A Real Mess Pt.2

[IHCLACS]

Here is a way of looking at it. By her having two Affairs while finding herself that could be considered emotional abuse to you? Yes? If it's continually all about them leave them to their own devices. Believe me I get it the double standards and hypocrisy, the complete and total lack of accountability and selfishness. It's good that she's finally starting to come to her senses and slowly doing the work on herself. But I would smash the eject button anyway, just for fun, just to see where it takes me, just for the ride into the unknown. Lonely or not. Even if there wasn't an affair. Your life has the potential to be so much better without all the drama and bull$hit in it. Your life and your time is important to you. Much more important then of somebody who doesn't want to be with you

[AnotherStander]

I spent the day at a Men's Retreat at our local church. I'm kind of confused about how to bibically love my wife and the concept of DBing and how they combine.

If you have a comment that is critical of faith OR religion OR biblical worldview please save it for another forum. But if you have faith, believe what is said about loving your wife, laying your life down for her, then please I am open to your thoughts.

I think the "Fireproof" concept of breaking into full-on pursuit if your M is in trouble is possibly a valid one if things are rocky but you haven't been BD'd yet. IE, your W is not two feet out the door. But once you get BD'd and she's gone full blown WAS, pursuit simply does not work. I would venture to say that every single person on these forums tried it. We all do it before we find DB'ing. And it didn't work for anyone. I don't know a single example of it working. But I know many examples of DB'ing working to EVENTUALLY restore an M. It doesn't work fast, there are no magic tricks or miracles.

I think what those of faith have to embrace is the concept that maybe God is trying to teach us patience, and teach us to let go of what we want as a show of love to our spouse. If she doesn't want to be married to you then what is the ultimate expression of love? Is it constantly pressuring her and pushing her and waving the Bible in her face to show her what she's doing is wrong and getting others to talk to her in your behalf? Or is it letting her go and giving her what she wants even though it breaks your heart? I'm not trying to force an answer on you, but it's something to meditate on.

But I don't want my wife to think I'm no longer interested in her.

Oh she knows.

I told her point blank that my heart is for her.

OK you said it. Now don't keep saying it. Once is enough. She already knew. She still knows. Constant reminders are pressure, and you need to remove all pressure.

Ahh great. Spent the weekend hearing about how my distance, affect and short responses are triggering my W because of 10 years of emotional abuse.

I tried not to engage. I really did.

Good opportunity to listen and validate. Right now NOTHING you do is going to make her happy. She'll find reasons to dislike everything you do. So you've got to do them for you, and with a LONG TERM view of saving your M, not a hope that you'll see an immediate positive reaction.

I just can't believe I'm still hearing this. I've given her all this time and we are still here 18 months later. She doesn't see it that way though. Because I didn't instantly change 18 months ago.

Again, just listen and validate when she says these things. She is trying to justify her actions, her "rationalization hamster" is running it's little legs off. You can't reason with her, don't even try. Read up on validation. The beauty of it is you are not agreeing with her, you are simply acknowledging her feelings. Her feelings are valid no matter how crazy they are. You have to learn to accept her feelings and let her have them.

[SteveLW]

si, am a very conservative Christian. I believe Christ died for the church and gave his life for it, just like we should be willing to do for our spouse. However, notice, Jesus doesn't "pursue". He doesn't "pressure". He stands at the door and knocks. Anyone that opens the door he will come in and sup with them

In my sitch I stood at the door and knocked. I waited patiently until she was willing to open that door. For me, I was lucky, and it took just a few months. Most will have to wait much longer.

I think DBing fits in perfectly with the idea of Biblically loving my spouse. Jesus said if someone asked him for a cup of water, he'd provide it, out of love. Our spouses ask for space, we should provide it out of love. Love doesn't mean pressure or pursuit. Love means giving someone what they want/need whether it is easy or convenient for us or not.

Those are my thoughts.

Not sure I believe anything and while I don't have any proof, there was a part of me that wanted her to say she was engaged in an EA because I wanted to have her leave the house. I just am so DANG tired.

How do you square this with Biblically loving your W?

[si13]

Gentlemen. I sincerely appreciate your well thought out words. They are like medicine to my bones. I receive them.

We turned a corner this morning, and when I say that, I mean I confronted her about a phone number I have seen repeating for the last couple of months.

She had no leg to stand on. She admitted that after her AP re-connected with her in February she stopped talking but then got a call from a number in his area. She has consistently reached out to that number.

