Detaching pretty well right now. Her arguments are one sided. I don’t respond and move on. I have so far dropped the rope as my BIL has said. I might have detached too much. I am to the point that I find her unattractive with that hate and angry tone and personality she now has. I have felt this since Sunday. I have started doing more research in divorce and or dissolution. I just am not in love with this woman any more. I have been happier and healthier since she moved out.
I am in the best athletic shape in 15 years. I feel happier and more productive at work again. Feeling good. I know I am supposed to continue DB but I am right now looking forward to being divorced and moving on with the better me. I am taking a few weeks to decide but I feel good.
I'm glad you're feeling better, I too have recently made some progress in detaching and feeling a lot better for it. On the initiating D question I recently had some very wise advice from Steve & AS on my thread.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Lusa, Steve is right, when you get to the point of wanting to initiate D yourself it has nothing to do with hoping you'll wake your W up or snap her out of it. I mean I can hardly believe I have to say this (but this isn't the first time): divorce is NOT a tactic to save your marriage! That would seem to go without saying, LOL! Anyway as Steve said, when I got to the point of pushing the D through it wasn't out of anger or malice or desperation. I was ready to move on. I didn't have a care in the world who she was messaging or spending the night with or whatever. It just didn't matter to me anymore. The woman I fell in love with and married was long gone at that point, and the person who replaced her wasn't someone I was attracted to or had much interest in seeing or interacting with beyond co-parenting. All the LBS fog was gone, the rose-colored glasses were off and the decision was made based on what was best for me moving forward.
You have to get to that same point, and you have to be there a long time before pulling the trigger in my opinion. If there is any question or doubt in your mind then no you are not ready yet. At first you may go 4 or 5 days convinced you want D and then have a day where you question it. You are STILL not ready if that happens. When you get to the point where whenever you think about it you think "yes that needs to happen" and there are no doubts ever, and you feel like that for a month or more, then you're getting there. Honestly in the months before D I didn't even really think about it that much. It wasn't something I laid awake at night thinking about. But when I did think about it my thoughts were usually "yeah we need to get this over with". IE, the marriage had been over a long time and it was just a formality that needed to be taken care of.
LBH 47 WW 47, M 15 T 18 D 11 S 14 BD, I moved out (duped) Jan 18 3 yr EA with ex-H discovered: Feb 18 I moved back in: Aug 18 (against her wishes) ...No R No M/C, continued limbo, dropping the rope!
Definitely not a tactic. I just do not care about our relationship anymore. I have been too busy focusing on me and the kids that I don’t think about her much except when she texts me or tries calling. Just not in love with her anymore. I am going to take a few weeks to pull the trigger but doing all my research on refi of house, value of cars, etc to get my romana es ready plus spousal support for a couple years. I am completely detached right now. I know it is a continuous battle but she has made it easier being so rude and hateful. My self worth is more than what she is treating me so I will move on and be better for it. Much of luck in your sitch.
"In-love".... a phrase that I really feel a lot of ways about. You certainly shouldn't marry or divorce based on such a fleeting feeling.
Originally Posted by AnthonyA
I am completely detached right now.
Wishful thinking.
And then I think about her, some of the things she's seen you do, and I wonder how hard it has to be for her. Of course, that doesn't justify what she's been up to, but I don't think you need to just never respond to her. If you were still in deep pain, then maybe cutting off communication would be worthwhile. But a detached person wouldn't simply stare at someone talking to them and not respond. Now if you aren't responding b/c she's throwing a tantrum then I understand that.
I also wonder where you are at with breaking some of those chemical habits and changing your thinking about some things? I hope you are keeping focused there.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
"In-love".... a phrase that I really feel a lot of ways about. You certainly shouldn't marry or divorce based on such a fleeting feeling.
Originally Posted by AnthonyA
I am completely detached right now.
Wishful thinking.
And then I think about her, some of the things she's seen you do, and I wonder how hard it has to be for her. Of course, that doesn't justify what she's been up to, but I don't think you need to just never respond to her. If you were still in deep pain, then maybe cutting off communication would be worthwhile. But a detached person wouldn't simply stare at someone talking to them and not respond. Now if you aren't responding b/c she's throwing a tantrum then I understand that.
I also wonder where you are at with breaking some of those chemical habits and changing your thinking about some things? I hope you are keeping focused there.
When I say I don't respond, I don't respond to her negativity or texts to me that are to start an argument. I answer her questions as needed and as short as possible. If it is about the kids,I answer, but it it is just a response to tell me something like information, I just don't even say OK on the messages.
