Hey so the most intense R talk we have had yet just occurred. Before I get into it I want to say thanks hurt. I realize that being a good father should be my number 1 focus. Right so my W got home from work. I was reading in the bedroom, our S sleeping in his crib. I ask her about her day, really listening and validating, seemed like it was a really good conversation. I tell her a bit about my day and go back to reading.
She then says something along the lines of “I want more child custody because I will miss him too much”. I deny saying we had already come to an agreement a few days ago. Support money comes up and I mention I saw a lawyer and know exactly how much I should be paying which was less that what she suggested.
She seemed pissed I saw a lawyer and this kind of erupted into the R talk. She seemed to think I saw the lawyer with D as my intent. I told her I saw the lawyer to know my rights and to better understand custody and support and that I didn’t ask the lawyer about divorce process.
From here she started talking thinking about hypothetical situations in the future and said “so what you start dating a girl and divorce me when it’s convenient for you?” I reinforced that I did not want to get a divorce (this was said many times this R talk lol).
We then transitioned into talking about what had gone wrong. She was very vocal and sounded pretty angry at times which was different because our previous R talks she seemed pretty calm and almost apathetic. Her complaints were: I barely helped her with our son since he was born. (Although she has been more involved, this isn’t true. I have spent a considerable amount of time and effort with our son. I think she is just trying to see the worst in the MR.) A big complaint was the video games. Although most days I used to only play an hour to chat with my buddies, she made it clear that she felt she was coming second in my life and this was very hard for her. She became very upset when talking about this part. She also brought up that now I’m buying new clothes when she’s been trying to get me to do that for a year or two.
I did a poor job at handling my emotions because I spoke to her with frustration. But I validated well and apologized and said that I was being dumb and just shrugged off her opinions as nagging. I said that if I had known that this is where things would end up I would have never played the video game again.
She was still upset and said the typical WAW stuff: I do t care I wanted that stuff a year ago. At the height of her frustration she said something like “I’m done!” Things cooled off after this a little and we talked about rules of our separation. This is what annoyed me. During this part of the R talk she was talking as if this separation was my idea and almost seemed to be placing it on me, even though it is her who wants to separate.
She said that she is looking forward to going out with her friends more. Which she did extremely rarely during our M. I asked her why she didn’t spend time with her friends during our M and that I never controlled her or turned her away from her friends. She didn’t have an answer for this. It’s strange because I have kept up with my friends but the last few years she hasn’t made an effort to see her friends. I feel as if she blames me for this but I am not controlling at all and have no problem with her hanging out with friends.
We next talked about seeing other people during our separation. Once again she shifted blame to me and said how much I was going to be sleeping around. I replied with Readys quote: I don’t have any intention of complicating my life with another woman. I am still focused on making this marriage work. She then said that we should basically be okay with making out with other people but told me no s*x. I don’t really believe this and if it’s going to be that kind of separation fine, I will see other people.
At this point I clarified that I still wanted to make this work and that our son is better off having parents who are together. She responded “well he is screwed then”. This really set me off and I calmly said: “if that’s how you feel you are already completely checked out and we should just file for D.”
This was the turning point of the R talk. It was like she hit the brakes at the word Divorce. She then started saying things like well maybe I will miss you during this S and we can see if it will work. And then spoke of counseling saying maybe she would want to do it down the road. (This is an improvement over a week ago when she had 0 interest in counseling). She then talk about hanging out with our group of friends together which I replied that I thought would be weird. It was strange that at the thought of divorce she seemed to be second guessing herself. I then said it’s fine we both just need time to be on our own and think.
This R talk gave me hope oddly enough. From her angry reaction as opposed to her normal apathetic reaction to R talks it almost seemed as if she cared. Maybe she is seeing all my detachment and 180s and is skeptical that my changes will last. Or maybe I shouldn’t believe anything she says lol. No matter the outcome I will be a better person.
After this R talk there was no tension and we even joked around before she fell asleep. She said something like “don’t try to have s*x with me tonight. I responded that it wouldn’t mean anything. She replied “it does matter. I’m not done random girl. We are married”. Interesting. Thanks to anyone who made it through that wall of text. Your input is appreciated.
Had the same exact convo with W 2 months ago about seperation rules, sex, other people, the alleged controlling, ect... Just ignore all of it. They are projecting. They are trying to control with their ground rules that they don't have any intent on following themselves. They don't know WTH they want. They want you one week, the next week you are chopped liver, the next week you are to blame for all the issues in their lives, they next week they see some change and temp check you. Stay where you are. Parked in neutral. Keep your feet planted. Keep it light and pleasant. Discuss logistics. If it segways into R talks. Listen and validate belriefly but SHUT THE R TALK DOWN IMMEDIATELY!! Do you really want to drive yourself crazy every time your W changes her mind on a weekly basis. Be polite, neutral, but removed from the MR. It's a "he loves me, he loves me not" mentality with them.
The hopeful long game outcome is you stay detached, emotionally consistent, and neutral every time your W goes either way. Your focus is you, not her.
