've seen the reaction in her face and she has mentioned that it seems so easy for me to move on, that this doesn't affect me anymore and truth be told, it is getting easier

[Ready2Change]

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Yes it's your dear old "uncle rob" (the forum prick you love to hate) ;-) and I'm looking for advice....

It's been a while since I shared a bit about my own situation.
I started out on these forums spilling my guts and getting alot of good feedback and then I decided to pay it forward when my personal life started improving to the point where the outcome of my marriage/divorce didn't matter as much to me, I detached from that outcome and enjoyed my life and seriously it has been good, I would dare say that 2009 was one of the best years ever regardless of my current situation.

I kicked my wife out in January 2009 when I couldn't handle the lies & deception anymore, she lives with her parents now. We have 2 children that we share custody of, at first she had dictated when I would see them and then I stood up for myself, did the legal thing and secured my rights as a human being and a parent (note I never mentioned my rights as a man, I have the same rights as a woman, no more, no less).

Even kicking her out, she had been a constant in my life throughout alot of 2009. I found out about an EA/PA she had at the beginning of January 2008 (a year before) which was a couple months after I had rec'd the "bomb" (ILYBINILWY) and all the good bits that go with that WAW script (you all know it, no need to repeat it). We did alot of things together with the children and sometimes separate of them as well, I can say that I have had more sex with my wife during my separation than I have ever had during my entire marriage preceeding the separation - not just any sex, I'm talking the kind of unrestricted XXX butt wild monkey love that I used to only imagine in my dreams. We went on trips together but also have fought like cats & dogs and she continued to do things that would disrespect me and I would continue establish my boundaries which she would try to cross over and I would hold my ground until she backed off & apologized for whatever rude behavior she was displaying.

Great sex is great but after a while I wanted more, not needed but wanted. I got in great shape, took care of myself & my appearance, my personal value skyrocketed, I haven't felt so good about myself in such a long time and really became quite passionate about the topic of being a great person & a great man to all of my friends that were going through similar situations, I became the go to guy, the friends that needed help couldn't get enough of me, the advice I give them is counter-intuitive to anything they think they should be doing and it gave them better results than what they had been doing. I've almost considered setting up a website and writing a book on the stuff that I know that actually produces results.

However after living in limbo for 2 years, I knew that not every situation could be fixed, regardless of my new found education in this area, I wasn't so egotistical to believe I had the magic touch to cure everything. But I had enough personal strength to know that my life was worth it, to start over and make something great with someone new.

At the beginning of November I told my wife that I wouldn't be living in limbo anymore. She either committed 100% wholeheartedly to repairing our relationship and making a great marriage or I would be cutting off contact with her, no more sex, no more going out, no more coming over, I told her she HAD to have the kids 50% of the time (even though we have joint custody, I would usually have them @ 80% of the time due to her part-time job schedule, me living close to the school and being able to work from home, etc) and that this is how life will be going forward. I told her I would put the house up for sale in the spring, pay off our debts, split all of our assets 50/50, file for divorce, get an apartment for the kids & myself for a year or so, and then look for a new home in the same area to allow the kids to keep going to the same school.

Her decision was that she wasn't ready to make that decision, after 2 years of living in limbo, I was. You see it wasn't just about me anymore, I realized that this was a horrible thing that my kids were learning, they were seeing that this is what relationships are about, mom & dad living separately but still being together every now & then, with mom staying for weeks at a time and then being away for weeks at a time and I just wouldn't tolerate that anymore. I made the decision to end living in limbo, I DECIDED that I had enough of this. I DECIDED that I would move on and enjoy my life and whatever it would bring me. I started packing up whatever household items belong to her (she only took the clothes that I packed in her van) and placed them in boxes and request to her to pick them up. I have started cancelling credit cards that have both of our names on them that have $0 debt on them, any mail that comes to the home that is meant for her, I contact the sender and update them with her parents address, I've changed the look of the home to make it our place, in general just moving on.

I started dating in mid to late November, just to get used to it again and it wasn't difficult, I found that I was pretty unique amongst most of the guys on the dating website that I signed up for, for the first time in my life, I was popular with the ladies, I go a ton of first dates, alot of 2nd dates (and 3rd dates), no sex, it's not that I couldn't have sex, I just want to save that part of me for someone I wanted to have a relationship with. I was having quasi-daily sex with my wife for the past 1.5 years without any real emotional connection and I wanted that so I didn't mind holding out (I have also discovered that holding out sex from women that want to have sex with you pretty much makes them extremely "hungry", I'm in my late 30's and I have been dating women in ages ranging from 25 to 40).

