Well if you want someone local to talk to we'll figure out a spot to meet for lunch. Maybe On The Border on Knox, that's kind of midway. Totally up to you of course. I just remember how hard it was finding local people that could identify with what I was going through.
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
I'm really looking forward to it. Having a rough week. Really needed some good news.
H46 W38 M12 T15 D8,S7,S5
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
This post became so wordy, I decided to send it in two parts.
Quote
This is shifting gears a bit but wondered what your take was if I discover there is another A. I know it doesn't change anything (although it kills my desire to pursue her anymore).
How do I communicate that I know?
Before you communicate that you know, there are key things you need to think through. First of all, would any type of affair be a deal breaker? Some men push aside the seriousness of an emotional affair, just as long as the AP's didn't have sex. Emotional affairs go beyond the schoolgirl crush type of thing. It can encapture a WW to the point of forsaking everything to be with OM. It's all about feelings for the WW.
Most WW's will not admit to the truth presented or questioned by her H. At best she will give him a trickled down version. She is wayward, so don't expect her to truthfully answer any of your questions. Don't approach her and ask, "Are you having an A?" You need to know from some other source. And whatever source of your intell, you never ever reveal that source to her.
Trickle down versions of the truth is her avoiding to own the full level of their involvement. She will give you at least one level lower than what actually happened. Like, she may start by saying they were just friends, someone she could talk to. If the H pressures by providing nude pictures or sex texting.... she'll they were just having fun and it wasn't serious. Some WW's will cop to having only shared a kiss, when in reality they are having sex. I've even read about H's having proof of the AP's spending the night together in a hotel room.......and the WW will claim they didn't have sex! One WW claimed she stopped in mid intercourse b/c she suddenly realized how much she loved her H. So, don't expect your W to be completely honest in revealing details.
LBH's ask why the WW lies about her affair, if she's already told her H she wants out of the M. It's part of the craziness of her mindset. That's not a sufficient answer, but you have to remember she is a cheater. Once she stepped over the line to betray her H, the other forms of deceit just becomes part of her need to cover up. She's not quite ready to release her Plan B (BH) until she has completely secured Plan A (OM), so that means she has to keep him from knowing the truth. She may not be ready for her parents or old friends to know she's cheating, so she has to devise some plan as to how she'll demonize her H to them, so to justify why she had to ask for a D. Then she will eventually introduce her new man and her parents and friends will accept him (she hopes). Listen, I was wayward and had an EA. We never met face to face IRL. With today's apps, it offers ways to conduct inappropriate activities, and then erase the evidence. Technically, I suppose it would not classify as a PA, but things sure were physical as per technology. It really embarrasses me to give details. The point I want you to grab here is that I had the whole plan mapped out. I planned to tell my kids how bad the M was, leave my H and go live with the OM. After a little time, I would bring OM back to my hometown to meet my children and parent. Unbelievable!!
Your WW may be between affairs, or she may have carried her A underground so it is won't appear quite so obvious. I think there are some common overt behaviors seen in WW's and MLCW's. A lot of H's classify their WW as having a MLC. But anyway.......I said that to say this. It is rare to see a wayward and/or one in MLC who does not have an affair. So, if your W is not hiding some inappropriate contact, or more than inappropriate, then I think it will be a matter of time. You see, they reach this level of full out rebellion. In the past, she may have expressed some lower level of rebellion, but while her resentment, disrespect, selfishness, etc. is rising.......so is her rebellion.
I'm always telling H's they can't be soft on a wayward W. The WW is a different breed, and H's who illustrate a certain tenderness toward his WW, is likely to find himself divorced. It's sad to say, but I'm being brutally honest about what I'm witnessed on the board and IRL. Men who have NGS must feel as if they've traded their old self and put on a new man in order to successfully deal with his wayward W.
