Persistent Endurance (Part 3)

[curtis7]

Birthday came and went. I received a lot of attention and caring at work and from friends and family, which was appreciated. W finally sent a Happy Birthday text in the late afternoon. Also enjoyed a nice dinner with the kids and my parents. Even though S8 asked W to join us the night before, she was a no show.

I must admit, my birthday yesterday and W’s disregard for the occasion was hard on me. I felt very sad that she did next to nothing to recognize the day and I nearly broke down in front of the kids before bedtime. W was always there for me on my birthdays and had a way of making them feel very special.

This tells me that I’m not fully detached and am still allowing interaction, or in this case, lack of interaction with my W to affect me emotionally. Detachment is not easy, when you think you’re doing well and living your life fine without WAS, certain triggers occur that cause those emotions to rush back into your mind. W is seemingly much better at detachment in this respect. Perhaps that’s the difference when you truly care about a person versus when you attribute all of your unhappiness to a person.

Who knows, maybe she does care, but has a funny way of showing it. Staying away could be how she is able to keep herself from being pulled back into a R that she feels she doesn’t want right now. Emotions trump logic with a WW.

My birthday was a good reminder on the importance of detachment and not letting W’s choices affect me. I need to pick myself up, keep moving forward, and accept this will be the norm from now on. Major life events and family activities will no longer be jointly shared, that is the choice she has made for now.

[neffer]

Happy birthday Curtis. Just for you to know, your next birthday will be a better one, for sure. Keep DB.

Time to take YOUR choices into account.

Keep moving forward man.

Happy birthday!

(((((C7)))))

[curtis7]

I need to strap on a helmet and some body armor to prepare for the 2x4’s (hopefully not a sledge hammer) coming my way.

I’ve had the kids with me since Monday and W hadn’t seen them at all as I had activities with them everyday after school. I think 3 days is the longest she has ever gone without seeing them. Yesterday afternoon she texted that she was riding her horse tonight and hoped to see the kids after they get home from baseball practice.

We arrived home and the kids spent a little time with her in the barn. She later came into the laundry room to say goodbye to them. She told the kids she stunk from riding the horse. D4 asked why don’t you take a shower here? W replied, I don’t have any clothes here anymore (I guess I gave her an easy excuse by packing up all of her stuff several weeks ago). W then asked if she could buy a bottle of wine from me. She said she was too dirty to go into a store. I picked one out and gave it to her and said you don’t need to pay me. She also mentioned talking to one of our neighbors while on her horse ride. The neighbor let her know about the birthday party I’m having at my place on Saturday. I think this made her curious (GAL works). She then talked for several minutes about how busy she was at work in her new managerial role. I empathized with her as I experienced similar issues in the past when first managing people. I was engaging, made eye contact, mirrored her body expressions and really listened to her.

We went into the garage and she asked if I had any extra electrical wire because she wanted to run a new outlet to an over the range microwave in her separation house. I found a bundle of wire in a storage cabinet that might work for her. We then talked in the garage about our neighbor wanting to bring his son’s horse to our property for the summer while he is overseas. W and I discussed building more fencing off the third stall in our barn that has only been used for storage up until now. She talked about her long term plans for the barn fencing, then said it was my decision. I said it’s not entirely my decision. We went out to the driveway under the moonlight and I handed the electrical wire to her and then I placed my arms around her for a hug, she didn’t wrap her arms around me and looked somewhat uneasy and uncomfortable.

Here was the exchange:
W: What are you doing?
H: Can I have a hug?
W: Sure...did you have a good birthday?
H: It was different and it was hard...but I enjoyed the time with the kids (I placed my hand in her hair behind her head and gently pulled her towards me)
H: What are you thinking? (after a few seconds and moving apart slightly with my arms still wrapped around her lower back)
W: We’re not there yet.
H: I understand, we miss you (while looking her in the eyes).
W: Who’s we?
H: Me and the kids.
W: They get to see me.
H: You’re right they do. It’s late, you better go (still holding her in my arms and pulling her into me, she was not falling into me, I could tell it was not the time to press further, so I let her go)
W: Ok, good night
H: Bye (I turned and walked back into the house)

As I initially held her, thoughts of the vets on the board and their reactions to this decision instantly consumed me. Then I thought to myself, oh shucks, well it’s too late now. I need to go with it and try not to say anything that makes matters much worse. Thoughts of how to exit the situation with dignity rapidly ran through my head. I must say it was uncomfortable for me as well since I have had so little physical contact with her for so many months. The thought of moving in to kiss her crossed my mind a couple times; however, looking into her eyes and knowing her facial expressions, I could tell that would not be well received, at least I resisted that temptation.

Huge forehead slap on my part, I don’t know why I couldn’t fight the urge to touch her and try to get some affection. I just feeling confident, compelled, and an incessant urge to find out if she had any warmth towards me. I think I was motivated by reading P_Jam’s sitch and that he recently had sex with his WW. I felt my sitch had some parallels to his and wanted to find out if I could have similar success. Also, I didn’t get what I wanted from her for my birthday, so I decided what the heck, I’m just going to go get what I want no matter the outcome.