FYI - Throughout all of this I've been an uber responsible parent, my personal life (ie. dating) isn't part of my children's reality, I keep it separate from them and I only date on those days that I don't have my kids and I never bring my dates home with me. I've kicked up my parenting ability another notch and the bar was already pretty high and the kids and I have been living a great life for the past year, they are young and now more than ever, they want the security of a strong family/parent(s) and it's my job to give that to them. I've discussed the separation & divorce with them, told my wife what we were discussing, offered her to come & discuss this with me because they want to talk to her about it all the time and she refuses to do that. My children ultimately want their family to be together but they are learning and I've been loving & nurturing with them, I always reassure them that we will be ok and we will. I am always happy with them, we have a ton of fun together and I'm showing them that I'm happy, because I want them to learn how to be happy as well.

Well enough of that hoopla, seriously I could go on & on with the story and it's details but I will fast forward to yesterday and today.

My wife came over yesterday to drop off the kids for the week, I have the kids on the 24th and she will have them on the 25th, this is something we both decided on together. I told the kids to say bye to their mom, to give her hugs & kisses before she goes but she decided to stay and asked me if she could talk to me for a bit. She wanted to talk to me in what was our bedroom, she closed the door behind her, I was just standing in front of her and she started crying. She misses me, she loves me, she wants to come back, she is sorry for everything she has done, she knows she caused the bulk of the problems, she wasn't "well" (referring to some depression she was dealing with and still is), asks me if I still love her. Honestly I just stood in front of her without too much emotion and asked her how could she do this before christmas, I told her this was all just feelings spurred on by christmas and that they will pass, she has always been like this in the past and then she flip flops back & forth to "I didn't mean it, I don't know why I said this, etc." I told her that I felt bad that she was sad and feeling like this but it wasn't being fair to me to put on this display before christmas, told her I was moving on and that I'm ok with how everything is going because life is good and it's going in the direction that I want it to go in. She got angry, raised her voice, said some hurtful things, left the home, slammed the storm door, etc.

She came over today, wash rinse repeat, same behavior as yesterday, same thing, the crying, tears, I love you, I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt you, etc. I mentioned to her why she refused to reconciling a couple of months ago when I told her that I was done waiting and she said because she was stupid and didn't know what she wanted, etc. I told her that plain & simple, the person that I'm with will know what they have when they're with me and won't take it for granted and that she's been taking me for granted forever and I couldn't tolerate her EA/PA when it happened along with multiple other repeat behaviors over the past 2 years - I wasn't her doormat and I wouldn't just let come back into my life so easily, I would be stupid if I allowed that and I'm not that person anymore. She cried some more, professed her love to me, asked to hug me and hold me and I did feel bad for her but I reminded her that I told her that this day would come and when it did it would be too late for her. I also told her that I was tired of her lying to me, constantly deceiving, hiding things, and I could never tolerate that in my life. I even told her to spill the beans on the guys that I know that she had affairs with and she still couldn't spill the beans, she had to hold on to those lies, telling me it wasn't as bad as I assumed it was (how bad does it have to be?!) and she told me that even if she told me the details, how would she know for certain I would take her back - my reply was pretty much "Well you know for certain that I'm not taking back someone who is dishonest & lying to my face, you have my 100% guarantee on that", the conversation continued for a bit like this and I told her that she was just repeating the same thing over & over again and lying to me was just her attempt to control me and my reactions to what she had done and I wouldn't put up with that anymore. She mentioned "marriage counselling" and I told her that it's only good when people are honest about what they've done and then I asked her to leave because I was busy and needed to get back to work. She told me she loved me several more time, asked to hug me again and left in tears, I did feel bad for her but I wasn't going to let real or crocodile tears give her the "Get out of Jail" card for free.

Without honesty there is nothing and my life is too good right now to go back into a relationship/marriage that is filled with lies. She has since called me more than a dozen times today apologizing for calling too many times and then repeating the same conversations and she has been texting me/emailing me constantly - I don't want to say it's scary but its certainly getting uncomfortable.

Feedback, comments, suggestions.
(saying that this post is too long to read is cool too, I can take it)

If you ask me if I love her, I'll tell you I do.

But I can't allow lies & dishonesty back in my life, after purging that filth from my life I can pretty much guarantee you and anyone else that I won't live with that anymore and I don't want to be anyone that doesn't value me or the relationship they have with me.

I've added my personal touch to a few of your threads, now I'm looking for some feedback on my own situation. If you have some 2x4's to throw my way please do so if you think I've acted in error. Seriously though, I've never been this confident in my life, I never backed down during any of this, even when the conversations took some tangents and she started getting rude & angry, I held my position without being an a$$hole and I could tell she knew that.

p.s. It's taken me over an hour to write this post in between the constant texting & phone calls she's been sending my way.