1.) She has to realize after she leaves or after you let her go, that life is better with you. (This could take years.) 2.) You are the more attractive, consistent, emotionally stable, cool, calm and collected option. 3.) She has to pursue you, has to have total motivation and initiative to want it VERY BADLY, and work for you. She's leaving, she's staying? It shouldn't matter to you either way.
1.) She has to realize after she leaves or after you let her go, that life is better with you. (This could take years.) 2.) You are the more attractive, consistent, emotionally stable, cool, calm and collected option. 3.) She has to pursue you, has to have total motivation and initiative to want it VERY BADLY, and work for you. She's leaving, she's staying? It shouldn't matter to you either way.
Thanks IHCLACS, you are right. The last week she has transitioned from logistics to R talks multiple times. Every time it gets my thoughts going. How do you recommend shutting these R talks down?
I will continue DBing. It seems as if she if very uncertain and insecure about her goals at the moment. I will continue to be detached and emotionally consistent. Thanks for the info
Things cooled off after this a little and we talked about rules of our separation.
Like what? No dating; no bringing OP around your child; no adult spend the night with son there; not leaving your child with someone else to keep? You can try to have agreements, but when you are already separated, whatcha gonna do? Unless you have the law to back you up, don't expect her to follow a list of rules. That's the whole idea behind her getting out, so she can do whatever she wants. Have a schedule for who keeps the child when, and have personal boundaries. You can't control her, just as she can't control you. She is going to date, so buy that business of her just wanting to get out with her friends more.
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She then started saying things like well maybe I will miss you during this S and we can see if it will work. And then spoke of counseling saying maybe she would want to do it down the road. (This is an improvement over a week ago when she had 0 interest in counseling). She then talk about hanging out with our group of friends together which I replied that I thought would be weird.
She's just throwing you a bone.
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I replied with Readys quote: I don’t have any intention of complicating my life with another woman. I am still focused on making this marriage work. She then said that we should basically be okay with making out with other people but told me no s*x.
You are both full of it. I don't suggest using a quote you don't mean. Can you remain celibate while your W is going out with other men? Do you seriously think you'll stay away from the ladies when some are already giving you their phone number?
How old are you and your W?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Yes we came up with a schedule of who will have our son on what days. And we did discuss the boundary of no random OM or OW around our son but yeah I guess you are right. I can’t control anything she does and I’m not trying to.
Maybe she is Just throwing me a bone but if her goal is to get away from me and D then I don’t understand her change of attitude when I suggested D.
My hopes are that we can work things out for my son. I am hoping for R but expecting D. No I will be involved with other woman because I believe my W will be doing it too. I am not just going to sit around and wait for her to figure things out.
You may be right about using that quote but I wanted her to know that I would prefer to work things out with her rather than date other girls.
We are both 26. Together for 6 married 1. We dated for a year after high school and broke up for 6 months. During that time we both saw other people and partied a lot. She eventually tried to get back with me saying she had made a mistake and wanted to talk. I put this off and ignored her for a month. Eventually we started hanging out again and slowly got back to dating and then moving in together.
I know that things are very different now but the situation almost seems the same as the last time we broke up. I am open to R down the road knowing that during this separation we will see other people. I could not R if I stayed celibate while she was out with other people. I feel pretty detached at this point and while I would love to R someday I feel that I will be fine if we don’t. Thanks for the input Sandi
Maybe she is Just throwing me a bone but if her goal is to get away from me and D then I don’t understand her change of attitude when I suggested D.
The WW does not see her H dumping her. She is arrogant. She is a controller. She wants her fun, sleeping with other guys, but she wants her H to stay home alone, grieving over the loss of his W. This is what was behind all her questions. And it is why I hammer on the LBH's that they can't go around reassuring her that he will wait until she makes up mind! A
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[/quote]WW is not going to be attracted to that type of man? Nobody knows better than a wayward W that she deserves to be kicked to the curb. She has more respect for the man who will dump her, than one who waits in limbo for her return. It is difficult for a man to see his W in this framework, b/c it is so opposite of what he wants to believe about her.
[quote]We are both 26.
(((hugs)))
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We dated for a year after high school and broke up for 6 months. During that time we both saw other people and partied a lot. She eventually tried to get back with me saying she had made a mistake and wanted to talk. I put this off and ignored her for a month. Eventually we started hanging out again and slowly got back to dating and then moving in together.
Okay, so what does that tell you about her? What do you think would have happened if you were there telling her any time she was ready to get back together just let you know? She had to see that you weren't so easy to get back the second time around. That is human nature, but it especially true with a wayward W. She needs to work to get the H back. Make sense?
I know things are more serious now, b/c you are M and have a child together. I just want you to consider the human nature side of it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks Sandi that all makes a lot of sense. I think that I have made it clear to myself that I will not wait around for her but I don’t think I’ve made it clear to her. I should be more direct about that. Although I would consider R in the future, telling her this while she is WW will do no good.