She confessed that this morning.

She asked me to come back after I dropped the kids at school. I am numb, so I planned to come back and simply listen to what she had to say.

She talked about being lonely, looking for something in this relationship that she knows is unhealthy, knows isn't right but was looking anyway.

I told her I had no reason to believe a word she says.

She said she was so sorry, asked what measures I wanted to take in light of this new behavior and I said nothing.

She asked me if I wanted her to leave, and I said I didn't know right now. I need some time to pray.

I know I can go back and read Sandi's thoughts on what to do now that she has at least admitted to pursuing this relationship still after 18 months.

But I am so confused. Men of faith, Steve, AnotherStander, I want God's heart in this decision. She is clearly making a decision with what she is doing. I told her I would not be disrespected like this.

Going forward I don't know what my play is here. I want to be married but she is gone. I don't want to hurt my kids but they can't live in this environment where everything she does is because she blames me for it. She has had the choice to NOT call anyone, NOT reach out to unhealthy places.

I have been lonely for 18 months. I have engaged in ZERO unhealthy relationships.

But I just don't know where we go from here.

[AnotherStander]

si, am a very conservative Christian. I believe Christ died for the church and gave his life for it, just like we should be willing to do for our spouse. However, notice, Jesus doesn't "pursue". He doesn't "pressure". He stands at the door and knocks. Anyone that opens the door he will come in and sup with them

In my sitch I stood at the door and knocked. I waited patiently until she was willing to open that door. For me, I was lucky, and it took just a few months. Most will have to wait much longer.

I think DBing fits in perfectly with the idea of Biblically loving my spouse. Jesus said if someone asked him for a cup of water, he'd provide it, out of love. Our spouses ask for space, we should provide it out of love. Love doesn't mean pressure or pursuit. Love means giving someone what they want/need whether it is easy or convenient for us or not.

Those are my thoughts.

^^^Very well said Steve!^^^

She had no leg to stand on. She admitted that after her AP re-connected with her in February she stopped talking but then got a call from a number in his area. She has consistently reached out to that number.

She confessed that this morning.

Very sorry, I know that has to hurt.

She asked me if I wanted her to leave, and I said I didn't know right now. I need some time to pray.

I know I can go back and read Sandi's thoughts on what to do now that she has at least admitted to pursuing this relationship still after 18 months.

But I am so confused. Men of faith, Steve, AnotherStander, I want God's heart in this decision. She is clearly making a decision with what she is doing. I told her I would not be disrespected like this.

I think this needs to be her decision. My attitude is there are two options:

1- She stays, chooses to work on the M, and cuts all contact with OM (and does it right in front of you, sends him a text stating that she is choosing her marriage and is deleting his info and stating that he is never to contact her again.) The two of you can discuss options as far as IC, MC, Retrouvaille and such.

2- She moves out.

I do NOT see leaving things as-is as an option. If she chooses option 2 that is NOT a reflection on you, it is 100% HER. I would present her with these options and tell her it's her choice. I would also tell her that if she chooses 1 but you find out that she continues to lie about her activities then she needs to go. So if she leaves, it's either by HER choice or HER bad decisions.

Going forward I don't know what my play is here. I want to be married but she is gone. I don't want to hurt my kids but they can't live in this environment where everything she does is because she blames me for it.

Keep in mind that even if she leaves, that doesn't necessarily mean it's over. Marriages have reconciled after lengthy separations and even divorce. Trust in your faith, the way forward may not seem like the "right" way to you but it doesn't mean it's not part of God's plan.

[SoTorn]

si, am a very conservative Christian. I believe Christ died for the church and gave his life for it, just like we should be willing to do for our spouse. However, notice, Jesus doesn't "pursue". He doesn't "pressure". He stands at the door and knocks. Anyone that opens the door he will come in and sup with them

In my sitch I stood at the door and knocked. I waited patiently until she was willing to open that door. For me, I was lucky, and it took just a few months. Most will have to wait much longer.

I think DBing fits in perfectly with the idea of Biblically loving my spouse. Jesus said if someone asked him for a cup of water, he'd provide it, out of love. Our spouses ask for space, we should provide it out of love. Love doesn't mean pressure or pursuit. Love means giving someone what they want/need whether it is easy or convenient for us or not.

Those are my thoughts.

That is a great perspective Steve. Also, if you ask God for forgiveness he will grant it. Some WS will ask for forgiveness and some wont.

[si13]

Y'all are awesome. These are things I've needed to hear.