Okay, so I haven't actually answered your question, have I? Maybe part 2 will come closer.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Some people get the idea I am not in favor of confronting the WW about her affair. That's not true. I'm not in favor of confronting her when the H doesn't have a plan of action, with swift and harsh consequences if necessary. He has to be ready to physically separate, b/c telling her how much he wants to work on the M, etc., is the weak. She needs to see him standing up to her and being disgusted by her actions. She needs to wonder what he is going to do next. The last thing he should do is plead for the MR, and ask her to work on the relationship, yada, yada, yada. She'll see this type of reaction as sniveling, disgusting, and pathetic. She may not show those feelings on the surface, but it's b/c she is playing him for more time.
He should not "ask" her what she wants. He should not "ask" her what she plans to do. That gives her a sense of power over him. He cannot show emotion. He must stand straight & tall, and speak with a voice of confidence. Don't yell, lose control, cry, beg, start naming all your faults (she sees it as justification for her actions). Don't start apologizing for your part in the breakdown of the relationship, and don't take this time to start trying to validate her. Don't tell her you've already forgiven her!! In other words, this is strictly about you informing her that you know she has been concealing an affair.......and that you won't remain in an open marriage. (If you aren't ready to enforce that boundary, then don't say it.) As the man, and faithful spouse, you are the one who call the shots at this point. She may say she wants a divorce. Okay, don't argue and say that's not what you. B/c she has to see you being "done" at this point. I know it is scary, but her wayward mind will be doing cartwheels. Don't waver if she says ANYTHING other than she was wrong and wants to make things right and save the M. This scenario doesn't happen often, but it happens sometimes when the timing and approach is right.
One of the biggest mistakes I see H's make in the confrontation is them letting it spin into a long discussion about their relationship. This is not the time to engage in a relationship discussion. You don't sit down and start discussing everything wrong in the MR. Understand? This is not the time for all that talk. If you give her a crack, she'll use it to slither away from the purpose of this confrontation, and she'll twist things around until you won't know which end is up. This is the time she needs to know she has been caught. You have her number, and you don't intend to play along any further. You keep it short, on point, and then you leave the house without telling her where you are going or when you'll be back. You ignore her texts (b/c she will text you the minute you leave), and in fact, turn off you phone. You want nothing to do with her. She needs to panic!! She won't panic if you are assuring her that you want to save the M.
Confrontation merely let's her know that you know enough......and she'll either go further underground, or play games. Most WW's want to know exactly how much the H knows and how he found out. Don't tell her everything you know or how you found out. This is very important. Don't get into guessing games with her. You are the one in charge here.
Where I disagree with some H's and how they confronted the WW, is that the majority of H's seem to think this confrontation is going to shock the WW and she'll immediately show remorse for the affair. Some H's want to use the confrontation to find out more about the affair. And, a lot of H's seem to think the WW will end the affair after she's confronted. I have to say this rarely happens, but it's possible. I mean, even if the WW shows certain responses the H is hoping to see.........it is seldom genuine. Actually, the confrontation puts the W on notice. She usually temp checks him, secures her Plan B, takes her affair deeper undercover, and continues the game playing. IMHO, the H should be so convincing in his approach that it sends her into panic mode to realize she has been discovered and now she could lose her family.....for real.
It's difficult to give a mock confrontation with what to say, etc. Let me share some of my opinions, and some that I found in an article.
Before confrontation:
Have plenty of proof she is cheating. Don't go in accusing, if you don't have the proof. You don't have to have this confrontation right away. Take plenty of time to observe her stories or accounts about her activity.....so, if she tries to lie her way out.....you recognize it and remember what you observed. Based on your evidence, think ahead of what she might say to convince you it's not what you think and she's not really cheating. You have to be prepared by thinking how you will respond to her denials. Don't argue with her, just remain calm and in control. You know what the intell shows.
If you have one very trustful friend (not any mutual friends), you can show the evidence that friend to get an unbiased viewpoint. I don't advise asking relatives, or putting it out on social media, but that's MHO. Having a solid longstanding friend can give you moral support, but be careful. Have a sense of your game plan before you approach her. Know what you will say/do should she confess, and should she continue to lie & deny.
