Persistent Endurance (Part 2)

[curtis7]

H:"W, I want to understand what I am signing. Please send me a copy of the docs so I can review them tomorrow"

Been a few days since I’ve posted, been busy with GAL, coaching baseball, and giving W space and distance while home. I’ve had minimal communication with her, mostly small talk here and there and complete avoidance once kids go to sleep.

Here was the response to the doc request:
W: “I don't have a copy!”
W: “I will ask though”
H: No reply

Still haven’t received any docs to review.

New text from W: “Asked the kids and they want to sleep in same room. I found some cheap bunk beds. Wondered if I could go pick it up tonight? Probably will make them most comfortable for now if they can be together.”

I’m really struggling with this, a huge feeling of loss came over me when imagining a future where my kids are not in the same house. The other thing that bothers me is that she is talking to the kids about these arrangements without involving me.

[LH19]

C,

Have you had the talk with the kids?

[curtis7]

C,
Have you had the talk with the kids?

Nope, my S8 senses things are off. He and I pray sometimes that our family stays together. I have not told them that she plans to move out.

[LH19]

I would let her know that is not acceptable to you to discuss with the kids about her moving out when you haven't both sat down and discussed it with them first.

[curtis7]

so she could just be open about what she is doing with other men and stop having to hide it.

When you are ready and the opportunity presents itself, flip her words back:

H:"W,The other day, you asked me to be honest with, and I was. I would like you to be open and honest with me. Will you do that?"
W"Bla bla bla bla OK?? bla bla"

Can you handle the truth? Can you listen to W without judgment? Can you validate (IE let her know you hear what she is saying without judging her).

Will it do any good? I do not know. Will it gain you respect? I do not know.

I followed R2C’s recommendation and said “W, the other day, you asked me to be honest with you about whether I was on a date and I was. I would like you to be open and honest with me. Will you do that?”

W said okay and I asked her if she was interacting with other men. I told her I’m not going to judge and that I just want to understand. She said not sexting like she was before, but there are a few that keep contacting her from the dating app and won’t leave her alone. She said the relationship with 25 year old OM1 is completely over.

I validated her and she started to go into how she thought I was a loose cannon and didn’t know what I was going to do next. She referenced the cryptic messages where I’m vague on my whereabouts when I’m out GAL. She said it’s manipulative and thinks I could be stalking her or having her followed. She said I ruined her night (the one where she had the hotel reserved), when I asked her to take the kids with her to divorced BFF’s. She said she was very upset with the girls that night and was ready to contact a L, but didn’t follow through.

She went on to say that she wants her freedom to do whatever she wants whenever she wants. I validated by saying I know. It seems like W and I are both in a similar state of mind continuously wondering what the other is going to do next.

[curtis7]

I would let her know that is not acceptable to you to discuss with the kids about her moving out when you haven't both sat down and discussed it with them first.

I told W I haven’t received the closing docs to review yet, and she said she hasn’t either. I asked about the parenting arrangement with the kids since she will be moving out this week. She said she would like the kids to stay with her a few nights a week. I said this was different from what we had discussed in January where the kids would stay in our marital home with me during the week and with her every other weekend. She said this was at the recommendation of the MC we saw a month ago that said the kids would be confused by her going away. She was visibly emotional when talking about not seeing the kids in the morning and her eyes were slightly watery. I validated and said I wish things are different and she agreed.

I told her I wish we would have discussed the parenting arrangement and schedule in advance before she talked to the kids. She acknowledged there’s not going to be much for the kids over there for a few weeks. No TV, internet, limited furniture. I asked who she was going to inform about the separation such as family and friends. She said several of them recommended she talk to a L, but she hasn’t yet because she said that would make all of this more complicated right now and she wants to give this a chance to figure out how she feels. She said that would be more than weeks and couldn’t really say how long that would be, she said maybe 6 months, she doesn’t want to put a deadline on it. I continued to validate and said yes, we both need time and did not offer alternatives or pass judgment.

She said she’s waiting for my claws to come out and drop legal documents on her. She has been been told by several people to get everything out of the house that she wants before she leaves. She told them she’s not going to do that right now and wants to try this her way.

[SteveLW]

curtis, sorry man. I know this is all rough. Hang in there.

I can't remember, did you talk to a lawyer yet? I always advise LBSs to at least have a consult with a lawyer as early as possible. I think sometimes that can help snap the WAS to reality. Most WAS, and certainly WSs, feel that their S and D can just be done smoothly and without roadblocks. They have this kind of glamorized view of S and D. I think you are seeing that in your WAW's behavior related to the kids. It is all rainbows and unicorns and they can just change things on a whim.