I don’t know if it helped or hurt my sitch or set me back, but last night I didn’t really care because I enjoyed it. My MR may already be over, but that doesn’t mean I still can’t get some personal satisfaction when the opportunity presents. I missed what it felt like to hold her in my arms for the past 6 months. No matter how cruel her words and actions have been, the fact remains that I love this woman and she’s still the only companion I want to be with. DBing is about continuing to do what works and stop doing what doesn’t work. I wanted to find out if this action worked. The immediate reaction is no, so I’ll back off again and we’ll see how things progress from here.

Positives:
- I got to hold her in my arms which felt great
- She didn’t push me away or scream “don’t you dare touch me”
- She said “We’re not there yet”, keying on the yet as if someday we could be there
- I think it helped letting her know the path home is paved and smooth

Negatives:
- She didn’t reciprocate the hug or seem to appreciate it
- Again firmly established myself as plan B, C, or D
- She said “We’re not there yet”, contrarian POV is that she just said that to not escalate the tension in the moment and wanted it to ended quickly and gracefully

I did call her shortly after she left because S8 had a nasty heat rash. She told me how to treat it. Later on we also exchanged some pleasant and joking texts about the kids.

I woke up this morning feeling good with a ton of motivation and energy. I dropped off the kids for their last day of school. Going to be really busy the next couple days getting everything ready and hosting my birthday party.

Let the 2x4’s commence.

[LH19]

Oh man just when I thought it was going to be a slow day.

H: It was different and it was hard...but I enjoyed the time with the kids (I placed my hand in her hair behind her head and gently pulled her towards me)

You pulled her towards you by the hair?

As I initially held her, thoughts of the vets on the board and their reactions to this decision instantly consumed me.

LOL. I bet.

I think I was motivated by reading P_Jam’s sitch and that he recently had sex with his WW. I felt my sitch had some parallels to his and wanted to find out if I could have similar success.

Curtis your situation is nothing like PJs except your Ws have had multiple affairs. What makes you think they are the same?

I don’t know if it helped or hurt my sitch or set me back, but last night I didn’t really care because I enjoyed it.

Enjoying holding a woman against her will is a little scary Curtis. You have to learn to control your emotions.

No matter how cruel her words and actions have been, the fact remains that I love this woman and she’s still the only companion I want to be with.

Why? Give me three reasons and don't use she is the mother of my children.

Look I don't think you helped or hurt your chances. Nothing changes. She is still free to date, come by and see her horse and the kids when she wants and has a free pass to come home if she hits rock bottom. Sounds like a pretty good deal for her right?

"I am not there yet" is a WW breadcrumb that she hopes will keep you fat and happy for awhile.

Are you in IC?

[AnotherStander]

Curtis, I agree with LH, I got a creepy vibe reading your post. I get that you are starving for some touch and affection but trying to get it from her is not much different than trying to grope a neighbor. That's kind of where she's at right now mentally, she doesn't see you as her H. More like a neighbor or relative (like an uncle). So just try to back off of that. You're right about the GAL working and her getting curious about you, that is good. You just have to be careful not to jump the gun and try to reel her in every time you get a positive sign or it sets you back to the beginning. Go back to your GAL and giving her time and space. If you need physical touch then maybe go out dancing or something!

[Ready2Change]

She looked somewhat uneasy and uncomfortable. ....I didn’t really care because I enjoyed it.

We all have 4 fingers pointing back at us when we are judging the spouses that walked away from us.


How selfish. Put yourself in her shoes.

[IHCLACS]

She looked somewhat uneasy and uncomfortable. ....I didn’t really care because I enjoyed it.

We all have 4 fingers pointing back at us when we are judging the spouses that walked away from us.


How selfish. Put yourself in her shoes.

R2C A couple of weeks ago I was going over my sich with a co-worker and he said exactly the same thing to me. It really made me think so much introspectively that I started writing down all the things that I was feeling, and an accomplished exactly that. It made me realize the areas of my life that I was unaware of and was selfish in including many other things and dynamics. That is great advice.

[curtis7]

You pulled her towards you by the hair?

LOL. No, I didn’t pull her by the hair. Ok, I didn’t do a good job describing the embrace. I ran my hand through her hair and caressed the back of her head. My other hand was around her back as we hugged with her head over my shoulder.

Curtis your situation is nothing like PJs except your Ws have had multiple affairs. What makes you think they are the same?

Not the same, but similarities as in many sitches. Multiple affairs, BD’d and physically separated for about the same amount of time, both shuffling kids and co-parenting, neither of us willing to be martyrs indefinitely, both made many mistakes in applying DB principles, etc.

Enjoying holding a woman against her will is a little scary Curtis. You have to learn to control your emotions.

She wasn’t fighting or being held while trying to escape. She responded more like a neighbor or friendly acquaintance that doesn’t throw themself into your arms. I didn’t know how she would react. You may have a good idea based on the history of WWs, but I wanted to find out where she was at in that moment. I don’t regret it as it was a strong and confident action. It expressed that there is a paved and smooth path home for her. She may have previously viewed that path full of potholes and roadblocks based on my confrontation with her at the beginning of the month regarding living in an open marriage.

