Settling In (LB55 Thread 3)

[LB55]

So I wound up having a discussion with her, it was mostly her talking, I listened, validated her feelings and viewpoints on what went wrong. I refrained from providing my viewpoints, or counterpoints to hers, as this was about me working on my listening and validation skills more than getting my point across.

I think it went well, she is still angry, still blames me for our problems, its my fault that she had to choose D, she has tried for all these years and I ignored her. She isn't wrong, I wasn't emotionally available to her mostly, I kept myself locked up inside and didn't share my true feelings with her very often.

I am mostly happy with how the hour passed, talking in the driveway. She tried to leave once, not angrily, but to try and end the conversation before we got into anything past the surface discussion. I didn't say anything, I just stood there, and she turned around and came back and the conversation continued.

I asked her to help with a timeline for getting the D complete, and she anticipates it taking 2 years or so before we are done. I told her I would like a shorter timeline, because I need to move forward in my life. She didn't say much other than we can't make a mistake with our assets that costs us both dearly. I definitely got the tone of 'I am unsure that I want to think about it being final yet and certainly don't want to do the work to get there. I don't want you doing it either though'.

She did reflect a bit on some good times we've had, laughs we've shared, and when life together was good. It was nice to reminisce a bit. I miss my friend so much. She said that it would be nice if we could sit together at a baseball game, and I told her I would like that too.

I told her I am open to more in person conversations, and less email/text, because she typically takes my written communication out of text. I told her I enjoyed talking, let's do more of this, and said goodnight. All in all, I think it was a good productive conversation and I was able to demonstrate some maturing emotional intelligence to her without overtly pointing it out(something I would have done in the past...see what I've done dear? Im working so hard for you!)

One of the things that I identified, and I didn't point this out to her, but its totally the wrong mindset for love. This is what she told me, and I wrote it down to remember it because it was so wrong in my mind. "I wanted you to love me the way I wanted, not the way that you wanted to love me." Basically that sounds like 'I don't want the gift you lovingly picked out and gave to me, because I want something else.' Selfish? Wow.

Why do I punish myself? Love shouldn't be punishment. It does take effort though. Effortless relationships are the stuff romance novels are made of. But yet I still love her. Not pursuing her, but I'm not doing a good job at letting her go either. At least not the past couple days. I am so desperate right now for some close physical contact. Not sex, just a sit on the couch watching a movie holding hands kind of contact. This is tough.

[LB55]

Ok so question here, one of her comments to me when I asked about putting together a timeline to get the D moving was this: "Why are you in a hurry? Got wife #2 lined up already?"

I simply replied that I would like to see forward progress for my own health, and that I don't have wife #2 lined up already, because that isn't fair to anyone involved.

I'm sure I've read this before, but why do they throw the brakes on D so quickly? I mean this is her only goal in life since December, and now that I want to move forward instead of dragging my feet, she wants years to evaluate her finances and make sure we don't make a mistake financially? D is a financial disaster.

She is really into blame and fault finding. If there isn't someone to point the finger at the problem isn't solved for her. Such a youthful mentality, because if a building collapses and kills 5 people does pointing at the engineer and laying blame fix the building or the dead people? I've learned in my career that all blame and fault finding does is make people shut up about actual problems and take a defensive stance. I'm trying to not get defensive when I'm listening to her. So tough because I'm a rational and logical man, and this is completely opposite.

Her anger is still clouding her thinking ability. She still wants to punish me for everything, I believe anger is behind her actions to take the kids away, to kick me out in the way that she did, to fight over money so hard, etc. How long can one stay angry? I can win a war of attrition with anyone. I just want a fair deal that we can both agree on, I'm not out to screw her over in the name of protecting myself. Unfortunately the same is not true of her. That a consistent theme...that this is her standing up for herself and protecting herself. How is telling the judge that 2 hours per month with the kids is what I deserve protecting herself?

I know to not believe what she says, nor to read too much into anything.

I will just keep listening when she talks and validating her feelings. Cant hurt. Good practice for me and shows good change to her. Will she recognize it? Hard to say. Not my problem to worry about.

[Vapo]

Ok so question here, one of her comments to me when I asked about putting together a timeline to get the D moving was this: "Why are you in a hurry? Got wife #2 lined up already?"

I simply replied that I would like to see forward progress for my own health, and that I don't have wife #2 lined up already, because that isn't fair to anyone involved.

I'm sure I've read this before, but why do they throw the brakes on D so quickly? I mean this is her only goal in life since December, and now that I want to move forward instead of dragging my feet, she wants years to evaluate her finances and make sure we don't make a mistake financially? D is a financial disaster.

Why do they throw on the brakes? Simple answer. Because they want you to remain on the hook. They want you as a plan B, in case the "romance of the lifetime", "the soul mate", does not pan out. They want you to be miserable and on standby. They want to be free to roam the pastures and you right there where they can see you, chained to the fence. So they WILL use their wily ways to keep you in limboland. You might even get some terms of endearment. That completely fcucks us men up. We, men, are mostly logical creatures. We trust words. Women know that. They use words against us. IMO you will do yourself a favor if you do not listen to her and get on with your healing ad growing. Remember, trust nothing they say. This saying was not conjured up from thin air...

[AnotherStander]

Ok so question here, one of her comments to me when I asked about putting together a timeline to get the D moving was this: "Why are you in a hurry? Got wife #2 lined up already?"

I simply replied that I would like to see forward progress for my own health, and that I don't have wife #2 lined up already, because that isn't fair to anyone involved.

I'm sure I've read this before, but why do they throw the brakes on D so quickly? I mean this is her only goal in life since December, and now that I want to move forward instead of dragging my feet, she wants years to evaluate her finances and make sure we don't make a mistake financially? D is a financial disaster.

