Persistent Endurance (Part 3)

[AnotherStander]

Hi AS, I do want to keep the way home paved and smooth. I am confused on how to do that when setting boundaries and enforcing consequences. It did seem mean to box up her clothes and leave them in the garage, but that has been recommended on several occasions previously due to her waywardness. It hurt me to see her cry and be in pain.

Sometimes a little "tough love" is needed, especially when dealing with a WW. The key is you have to be consistent though. Don't box up her stuff and put it in the garage and the next day tell her you love her and wish she would work on the M with you. Do you see what crazy, mixed signals that would send? As Hurt said she KNOWS she only needs to snap her fingers and you'll come running. What you need to strive for is for her not just to think but to know that that is no longer the case. That Curtis is no longer Plan B waiting in the wings.

Should I apologize to her for anything (exposing the A, guilting her over the kids, boxing her stuff)? Should I tell her that the door is open and she is welcome to come back if she ever feels differently, that I won’t bring up those things again, and that I will leave her alone?

As Hurt and others said you don't want to apologize and you don't want to beg and plead. That'll just make you look unsure of yourself and lacking confidence at a time you want to be exuding strength. And your words mean less than nothing to her right now anyway. Show her actions, and show her consistent actions over a long period of time.

[ovrrnbw]

Curtis,

I don't know how much you've read about "going dark". I'd read and learn more about it before doing it because you need to make a plan and stick to it for a while, no flip flopping.

I don't think you can go dark without a parenting plan. I don't think you can go dark with her coming over to see the horse all the time. These kinds of things need to be ironed out. Do it quickly and without emotion, then start taking steps forward with your own life. Your W sees you as weak and now it is time for you to heal, grow, and strengthen - and hopefully you want to do it for yourself and not just for her b/c that attitude will go a long ways for you.

Detachment means what they do doesn't affect you either way. I left the pictures up at my house b/c they didn't bother me usually and I thought maybe they'd bother my W to see them. But it's best to let most things like that become water off the duck's back. Keep posting, keep reading like LH said.

[neffer]

And for you it´s time to stop talking and start moving. Set YOU free.

Keep DB man!

[curtis7]

Thanks for all of the advice and feedback. I’ve spoken with two L’s this week and have a better understanding of my options. My W had requested in an email Saturday night that I gather all of my financials and make a list of our assets and marital items with estimated values so we could decide by the end of the month who keeps what. Of course, she asked to be compensated for anything I keep. So, I’m thinking about how to proceed.

I’ve been reflecting back on the open marriage confrontation Saturday night and considering the timing. I gathered some intel and on Monday of last week WW’s BFF was at her house to console her because WW and OM2 were fighting. Some of the messages from him stated that “I have her under my thumb” and that she is never available because she is at my place so often with the horse and attending to my needs and pleasing me. It seems OM2 is threatened by me or trying to use me against her and convince her to distance further from me.

On Saturday morning, she was having her tires rotated and they told her two needed to be replaced due to low tread depth. She immediately called me, blamed me for not replacing all four tires last time, and asked what she should do because she had never taken care of that before. I told her you can do what you want with the tires, that’s your decision. Then, after the rotation, she brought the kids to my house to give S8 a haircut. Afterwards he wanted to stay with me for a few hours until his baseball game. D4 also wanted to stay, I never asked either of the kids to stay at my place. WW drove off upset and sent a text stating she was upset because her time with the kids was taken away from her. That is when she drafted the email about taking the next steps on financials and dividing property.

The email started as follows:
“This set up we have right now is no longer working for me. Many have told me that and I refused to listen. But after today I realize you think I am or should still depend on you and bend to your will. That is not the case.”

I don’t understand how her calling me about tires on her car and the kids wanting to stay with me made her realize I think she should depend on me and bend to my will. Craziness! I think it had more to do with BFF’s biased shoulder, OM2’s texts, and her blaming me for the problems they are going through. She may be realizing that being married to me, even though separated, is problematic for R’s with any OM as it portrays her as less available.

A little more intel indicated that her and OM2 were fighting over text just prior to my arrival at her place for the open marriage confrontation. Messages from him stated that she manipulates him, that she looks and talks down to him, doesn’t respect him, etc. He stated that her and I are perfect for each other.

So, based on all of this as well as what others have said, I think it was bad timing in setting the boundary. This is also why I’m not necessarily opposed to gathering intel occasionally before making any big moves. It can be very helpful in knowing if the timing is right.