I wanted to be clear about what I understand from seeing the phone records (although I suspect there's more I don't know ie: believe nothing they do or say).

I only saw this number called and length of calls are 1 minute every time. It looks as if she is either reaching out to then use another method (chat program etc) or is calling a number that called her from where he used to live but she said there's never an answer.

Again I have no reason to believe her AT ALL at this point.

Problem is she has repeatedly said she doesn't want to work on the M, she wants to work on herself.

Well, not like this I won't.

Every time we circle back in conversation about November 2017 and she stated, "I don't want to be married like this" she also claims to be working on herself in IC. Which is a total load of BS.

She won't concede about emotionally being all over the place - she just goes back to blaming me about abuse, I wouldn't let her work on herself, pressure to work on the M and she needed an escape / distraction which was a full blown, guy moved here to bang my wife affair.

I am calmly preparing my heart to stand up for myself. I indicated what she did was absolutely disrespectful.

I now need to keep moving toward that. She may not want to work on the marriage, as she will claim control and it's not giving her the freedom to find her voice.

But I will not be in an open marriage.

[Ready2Change]

W "I don't want to be married like this"
H"I agree. I don't want to be married like this either"

I think this needs to be her decision. My attitude is there are two options:

1- She stays, chooses to work on the M, and cuts all contact with OM (and does it right in front of you, sends him a text stating that she is choosing her marriage and is deleting his info and stating that he is never to contact her again.) The two of you can discuss options as far as IC, MC, Retrouvaille and such.

2- She moves out.

Boundaries work.

H:"W, I do not want to be married like this. I want us both to be happy. I Want a woman bla bla bla bla... Right now, I do not see that in you. I will not live in an open marriage. I plan on filing divorce so we both can move on."

If she begs you "what will it take" then you can "I am not sure. I need time to think aboutwhat you just said. Then you can work on the no contact.


Dig deep in my quotes thread for ideas. Take notes.

[SoTorn]

Just remember, actions not words. Stop telling her. Stop talking to her about your expectations. Stop pointing out her emotional issues. Stop trying to drag it out of her that she is having an A. Just pull back HARD. Show her that you are not messing around.

If you truly and really want confirmation to ease your mind, hire a private investigator. That is what I had to do. Your WW is gaslighting you. I was gaslighted badly. I honestly almost believed that it was all me. But something just did not add up.

So I hired a PI. Had her followed around when she was on business in CA and easily confirmed her PA. There were other things as well. My EXWW actually denied sleeping with her boss, even though they stayed in the same hotel room. "I just stayed with him because he was sick". Sure lady.

She literally would not relent that she wasnt having an A. I had recording of her talking to him on the phone about him bragging to his friends about having sex with her and her saying dirty things to him. I couldnt listen to anymore obviously, but I literally had to let her listen to herself in that recording before she would admit what she was doing.

It blew her away that I wasnt a fool and that I would go to the extent of hiring a PI to confirm her PA. Even then she still blamed me. After I hired the PI and confirmed PA she literally told me "I can't be with a man who I don't trust". I was like uh, WTF, you don't trust ME?!?!. She responded "You had me followed, so I don't trust you". OMFG the mind of a wayward woman. She also told me "You wanted this to happen". Yeah, sure, every man just dreams that their wife will cheat on them and throw their vows in the trash. Right?!?

I can honestly say that confirming the PA lifted a weight off of my shoulders, but it hurt bad to know that was what in fact was happening. However I then knew that it wasnt me and that it was all her doing. That helped me drop the rope and her continued treatment actually pushed me away from her at lightspeed.

So if that is what you need to help you DB, then do it the right way. Get legal proof with a PI. I have a whole report that I was ready to give to the court if she fought me about D. She never did, we came to an agreement on our own fortunately.

[AnotherStander]

si, I know you want to think the best of your W and hold out hope that the W you knew and loved is in there somewhere, but we've seen so many of these WW situations play out here and what ST describes above is very likely what you are dealing with. Your W is more than likely lying and gaslighting, and then when slapped with cold, hard evidence she only discloses just enough truth to throw you off the trail of what is REALLY happening. I could be wrong but my money says she's deeper into 1 or more affairs than you realize. You need to imagine the bleakest scenario, and ask yourself what your course of action would be if that scenario were true. Maybe you would choose to stand, maybe you would move all her clothes into the yard. I don't know, but whatever that course of action is for you, that is what you should do because the worst you can imagine is probably not far from the truth.