Yes, we still do the weekly dates. There have been a few weeks that we couldn't make it work, but we've been pretty consistent.
Thanks for the post. Good stuff. Like I said, this is mostly just me and my OCD and anxiety issues that I am projecting on her. I need to continue to check myself. I am bad about thinking my way is right and any way that deviates from my say is wrong. Been the source of many problems in our marriage in the past.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Found this while searching for another post. And wanted to repost it as a cautionary tale. Unfortunately, this story is completely true:
Originally Posted by Steve85
The earlier discussion in this thread about "success" (I know Nicole you were wanting success in R) related to our sitchs really got me thinking.
The movie "War of the Roses" came to mind. Success if D or R is if everyone comes out of it unharmed and healthy. While "War of the Roses" is an extreme fictional tale, it is cautionary in that those that do not take care of themselves can let things devolve to a level where things can escalate and people can get hurt.
Let me tell you the true story of Larry and Liza (names changed to protect the innocent. And the guilty).
These were dear friends of my W's and mine. We loved them and were named the guardians of their kids in case of untimely death to both of them. Liza and my W shared a special bond and considered each other the sister they never had. Larry was one of the sweetest men you'd ever meet, with an unbelievable tenor voice. He is the best singer I've ever personally known. He sang in a couple of quartet gospel groups.
Liza was raised in the same church as me. My wife converted when we were dating, and Liza was kind of hesitant because of her upbringing. She now belonged to Larry's denomination, but they were rarely there because Larry was always traveling with the gospel quartet.
We got together with these friends as often as we could. We watched their family grow, they watched ours grow. They were amazing friends, and we reciprocated. Though we lived an hour a way we both made special efforts to get together at least once a month, sometimes more.
Eventually Liza started to grow weary of the teachings of the denomination and her and Larry began studying with our minister. We'd watch the kids for them while they studied. Eventually Larry was converted and Liza and he began attending a congregation in their area. Larry gave up the gospel quartet singing as it increasingly took him away from worshipping on Sundays with his family.
Eventually Larry got involved with several guys from church (a preacher, elder and deacon!) to form a covers rock band. Larry's voice was incredibly similar to Steve Perry's from Journey, and their Journey covers were so unbelievable.
About the summer of 2005 things started to change. They weren't in contact with us as often. They were making plans with us as often. At the time we didn't think much about it as people get busy and time can go by.
At new years 2005 we were invited to their house with friends from church for a new years party. Liza seemed to be a bit distant to my wife and I. It was subtle so I kind of blew it off at the time. Chalking it up to the mix of people that were at the party. A couple days later I sent her, with my wife CC'd, an email saying how much we enjoyed the party and getting together with Christian friends where we didn't have to worry about the kind of activities that would go on at the party.
We never received a response. Which was strange. Again we didn't think much about it.
Larry's cover band were asked to be an opening act for a local Kansas concert and Larry wanted my W and I there! He called me that summer to set it up and get us tickets. (My W had to work the day of the concert so I attended alone.) It was kind of odd that Liza didn't handle this as she was usually the one to do so. (This was the summer of 2006).
I went and Larry rocked it. One thing you have to know about Larry was that he was a lifelong Type 1 Diabetic. Having grown up in a religious family his lifestyle had fallen away from that in his younger years, and his partying caused his diabetes to eventually cause him to go legally blind. Though he could see he couldn't see well enough to work (disabled) or drive. He was in a boot from an ankle break (just stepping down off a ladder broke his ankle) during the concert, but it was one of his really good days and his voice was incredible.
He mentioned at the concert that the band was going to play at one of the member's house on Labor Day, and he wanted us to come. I told him to call me with the details.
In August Larry called me to give me the details of the Labor Day party the band was playing at. I asked him how things were going. He said: "Things are going great with the band. Not so much with Liza and I." This was shocking news. He told me she had said she didn't want to be married anymore and that she wanted him to get an apartment near her and the kids.
I was devastated as I hung up the phone and told my W about it. She was perplexed. The next day she called Larry and told him that there had to be someone else, that this just wasn't Liza. Not someone must have been influencing her. Liza was such a strong Christian that she didn't even want her kids watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang at our house because she was afraid it glamorized witchcraft! (I didn't agree with her on that but it was her kids.)
Larry began to investigate. He found emails between her and a male coworker. There were hints at "business" trips she had told Larry she was going on but they were trips with this coworker, non-work related. Larry was devastated when he called to tell me his findings.
He and his brother hired a PI, and that is when the evidence began to mount. She was rendezvousing with this guy often, mostly during work hours. By time Labor Day rolled around Larry was ready to confront her. He was being advised not to, to let the noose tighten more around her neck. He talked to my W and I for a longtime at the Labor Day party, which Liza wasn't even present at. A woman that 2 years prior wouldn't have missed a chance to hang out with us, and she wasn't even at her husband's concert.
That night Larry confronted her. She admitted everything with this new guy, that they were in love and were going to leave their spouses to be together. Larry's marriage effectively ended that night.