Why do people think I have a chemical habit? I have not drank any alcohol or felt the need since Jan 28th. I did that to hang out with people across the street and since my wife was drinking. I have been working out and feeling healthier. I work out every night while the kids are in bed. I am reading, taking care of me. My BIL is my life coach as I call him and he agrees that he can tell a difference in my attitude, and my look out. My IC has said the same thing. I feel better. I am not worried what she does or says to me. Her attitude does not impact me. I am moving on with my life. My children have unfortunately been numb to her since she only visits for a few hours each weekend. She rushed them off to bed last night after only seeing them for a couple hours saying she had a long day and was tired.
If you go look at page 1 you mentioned excessive drinking, alcohol affecting your personal life, anti depressants, hanging out with alcoholics, marijuana, promiscuity, sleeping pills etc. You not drinking in 2 months is a pretty good sign that you aren't chemically dependent. I just remembered reading all that. I am hoping you didn't feel attacked b/c I think you're making great progress.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I am not worried what she does or says to me. Her attitude does not impact me. I am moving on with my life.
Moving on and being happy.
Well forgive me for being skeptical, but 2 months would be record-shattering short time for true detachment. I don't think it's possible unless you weren't really in love with her to begin with. What is far more likely is that you are trying to convince yourself you're detached, and hey I get that. We all want to rip the band-aid off and get the misery over with. Unfortunately grief recovery doesn't work that way. It's not linear, and it's not something you can just choose to shorten. Just be very careful because if you are ignoring your feelings or burying them deep inside then they will explode out 10 times worse at some unpredictable time in the future. The shortest path to recovery is through the pain, not around it.
So I got back from a spring break trip with the kiddos. My W wanted to talk tk me when we got back. We spoke about dissolution. She had went through the paperwork again and I had other things there that I was unaware I had. The do’s and donts from the website here. It was a copy and paste and cleaned up in word so no website was divulges.
We spoke about the dissolution and how I just don’t see a path to reconcile. She agreed. We spoke some more and we came up with some agreements and discussed the past a little (she did) and I told her I do not... she interrupted me and said, I know you don’t want to talk about the past. I said that it isn’t that I don’t want to talk about the past but I am done arguing about the past. I also told her that I am done apologizing for the past. She mentioned that well the OM was in the past. I asked her if she still talks to him. She said on occasion. I said then it is not the past but the present. We discussed a few more things about the kids and our history. She finally admitted that there were plenty of fun times together that she hadn’t mentioned in months. Everything was bad or unhappy times just a month ago. She couldn’t come up with one happy time a month ago when we spoke.
So we left the conversation with us both coming up with our view of a dissolution since 100% agreement would be needed and she left.
She also has noticed some changes. She said that my taste in music has changed and thought I was being hateful. I said I am not hateful. The hard rock gets me pumped for my workouts. She then mentioned how clean I have been keeping the house. Everything in its place and neat and tidy. She also mentioned that j am reading s lot which she knows I never liked reading. So she has noticed my 180s. I have been working out like nonstop as well. I am feeling like the best shape of my life in 15 years.
Another thing was her BFF was here at my house while I was at work during the first part of spring break. I told her that she is not welcome in this house. That was another reason that I am looking into dissolution because I am done with the partying and I believe her BFF is a toxic person and some of her other friends she is hanging out with are not ones that I want to have part of my life going forward.
I then get the following email from her that she must have wrote up right after our conversation:
Quote
Thanks for the talk. It’s been very difficult Anthony. When we have conversations like we just had I feel better and more positive about things. Like there could be a chance. Then it backfires the next day or so... I do better with communicating when we’re both level headed.
I’m still very torn right now. This has absolutely nothing to do with a third party. Nothing whatsoever. You’ve gotta understand that. I wanted to leave because I was unhappy with us not because I started talking to someone else. I wouldn’t give up 17 years for some quick feelings for a stranger I just met. I know I said some [censored] to you while I was drinking and you also have to understand that it’s an over reactive response(because I was very drunk). Plus my emotions have been up and down with everything so how I might have thought I felt at that moment is not how I feel right now. I’m sure you can relate.
You also have to understand that if I decide to come back home(and if you agree on that as well) it’s b/c I want to get us to work and I completely got rid of the third party. You will just have to believe me. No handwritten notes. Just trust and being honest with each other. I’m not going to do something out of my normal realm like write a note. That’s not me. I am also not getting rid of my friends. I can allow space where you two aren’t around each other but I’m telling you all decisions I have made have been my own. She did rub off on me a little in the beginning but I straightened up before we started going to the bars. That’s the truth. The excessive drinking was just my response to the turmoil I felt our relationship was in. I was trying to take all of my pain away and feel numb. I’m a very emotionally expressive person and I act out in the fashion I have because of it. It’s part of those grandma genes for sure and hell you know how my dad is….Has nothing to do with BFF or anyone else. I’m intense. I have come to realize that. I am a very dramatic and an intense person. I think you struggle with that because I am opposite of how you are. I don’t know if you can handle that. I truly don’t and I don’t mean that in a bad way I am just honestly not for sure.