My WW had this crazy idea that we could spend $200 and file online and bam, we'd be divorced, with all custody of our daughter settled. I immediately told her I was skeptical of that plan, and that I could see that if we didn't have kids. In my snooping that followed I saw she had done searches on steps for divorce in our state, and it was a 11 step process when kids were involved depending on how mediation went, with multiple court dates for judgments on our "agreements". Etc.

I then told her that her plan that I would keep the house, D and I would live there, with my W floating in and out with her own apartment, and playing "house" when it suited her, wasn't going to work for me. (It was clear to me she wanted to be free to date and sleep with whomever she wanted, but still have a family to "come home" to. I said I would be selling the house, splitting the equity (after paying off debt (we don't have much, but car loans etc)) and then I would be moving in with a friend of mine. We'd have joint custody, and depending on the job she landed, I'd be paying child support. All of that started to pop her "unicorns and rainbows" delusion, and hit her in the guilt department. When she protested I flat-out told her "It is no fair for you to think you could get a fresh start, but not expect the same for me."

All of that went a long way towards breaking her delusion related to how simple all of this was going to be. How non-disruptive it would be for everyone, and that the path to her new life was greased and an easy ride.

But the last thing that burst her bubble was the fact that I consulted a lawyer. I still remember the morning I told her that. She looked like she had been slapped. Please take my sitch with a huge grain of salt because its turnaround was so atypically quick, but I really that that last piece (talking to a lawyer) was the catalyst. Along with my 180s, GAL, and detachment, she started to come back to the marriage. The fact that I was taking a lead on the D made it too real for her. My W was at the point where the idea of the single life was appealing, but she was trying to get there as problem-free as possible. She wanted a magic-wand to wave to put her in the perfect position with all of the gnarly, thorny parts smoothed over. When the reality that it was going to be hard, bloody, with multiple court visits, and now "he has a lawyer!!", all hit her, it started to wake her up.

Wow, that got wordy. The short version is that if you had consulted an attorney, when she talked about a lawyer if you could have said "I already spoke to a lawyer and highly advise you to do so too. Not because I am going to get my "claws out and drop legal documents on you", but because we have to make sure everything is done appropriately, legally and so that the court dates, which will be necessary, go as smoothly as possible. Maybe this apparent "unicorns and rainbows" view of S and D that she has would start to be replaced by the reality of what the process really entails.

[Bo562]

My WW had this crazy idea that we could spend $200 and file online and bam, we'd be divorced, with all custody of our daughter settled.

My W talked about how we could be divorced for like $750 or so, just by filing some paperwork, and her parenting plan would have the force of a legal document. That was a couple of months ago.

I’ve let her do most of the ‘dirty work’ about this, and then she gave me papers. I have consulted with a L previously, but now she and I have both retained L’s, and this past weekend when she blew up at me she wants to keep things out of the courts as much as possible.

Steve—it IS like a script, sometimes, even literal same playbook.

Curtis—I’m sorry dude, but it will get better.

[curtis7]

Steve, I did talk to a L a few months ago when W initially shared her desire to buy a house. We primarily discussed my liability to that property and marital rights and didn’t get too much into the parenting arrangement. I’m comfortable with what’s going on right now, but will monitor how her actions play out closely with the kids to decide whether I should re-engage the L.

My W doesn’t know I spoke with a L. Ideally, I would like to wait a few months before letting her know about L involvement. This gives her the time and space she feels she needs to experience her freedom, but also gives her a dose of reality while I work on improving myself and transforming further into H only a fool would leave. The gift of time.

I’m actually feeling pretty good today, about to head to the closing to find out what they are asking me to sign. Moving out is what she wants and I have not stood in her way thus far. As much as I think it will be more difficult for her to see my 180s and GAL when she’s out, I was getting extremely sick and tired of seeing her text and troll for OM right in front of me. Living with someone that is blatantly and actively betraying your MR tears you apart when you aren’t fully detached.

It’s too bad this wasn’t all part of some elaborate April fools joke, lol.

Any recommendations on what to say to W at the closing? I was thinking:
“Enjoy”
“Congrats, our first foray into being slum lords.” (W and I discussed this becoming a rental property if we R)
“I hope you find happiness”

[Bo562]

If anything, I would say the 3rd one.

I wouldn’t do sarcasm. Okay to feel it on the inside, but it’s good to conduct self with relative class.