The stress of everything took a big toll on Larry. By time Labor Day rolled around his kidneys were starting to fail. By the end of 2006 he was on weekly dialysis. His ankle never would heal properly. And he was starting to have other effects from his diabetes.
As Liza moved forward with the D, her and the new guy bought a house and moved in together. She did end up getting fired as the company the worked for put 2 and 2 together related to the two of them missing so much work, and then getting married. By summer of 2007 the D was final, Larry was in his own apartment and Liza and the kids were with the new guy in their house.
Larry started a friendship with a woman at church and Liza was not pleased. Suddenly she had a "I don't want him but I don't want him to be with anyone else attitude". She began making Larry's life miserable related to the kids. Larry loved his kids, but remember, he couldn't drive. She refused to bring them over so he would have to go visit at her house, but he had to find a ride to do it. Luckily his friends from church were very good to him and though he had to bow to other people's schedule he would get to see his kids regularly.
Liza however continued to make things difficult. One of the kids was having a concert at school. Larry got a ride to it, but the stress of dealing with Liza got to him that night and he ended up collapsing at the concert and getting rushed to the hospital where he went in to ICU in a coma.
His female church friend was there as much as she could in the few days he was in ICU. Including the night Liza showed up. Liza ended up beating this poor women to a bloody pulp. When the hospital staff found her, they put the hospital on lockdown and security began looking for Liza. They never found her, she must have already left.
Larry never came out of the coma. (Typing that causes tears to well up in my eyes.) I honestly believe the stress of Liza's affair, leaving him, the D and her behavior afterward are what killed Larry. We miss Larry very much to this very day. Just this morning I was singing a song his quartet used to sing and my W asked me to stop, it made her too sad.
Liza and my wife do not talk. After Larry's death my W wrote her a long letter confronting her on several things she did. The theme of the letter was "this isn't you Liza! This isn't the Liza I knew and loved." She never got a response. That year at Christmas the Christmas card we sent her came back "Return to Sender". We haven't spoken to Liza since New Years 2006.
The point of this long diatribe is that this stuff has a real capacity to end lives. War of the Roses highlighted that in a comical, satirical way. But you don't have to look to far to see where this stuff can have serious health effects, and can cause one with compromised health to die. Larry lived about a year after his discovery of Liza infidelity. And while the A didn't kill him, Liza's spitefulness (probably rooted in her own guilt), I believe, did.
So success to me in this stuff is seeing everyone come out the other side, no matter the outcome, healthy. Both mentally and physically.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Glad everything is still going good for you, Steve. You're a real inspiration and a true asset to this board...
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
Thanks guys. mtb I refer to you and the rock you were in your sitch all the time to newcomers. You are to be commended for how you took care of your kids!
Oops, you're not stupid! We talk struggle at the start. You'll get there.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Jim, thanks for asking. Thing continue to be doing well. W and I continue to be connected. Weekly dates (occasionally missing weeks but pretty consistent.) We are very affectionate. So it is going well, and this is the best our MR has ever been. Including right after our wedding.
The best update is that things are going much much better with my D!! Her and I have been doing more things together. Her friends like me so I think that helps, but she has been much less angry and bitter towards me. I am afraid it will go away as quickly as it got better so I am trying to tread lightly.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So it has been a while since I gave a proper update. And something happened that made me realize I needed to share.
First, the piecing and Ring continues to go well. I continue to refer to it as "in progress" so that I don't let down my guard and start to regress like I did after BD 2005 and Ring after that. And in that vein:
One of the things that started to happen was my weight began to go up. W and I were enjoying each other's company so much and eating out together, we both started to put on some weight. When my pants started to get tight I knew I needed to do something. I haven't gone up in pants size since my late 20s, so I refuse to buy bigger pants.I will either get cut in half by my waistband, or lose weight.
So I started a keto diet. Keto always works well for me, and so I immediately embarked on eating very low carbs. One of the side-effects of a keto diet is in the first few days of ketosis, you get keto-flu. They are flu like symptoms of headache, body aches and fatigue. So I was fighting that. And my nerves were starting to get a little rawer than I normally allow them to get.
I got home from work one day and the dishwasher was still full of clean dishes, sink was full of dirty dishes. And I needed to start to prepare myself a keto-friendly meal. Not to mention I was mentally worn out from work. So I started to feel the same old anxiety, frustrated, angry feelings coming.
So I took a deep breath, told myself that if I wanted the kitchen sink cleaned up before I started cooking (something that I have always preferred) then I needed to realize it was on me and do it myself. I was very proud that I had consciously caught myself before reacting (Old Steve). She heard what I was doing and said "What are you doing? Don't put dishes away I am going to do that!" I said very cheerily, "No, its okay. I can help out around here once in a while." It was so much better than 2 year ago when I would have been critical and passive-aggressive.
So my transformation continues. Self-awareness is a huge key to this stuff. Knowing what you need to do do control yourself, and control you reactions.
It also shows me that 180s are ongoing. Do not let your guard down. Continue to work on and improve yourself. Your personal relatinships will be much better off for it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