Don't confront if either of you have been drinking. Don't have the confrontation late at night. Don't confront in the presence of children, or where you'll likely be interrupted. Choose a quiet atmosphere, with only the two of you. Don't confront if either of you are already having a high stress day, showing anxiety, impatience, anger, etc. Make sure there is plenty of time for this confrontation. Don't do it right before some appointment, going to work/school, etc.
The confrontation:
You may say you need to discuss something serious with her. Once you have her attention, you can something like, "I have reasons that suggest you might be having an affair".
She may immediately want to know how much you know....and especially, how you found out. Say that her behavior led you to become concerned and that you felt it was warranted to a find out what was going on....... given how serious cheating is.
She'll probably get upset about you invading her privacy, or try to turn the conversation around to focus on your faults, even blame you for her affair. She may tell you that you're crazy and/or imagining things. Calmly bring the focus back by re-affirming it was her behavior that has given you serious concerns.... and that this conversation is about whether or not she is cheating on you.
"I knew there were problems in our MR, and I had hoped we could work through it. However, I feel you've completely disrespected me with this affair".
"We can choose to get help in healing our MR, or we can end it". "I won't stay in an M while my W has an affair". So, we both have a serious decision to make".
Understand there is no way to completely predict what your W will do. She may shock me and burst into tears begging for forgiveness. But, I don't think she will. Her heart is hard & cold.
If she should show remorse and says she wants to save the M, then be prepared to tell her you need a few days to consider what it would take for you to remain in the M. IMHO, you need to tell her this b/c you don't want her thinking you are jumping at the chance to be with a cheater. So many H's are too eager and accept the WW back too easily. She has to really work hard to get out of that wayward frame of mind.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Some people get the idea I am not in favor of confronting the WW about her affair. That's not true. I'm not in favor of confronting her when the H doesn't have a plan of action, with swift and harsh consequences if necessary. He has to be ready to physically separate, b/c telling her how much he wants to work on the M, etc., is the weak. She needs to see him standing up to her and being disgusted by her actions. She needs to wonder what he is going to do next. The last thing he should do is plead for the MR, and ask her to work on the relationship, yada, yada, yada. She'll see this type of reaction as sniveling, disgusting, and pathetic. She may not show those feelings on the surface, but it's b/c she is playing him for more time.
He should not "ask" her what she wants. He should not "ask" her what she plans to do. That gives her a sense of power over him. He cannot show emotion. He must stand straight & tall, and speak with a voice of confidence. Don't yell, lose control, cry, beg, start naming all your faults (she sees it as justification for her actions). Don't start apologizing for your part in the breakdown of the relationship, and don't take this time to start trying to validate her. Don't tell her you've already forgiven her!! In other words, this is strictly about you informing her that you know she has been concealing an affair.......and that you won't remain in an open marriage. (If you aren't ready to enforce that boundary, then don't say it.) As the man, and faithful spouse, you are the one who call the shots at this point. She may say she wants a divorce. Okay, don't argue and say that's not what you. B/c she has to see you being "done" at this point. I know it is scary, but her wayward mind will be doing cartwheels. Don't waver if she says ANYTHING other than she was wrong and wants to make things right and save the M. This scenario doesn't happen often, but it happens sometimes when the timing and approach is right.
One of the biggest mistakes I see H's make in the confrontation is them letting it spin into a long discussion about their relationship. This is not the time to engage in a relationship discussion. You don't sit down and start discussing everything wrong in the MR. Understand? This is not the time for all that talk. If you give her a crack, she'll use it to slither away from the purpose of this confrontation, and she'll twist things around until you won't know which end is up. This is the time she needs to know she has been caught. You have her number, and you don't intend to play along any further. You keep it short, on point, and then you leave the house without telling her where you are going or when you'll be back. You ignore her texts (b/c she will text you the minute you leave), and in fact, turn off you phone. You want nothing to do with her. She needs to panic!! She won't panic if you are assuring her that you want to save the M.