A few final thoughts on WW, she had two hand written notes on her refrigerator. One stated something along the lines of not judging others and no one is better than you. I saw a conversation she had with her sister asking if she had turned into that type of person, because she thinks that is what I would do in the past and if she was mirroring me after 18 years together. Her sister acknowledged that she has seen and heard my W make judgmental comments on others she felt she was better than over the past few years. I know that coming to that realization had a tremendous emotional impact on my W as she always prided herself on treating others equally. The other note on the fridge stated if you want a different result, make different choices. My thought on that is if you want to stop being treated like a piece of meat by pickup artists half your age, then recommit to your MR and family and work on a real loving relationship rather than satisfying your desires for short-term sexual thrills with interlopers.

Enough about her, I’m leaving her alone, kids only, and DBing. Working on projects around the house to get ready for my Bday party in a few weeks.

[neffer]

Hey Curtis, DB is not a manipulative program to get your goals from a cold standpoint. It´s about knowing yourself so as to learn how to love yourself and then love others.

You are now focus on W. Stop that. Free yourself. Love yourself. Make the right changes for yourself. Get into amoafwl. Stop snooping, you know all the info you need. Keeping that road will set mines on any possible road back to MR.

Detach. Be there for the kids. GAL and go dark/dim.

Ease your mind, relax and start DB.

DB is for yourself. Start walking that road. It´s a marathon.

[LH19]

C,

Stop snooping! There are no big moves to make. You are living in separate households and she is getting her ducks in a row to file for divorce. There was no bad timing on your boundary because you didn’t set one. Please read up on boundaries or ask questions here.

If you want to set and stick to a boundary start with enforcing the statement you made regarding don’t call me unless it’s about finances or the kids.

W: blah blah blah tires you did this blah blah blah
C: I’m sorry about your tires but this doesn’t pertain to the kids or finances. Gotta run.

[Ready2Change]

My W had requested in an email Saturday night that I gather all of my financials and make a list of our assets and marital items with estimated values so we could decide by the end of the month who keeps what.

Get your list together, BUT DO NOT SHARE IT WITH HER!!


Flip this around. You do not have to send this message either. It is your thought process:

H:"W, I have no intention on drawing up such a list. You draw up the list. I will review. If I believe it is fair, I will agree. If it is not fair, I will give give you my changes."

Let her "Split the cookie" you pick the half you want to eat.

The first one in negotiation to "Name the price" loses. Let her name the price.

[AnotherStander]

My W had requested in an email Saturday night that I gather all of my financials and make a list of our assets and marital items with estimated values so we could decide by the end of the month who keeps what. Of course, she asked to be compensated for anything I keep. So, I’m thinking about how to proceed.

R2C beat me to it but yes, make her do all the work. Does she really think she's in a position to make demands of you to escalate the D? No, that is her problem. I would not say one more word to her about it. If she demands again to know when you will send the list, simply tell her "D is not what I want, if you prefer to pursue it I will not stand in your way. But I will not be doing your work for you on this."

I’ve been reflecting back on the open marriage confrontation Saturday night and considering the timing. I gathered some intel and on Monday of last week WW’s BFF was at her house to console her because WW and OM2 were fighting. Some of the messages from him stated that “I have her under my thumb” and that she is never available because she is at my place so often with the horse and attending to my needs and pleasing me. It seems OM2 is threatened by me or trying to use me against her and convince her to distance further from me.

It sounds like you are snooping. There's nothing to be gained, you already know she's having an A, that's all you need to know. Don't get caught up in the details and drama, that doesn't matter. You are married to a woman who is living elsewhere and engaging in an A. Anything else is just background noise, right?

On Saturday morning, she was having her tires rotated and they told her two needed to be replaced due to low tread depth. She immediately called me, blamed me for not replacing all four tires last time, and asked what she should do because she had never taken care of that before. I told her you can do what you want with the tires, that’s your decision.

Good. Time for her to put her big girl panties on.

Afterwards he wanted to stay with me for a few hours until his baseball game. D4 also wanted to stay, I never asked either of the kids to stay at my place. WW drove off upset and sent a text stating she was upset because her time with the kids was taken away from her.

Again this is the WAS mindset. EVERYTHING is your fault. All things great and small. That's why you have to give her time and space. Leave her alone. Listen and validate, but don't get drawn into fights or discussions. "I understand why that would make you upset, perhaps next time they ask to stay you can tell them it's your turn to have them and they need to go with you."

“This set up we have right now is no longer working for me. Many have told me that and I refused to listen. But after today I realize you think I am or should still depend on you and bend to your will. That is not the case.”