I am totally fixated on where I feel we are at right now. I have been looking for anything and everything to tell me which direction to take. Lately I’ve only seen the bad so I’ve focused on dissolution or divorce. Then I talk to you today and I’m having mixed feelings… I am looking at how we do in communication and getting along and if I have feelings still. I can tell I still have feelings for you. I don’t know if they’re accurate or if I’m just trying to hold onto something that isn’t there anymore. Like a façade. Does that make sense? A lot has happened. Trust has been broken we have both been dishonest. I have had trouble with you being emotionally withdrawn for a long time as well and I tried to cope and compensate through other means. I can’t keep doing that it has [censored] me up. I need more and I just don’t know if you can get there. I’m such an intense person Anthony I just don’t know if anyone can give me what I need. I’m probably better off alone. That’s why my grandmothers lived alone I know it.
For now I would like to continue at least what we’re doing since we’re on the same page and in decent communication. I will start working on the dissolution stuff and then we can get together for a conversation to see if we can come to an agreement. I don’t want to file anything. I just feel like we should at least have things set in case. Continue what we’re doing and try to keep on good terms with the communication. I’ve felt even more distant from how I perceived you were being. I think that is what the issue is on both sides. If you can continue with conversations like you had with me today it would be beneficial.
Wow. Anthony it sounds like your W is not only coming to terms with the present, but likes a part of the new you and the communication dynamics you are implementing.
Also Anthony a part of me understand your wife when she talks about her personality and her intensity. The parts where she says
"Thanks for the talk. It’s been very difficult Anthony. When we have conversations like we just had I feel better and more positive about things. Like there could be a chance. Then it backfires the next day or so... I do better with communicating when we’re both level headed."
" I’m a very emotionally expressive person and I act out in the fashion I have because of it. I’m intense. I have come to realize that. I am a very dramatic and an intense person. I think you struggle with that because I am opposite of how you are. I don’t know if you can handle that."
This resonated and stuck out with me particularly because I am an emotionally intense person with no filter. 10 years ago, a month after my wife and I were married, I lost my job due to some extraneous circumstance, but also continued to struggle with other certain jobs loss all throughout my life, due to mild impulses, or mild learning disabilities or anxieties. Anyway. 10 years ago I was assessed as not having ADD but ADD like symptoms, poor executive management, poor time management, performance frustration, and even an very mild auditory processing impairment for receiving verbal instructions with my left ear. Bare with me here as I an getting to my point. I was also assesent from my neuro psych interview 10 years ago as having possible BPD characteristics, and negative like thinking due to familial history. When I'm sad, people know it, and know about it. When I'm frustrated, confused, or upset, people know about it. When I am critical of myself or others, people know about it. When I'm happy and having a great time, people know about it. Im very expressive and not the type to bottle emotions and stuff things down. But they need healthy regulation. This im sure amongst other things has caused my marriage to deteriorate on my part. My W in the past has called it "the Dr. Jeckyl Mr. Hyde effect"
In other words one hour I love my W for who she is, and the next hour, I come across as critical and pissed at her, having called her lazy a few times in our MR, for sitting on the couch all day watching TV, playing games, and leaving her messes for me, which takes time away from my open ended projects for the last 7 years, for not cleaning up after her messes for 10 years, which costs me time and energy.
So I looked into BPD (Boarderline Personality Disorder) more after W BD'd me as a form of emotional regulation and therapy. I realized that I verbalize my feelings a lot with people close to me, and am the type that doesn't hold anything back, or anything in. When I am frustrated, W has perceived me as scary. I believe my reactions are somewhat normal, but could be less frequent, with less intensity. A few times I have banged the counter top in frustration. This apparently scares her. Its a bad learned behavior of mine. Sometimes I have said words impulsively without thinking of consequences, that once the barn door is open, I cannot take back, all for the sake of venting.
I have learned that in relationships, people with BPD, we are exciting and attractive people in the beginning, but have difficulties maintain very long term relationships due to emotional regulation, black and white thinking, a desire to have empathy, but a mild inability to express it, and other things.
Although I am only in my 3rd session. What BPD CBT/DBT training is about is about is emotional regulation, thought process, chain of event, triggers, etc. through identification, and assigned exercises.
May be helpful and useful to you if you look into all the different personaliy types, BPD, and also the different cluster personality types, and how they play out in relationships. Such as Cluster A Cluster B etc...It may give you some valuable insight on how to relate and communicate with your W better.