Confrontation merely let's her know that you know enough......and she'll either go further underground, or play games. Most WW's want to know exactly how much the H knows and how he found out. Don't tell her everything you know or how you found out. This is very important. Don't get into guessing games with her. You are the one in charge here.
Where I disagree with some H's and how they confronted the WW, is that the majority of H's seem to think this confrontation is going to shock the WW and she'll immediately show remorse for the affair. Some H's want to use the confrontation to find out more about the affair. And, a lot of H's seem to think the WW will end the affair after she's confronted. I have to say this rarely happens, but it's possible. I mean, even if the WW shows certain responses the H is hoping to see.........it is seldom genuine. Actually, the confrontation puts the W on notice. She usually temp checks him, secures her Plan B, takes her affair deeper undercover, and continues the game playing. IMHO, the H should be so convincing in his approach that it sends her into panic mode to realize she has been discovered and now she could lose her family.....for real.
It's difficult to give a mock confrontation with what to say, etc. Let me share some of my opinions, and some that I found in an article.
Before confrontation:
Have plenty of proof she is cheating. Don't go in accusing, if you don't have the proof. You don't have to have this confrontation right away. Take plenty of time to observe her stories or accounts about her activity.....so, if she tries to lie her way out.....you recognize it and remember what you observed. Based on your evidence, think ahead of what she might say to convince you it's not what you think and she's not really cheating. You have to be prepared by thinking how you will respond to her denials. Don't argue with her, just remain calm and in control. You know what the intell shows.
If you have one very trustful friend (not any mutual friends), you can show the evidence that friend to get an unbiased viewpoint. I don't advise asking relatives, or putting it out on social media, but that's MHO. Having a solid longstanding friend can give you moral support, but be careful. Have a sense of your game plan before you approach her. Know what you will say/do should she confess, and should she continue to lie & deny.
Don't confront if either of you have been drinking. Don't have the confrontation late at night. Don't confront in the presence of children, or where you'll likely be interrupted. Choose a quiet atmosphere, with only the two of you. Don't confront if either of you are already having a high stress day, showing anxiety, impatience, anger, etc. Make sure there is plenty of time for this confrontation. Don't do it right before some appointment, going to work/school, etc.
The confrontation:
You may say you need to discuss something serious with her. Once you have her attention, you can something like, "I have reasons that suggest you might be having an affair".
She may immediately want to know how much you know....and especially, how you found out. Say that her behavior led you to become concerned and that you felt it was warranted to a find out what was going on....... given how serious cheating is.
She'll probably get upset about you invading her privacy, or try to turn the conversation around to focus on your faults, even blame you for her affair. She may tell you that you're crazy and/or imagining things. Calmly bring the focus back by re-affirming it was her behavior that has given you serious concerns.... and that this conversation is about whether or not she is cheating on you.
"I knew there were problems in our MR, and I had hoped we could work through it. However, I feel you've completely disrespected me with this affair".
"We can choose to get help in healing our MR, or we can end it". "I won't stay in an M while my W has an affair". So, we both have a serious decision to make".
Understand there is no way to completely predict what your W will do. She may shock me and burst into tears begging for forgiveness. But, I don't think she will. Her heart is hard & cold.
If she should show remorse and says she wants to save the M, then be prepared to tell her you need a few days to consider what it would take for you to remain in the M. IMHO, you need to tell her this b/c you don't want her thinking you are jumping at the chance to be with a cheater. So many H's are too eager and accept the WW back too easily. She has to really work hard to get out of that wayward frame of mind.
All I have right now is some erased call logs recently AND a number that is in an area where the old AP was living.
It's not enough, it's just that she's has 3 As - 2PAs and 1 EA.
H46 W38 M12 T15 D8,S7,S5
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
It really embarrasses me to give details. The point I want you to grab here is that I had the whole plan mapped out. I planned to tell my kids how bad the M was, leave my H and go live with the OM. After a little time, I would bring OM back to my hometown to meet my children and parent. Unbelievable!! 