No matter how cruel her words and actions have been, the fact remains that I love this woman and she’s still the only companion I want to be with.

Why? Give me three reasons and don't use she is the mother of my children.

Reasons don’t capture the essence of why I love her. I love her because I love her. I never decided to be be with her, rather I chose to be with her. Therefore, I choose to love her, not based on reasons that are easily expressed. Nevertheless, I’ll take a stab at a few reasons. The kids are a major factor, but I’ll exclude them for the time being.
1) I am completely fulfilled mentally, emotionally, and physically with her.
2) I value my marriage vows and the promise I made to her.
3) I am in love with my best friend, she knew the darkest parts of me and loved me anyways.
4) I grew into an adult with her.
5) I am a better person because of her, she teaches me humility and how to love others.
6) I experienced passionate which later transformed into compassionate love with her.
7) I have an intimate bond with her and she will always be the most important woman in my life and I will always be the most important man in her life (ok, this one is mostly because of the kids)
Oh, was I supposed to stop at 3?

Don’t get me wrong, I live a great, low stress life. It truly has been amazing and I have been tremendously blessed. I have learned throughout this process that I don’t need her, but rather I want to be with her. She enhances my life in so many aspects. In my recent revelations and self-discovery, I’ve learned that I now crave a deeper connection with her. Something more substantive and meaningful. Intimacy rather than surface level attraction, closer to unconditional love.

I read a story about a woman on the radio that had been married for over 50 years. She said, “It's normal for a spouse to fall in and out of love throughout the many years of a marriage. The key is not having both people fall out of love at the same time." My W may have fallen out of love right now, but I have not. This is what gives us and our family a chance at surviving this crisis.

I also try to appreciate that my W is in a fog and she may eventually realize that the grass is not always greener. I want to be the lighthouse that represents a stable home environment and AMOAFWL. She may realize that she has a wonderful H that loves her and is a great father to our children. If she doesn’t, she stands to lose everything that is so dear to her. Her MR and family.

I try to remember that life is long. In the heat of the moment, what feels super important will likely fade in importance as time goes by. Before reacting by yelling, tossing insults, or unkind words, I remember that “This, too, shall pass”. So, I get strength from not letting one unfortunate incident, difficult argument, or challenging moment destroy my lifetime of happiness.

Look I don't think you helped or hurt your chances. Nothing changes. She is still free to date, come by and see her horse and the kids when she wants and has a free pass to come home if she hits rock bottom. Sounds like a pretty good deal for her right?

Yes, it does sound good for her. Although, I’m not going to wait around forever. Also, I can’t ignore how unhappy she must have been to walk away from everything that we have built and experienced together. While cheating is NEVER justified, I am sympathetic that these are her feelings and that she feels she can’t be with me right now.

"I am not there yet" is a WW breadcrumb that she hopes will keep you fat and happy for awhile.

We’ll see, and that might have been what I needed to continue DBing. Breadcrumbs give the LBS hope. Sometimes that helps to remind us that it is worth it to stay the course and continue to monitor for small improvements. I can ride this small nugget through vacation with kids until the end of June. Then, I plan to re-evaluate my sitch based on where the two of us are at.

Are you in IC?

I am not. W was last year which helped lead up to BD. I choose to better myself through self-help/improvement books, podcasts, confiding in a couple close positive minded friends, and obviously support from this community.

You just have to be careful not to jump the gun and try to reel her in every time you get a positive sign or it sets you back to the beginning. Go back to your GAL and giving her time and space. If you need physical touch then maybe go out dancing or something!

AS, you’re right. It had been so long since I had a positive vibe from her and rather than remaining patient and continuing to build on that over time, I tried to rush the process. I realized that as soon as I moved in to hug her. Lesson learned.

We all have 4 fingers pointing back at us when we are judging the spouses that walked away from us.
How selfish. Put yourself in her shoes.

R2C, I couldn’t predict her reaction with absolute certainty. She felt that I neglected her needs for a long time which contributed to the S. I thought it was important to show some vulnerability, that I’ve accepted where we’re at, and that I am a safe place if she chooses to return.

[neffer]

Oh man, the last sentence of your post above is really hard to read. It kills the counterintuitive environment that you need to develop. Trust the process. And concerning W stick to believe nothing of what she says, as usual.

Anyway, the cycle up will come faster and with more energy each time.

So reset counter and aim for your goal again. Getting into amoafwl.

Go man, you have the strength. Keep DB

[LH19]

Curtis I wrote out a long post I deleted because it was too harsh and I'm probably the harshest poster here. You got to get stronger or this is going to end very badly for you. You have two boys who you have to teach not to be pushed around. Get into IC. Books and podcasts are not enough. You're very confused on what to do and you're not heeding the advice of the board and you need some guidance.

I have read number 5 on your list like ten times and every time I say WTF?

I'm at a loss.

Good luck my friend!