OK so at times like this where it is 100% blaming and Husband-trashing, don't validate. She's being a bratty wayward and you should reply with either NOTHING or "W, you are disrespecting me and I will not tolerate it, please do not contact me unless it's something specific about the kids. I will not reply to disrespectful texts in the future." Then if at ANY time she sends you something like that again, follow through on your boundary and don't reply.

A little more intel indicated that her and OM2 were fighting over text just prior to my arrival at her place for the open marriage confrontation. Messages from him stated that she manipulates him, that she looks and talks down to him, doesn’t respect him, etc. He stated that her and I are perfect for each other.

Who gives a crap. Her interactions with OM are her problem. Quit snooping.

This is also why I’m not necessarily opposed to gathering intel occasionally before making any big moves. It can be very helpful in knowing if the timing is right.

I disagree. Boundaries are about protecting YOU. You set boundaries when YOU need them. Quit snooping.

[Hallzy9]

Hey Curtis,
Finally finished catching up on your sitch,
I have to say you WW seems highly unstable. She must really be suffering right now. That is no excuse for her behavior. You seem to really care about her which must mean that she was an amazing person before she became WW. You seem to be a really great guy who has so much love for his family but the disrespect from her is insane. You deserve to be treated so much better.

I think if I were in your situation I would really try to detach fully from her. Drop the rope. Absolutely no conversation apart from child information. She seems so out of bounds with her actions, you must be an incredible patient man to be putting up with this. I wish the best for you man.

[curtis7]

I don't think you can go dark without a parenting plan. I don't think you can go dark with her coming over to see the horse all the time. These kinds of things need to be ironed out.

Detachment means what they do doesn't affect you either way. I left the pictures up at my house b/c they didn't bother me usually and I thought maybe they'd bother my W to see them. But it's best to let most things like that become water off the duck's back. Keep posting, keep reading like LH said.

Hi O, parenting plan is worked out. We rotate 2,3,2 each week. This is going okay, but the house feels like an empty shell when the kids aren’t home. My S8 has actually stated several times that he doesn’t like going to her place and just wishes he could stay at home. I tell him I’m sorry about all of this, that it wasn’t caused by him or his sister, and hope that it’s only temporary before our family can get back together.

Regarding the horse situation, my neighbor had a friend that was in need of a place to keep her horse and we had an empty stall on our property. So, I decided to bring on a boarder at the beginning of May. I did clear it with my W because her horse is next to this one. She was ok with it initially, then very skeptical the next day thinking of ulterior motives of our neighbor, then ok with it again when I explained the arrangement and after she met the boarder. The basics are that I feed the boarder’s horse in the morning, then W feeds and cleans the stall when she comes over to take care of her horse every night. This setup is working for now, my W comes over and does her thing in the barn and sometimes rides her horse. The kids come in the house to play while my W will generally not step foot inside.

This past Friday, she did come in when I was out with the kids for the night to pack up more of her stuff. She took several storage containers of Xmas and other holiday decorations, several other decorative items around the house, and a few paintings off the walls. None of this really bothered me as it’s just stuff, although the hooks on the walls where some of the paintings and artwork used to reside looks a bit odd.

Our interaction is mostly limited to the kids and horses. She did text me on Friday asking if she should purchase the road hazard protection for her new tires. I gave my general opinion on those types of warranties with the caveat that it’s her decision and she should do what she thinks is best. She decided against it which I agreed with. On Saturday morning, I sent her a text offering to drop the kids at her place that night (they were scheduled to stay with me) so they could be there when she wakes up on Mother’s Day. She happily agreed. I took the kids to the store and allowed each of them to pick out a Mother’s Day gift for her. I also wrote her a note that I hope she has a good day and that the kids are lucky to have her as a mother. My S8 had a baseball game Saturday morning and my W took D4 to a birthday party. Afterwards, W brought D4 over for the rest of the day and she was wearing a white with black pinstripe dress, looking very good by the way. Same one she was wearing when she met up with OM for a hookup back in January. I suspect she was headed out to see one of her OM or on a date with someone new. I didn’t say anything, had a slight smile on my face, and let her go. No words or actions indicate she’s moving back towards me at all. I can’t worry about that, I need to keep moving forward for myself.

I’ve been busy working on a project at the house to prepare for my bday party in 2 weeks. I finally finished pressure washing, re-sanding, and sealing the pool deck. It’s a wet look sealer and really brought back the color of the paver blocks. It felt good to accomplish that project, time to select the next one to keep busy.