Well like Vapo said she probably wants to keep you on as Plan B. You've also done a pretty effective job of removing all pressure from her. You've handled yourself with dignity despite her terrible treatment of you and that may very well have her thinking that maybe you're not the demon she had convinced herself you were. But I think you are getting ahead of yourself inviting her to have these nice convos with you, for now you should really try and maintain as much distance as possible. Stick to "business only", just talk about kids hand-offs and such. It's too soon to try to reconnect with her.

Her anger is still clouding her thinking ability. She still wants to punish me for everything, I believe anger is behind her actions to take the kids away, to kick me out in the way that she did, to fight over money so hard, etc. How long can one stay angry?

Yes this is exactly why I'm suggesting maintaining distance. She will be angry at you as long as you are present. Remove yourself from the equation and she'll eventually discover her anger was misplaced, that you are not in fact the root of all her unhappiness.

[LB55]

Ok so question here, one of her comments to me when I asked about putting together a timeline to get the D moving was this: "Why are you in a hurry? Got wife #2 lined up already?"

I simply replied that I would like to see forward progress for my own health, and that I don't have wife #2 lined up already, because that isn't fair to anyone involved.

I'm sure I've read this before, but why do they throw the brakes on D so quickly? I mean this is her only goal in life since December, and now that I want to move forward instead of dragging my feet, she wants years to evaluate her finances and make sure we don't make a mistake financially? D is a financial disaster.

Well like Vapo said she probably wants to keep you on as Plan B. You've also done a pretty effective job of removing all pressure from her. You've handled yourself with dignity despite her terrible treatment of you and that may very well have her thinking that maybe you're not the demon she had convinced herself you were. But I think you are getting ahead of yourself inviting her to have these nice convos with you, for now you should really try and maintain as much distance as possible. Stick to "business only", just talk about kids hand-offs and such. It's too soon to try to reconnect with her.

Her anger is still clouding her thinking ability. She still wants to punish me for everything, I believe anger is behind her actions to take the kids away, to kick me out in the way that she did, to fight over money so hard, etc. How long can one stay angry?

Yes this is exactly why I'm suggesting maintaining distance. She will be angry at you as long as you are present. Remove yourself from the equation and she'll eventually discover her anger was misplaced, that you are not in fact the root of all her unhappiness.

Thanks for the insight and compliment on my behavior. I am working hard to change my attitude and behaviors, specifically with non-defensive listening and validation of feelings without agreeing.

As I thought about it last night at dinner with friends, I need to get the D moving for my own sanity and health. Regardless of what she wants or does, I am going to get my ducks in a row and schedule the mediation and if needed set the trial date to get this over with. I discussed with my L my desires, and she is going to help me get the process moving. I don't need it to finish ASAP, but I can't sit in limbo because its driving me crazy. If I want the situation to improve, I've got to drive the bus now.

I would love nothing more than to slowly reconnect with WW, but she has been and continues to be very disrespectful toward me and I've simply been taking it. Working on my boundary statements the next time we talk and she starts blaming and pointing fingers. "I feel disrespected and un-heard. I am going to walk away now. We can continue this conversation later." Something to that effect.

I'm not trying to reconnect in the sense of re-kindling the M. Her personal space bubble is still about 7 feet, i don't try and get closer, just talk from there. She is very scared and is putting on a front of standing up for herself and happiness. I'm simply at this point trying to establish some non-threatening and effective communication paths. If that leads to reconnecting, then great! If not, it will still be a useful thing for us to be more effective communicators. We both struggled to convey what we wanted, instead hoping the other would figure it out because they loved us, and it led to lots of resentment and anger. She has done what she has done, while it hurts, I'm not angry about it, no matter how many times she tells me she knows that I am angry.

I'm going to keep working at it, moving forward for me and the kids.

[LB55]

Yes this is exactly why I'm suggesting maintaining distance. She will be angry at you as long as you are present. Remove yourself from the equation and she'll eventually discover her anger was misplaced, that you are not in fact the root of all her unhappiness.

Its so easy to see from the outside. Wish I could help her see it too, but I can't.

[neffer]

I often challenge S14 out of his confort zone. Like doing some new sport or similar. His first reflex reaction is saying "I can´t". He has learn to get a PMA so he says he´ll try.

Try it LB. Trust yourself. Free yourself. You need that space too.

Be strong there man. Time and patience.

[ovrrnbw]

One of the things that I identified, and I didn't point this out to her, but its totally the wrong mindset for love. This is what she told me, and I wrote it down to remember it because it was so wrong in my mind. "I wanted you to love me the way I wanted, not the way that you wanted to love me." Basically that sounds like 'I don't want the gift you lovingly picked out and gave to me, because I want something else.' Selfish? Wow.

I get where you're coming from here...you're right. But so is she. I recommend reading the 5 Love Languages. People don't always realize that your gift of love is just that...because you aren't speaking their language. People communicate, and love, in different ways.

Keep going forward and doing what you need to do. She may jump back onboard and she may not. But you'll cross that bridge if the Bridge Crewmembers ever get around to building it.

[LB55]

I often challenge S14 out of his confort zone. Like doing some new sport or similar. His first reflex reaction is saying "I can´t". He has learn to get a PMA so he says he´ll try.

Try it LB. Trust yourself. Free yourself. You need that space too.

Be strong there man. Time and patience.

I am trying to keep a PMA. I'm not always successful, and those days are the worst. I need to continue to work on this for me. I've never been much of a positive outlook guy, and that needs to change.

[neffer]

Well, that´s the attitude man!