180 Counterproductive?

[oops13]

So adopt. There are no guarantees in life. I don't care if you spend $3 million. Do you both try to control everything so tightly?

Kind of, yeah. We have trouble ruminating.

[SteveLW]

Thanks, Steve. 10-4. I've been ramping down, so I guess I need to keep ramping.

I admit I still love her so it is hard. I am getting closer every day, but unfortunately I tend towards anxiety and I have an incredibly active, detail oriented mind (this has served me incredibly well career-wise, but not so great for this situation).

Loving her means to love her on her terms. She asked for time and space. Give it to her because you love her. If you truly love someone you want them to be happy, no matter what that means. This was a truth that helped me so much in my sitch.

Loving is not trying to control. Not trying to keep her there against her will. Is not trying to manipulate her through DBing or anything else. Loving her is to give her all of the time and space she needs to figure this out, no matter what the outcome.

My guess oops, if you were completely honest with yourself, is that your actions are being motivated by fear. Fear of D. Fear of losing her. Fear of being alone. Not by love.

[oops13]

Yes, there is definitely a fear component here. It's getting better over time though.

We never tried to control *each other*, which was nice. But I see what you mean.

[oops13]

sandi, since you asked about how we know each other, in my other post I forgot to mention that she's been looking for a new job (without telling me at least for a while)

[oops13]

Working with them really [censored]. I tried to go out and enjoy my lunch and stay detached today, but it appears they went to lunch together and she rode with him (of course she's told me they don't go to lunch together in the past).

Even so, I keep oscillating between wanting to work it out and just filing myself because of how much it hurts. But then I realize I shouldn't be thinking that way and am forced to take ownership of how awful I was for years and that my lack of backbone, manhood, leadership, and basically being a man-child led her here, and that hurts worse. I can't imagine her ever respecting me again after all of that. But all of that is the kind of thinking that got me here: impatience, frustration, over-thinking, and lack of optimism and respect for myself and her. Phew.

[oops13]

Talked to the OM for a while today. Kept it cool. I suspect this is a one-way thing for her tbh. Started as WAW because he is giving her excitement but it's not like he's really *into* her. Hard to know what I'm dealing with. In theory I guess it shouldn't matter, I just assume there are distinctions in how to act which I read about but seem to have forgotten.

That said, the relationship symptoms are the same.

[oops13]

Weird night last night. She brought our looming anniversary vacation that was planned then limbo'd back up. I told her going to another country as "just friends" is a non-starter for me, since she hasn't indicated that she wants to improve the relationship. She asked how I would feel about her going somewhere alone, I plainly told her to do what she has to do.

She said that we "used to be so close now theres so much distance" basically couched in terms of barely friends anymore since I've been detaching, maybe with too much withdrawing I admit, to which I responded "yes. you have space". She said she's trying and that she does want to work on us and grabbed my hand, and said she would rather us go together and get away from the norm and stress even if she "cant be a real wife" right now. I think in this case she means that like a "be passionate and kissy" euphemism.

At this point I told her I am willing to do something in the US, and gave her 3 choices of places. In my mind though, I'm skeptical that this is cake eating or temp checking or something. I have enough friends. That said, I told her to go alone and she seemed to strongly want to do something with me. The mental health stuff really clouds this up though, some of this might just be her depression/instability.
I saw two interesting things over her shoulder. Firstly shes looking for a new job. Secondly her IC sent her a book to read for fixing marriages.

Anyways, I worked on some plumbing projects last night that were stressing both of us out. She seemed warm with me in conversation last night, made her laugh really hard picking on her some.

Doing my best to have no expectations on any of the above, and maybe I can have fun surfing. Im surprisingly calm last night and tonight.

[oops13]

I'm having trouble navigating one thing, and that's the fact that I haven't set any boundaries with the OM or blown all of this open. I think she doesn't know that I know, and I'm almost okay with that from the perspective of not wanting to force them underground more.

But also, early on, when she told me he wasn't anything, I said "oh okay" because I didn't want to display any jealousy or insecurity. This makes the whole vacation thing awkward. I may need to assert more that I do not want to go as just friends next time it comes up, but I cant decide if I want to confront about the OM. I'm not even sure she knows what she is even doing is wrong, but the grass is definitely being watered over there more than my grass. Im temped to tell her that if she "wants to work on us" as she says, that she needs to back it up by ending her inappropriate conduct, but doing so reveals that I know, and I'm sick of talking about the relationship any more than I have to. But, in being cool about it, I'm also leaving myself open to being weak perhaps.

Also this morning she said ILY and gave me a hug when I left. We made eye contact and did the peck while going out the door kiss. It didn't feel like pursuit, but I'm being wary.

[SteveLW]

So many mistakes................

Talking to OM? Reading over her shoulder.

She wants to go on vacation but just as friends? And you don't think that is cake eating?

oops, how would you grade yourself on the main three tenets of DBing: GAL, detachment and 180s?

[SteveLW]

I'm having trouble navigating one thing, and that's the fact that I haven't set any boundaries with the OM or blown all of this open. I think she doesn't know that I know, and I'm almost okay with that from the perspective of not wanting to force them underground more.

But also, early on, when she told me he wasn't anything, I said "oh okay" because I didn't want to display any jealousy or insecurity. This makes the whole vacation thing awkward. I may need to assert more that I do not want to go as just friends next time it comes up, but I cant decide if I want to confront about the OM. I'm not even sure she knows what she is even doing is wrong, but the grass is definitely being watered over there more than my grass. Im temped to tell her that if she "wants to work on us" as she says, that she needs to back it up by ending her inappropriate conduct, but doing so reveals that I know, and I'm sick of talking about the relationship any more than I have to. But, in being cool about it, I'm also leaving myself open to being weak perhaps.

Also this morning she said ILY and gave me a hug when I left. We made eye contact and did the peck while going out the door kiss. It didn't feel like pursuit, but I'm being wary.

Say nothing to her about OM.

Tell her that right now, with the state of the MR, you don't feel like it would be wise to go on vacation. That a lot has happened and is happening and you need time to process through everything. Tell her that if and when things get better in the future, then you can always go on vacation later.

Then stick to it through the begging, pleading, crying, maybe even screaming, and threats. Attraction is about taking back respect. WWs in the midst of an EA that get their husbands to take them on a friend zone vacation do not engender respect. Many LBSs have made the mistake of going on vacation anyway, and coming back to an even more distant WAS. Including a couple here recently. Don't fall into the trap.

DB! GAL! Detach. You are way to focused on her.