That´s the usual path. It´s guilt driven mindreading so as to justify WW/WAS behaviors. I did those exact things when my WWs times. Nothing original, the good all waywardness stereotypes.
These are her feelings actually so validate what needs to be validated. Then get out of it.
They are absolutely valid feelings. I validated my EXWW's feelings, but I wouldn't validate her assumptions. That would piss her off something fierce. That is something that I still struggle with. I am happy to validate her feelings, but she mixes in her assumptions and lies about me into her feelings. She will say "You just used me". I never did, so I am not going to agree to that. I reply with "I am sorry you feel that way". But she gets mad because she wants me to fight and argue or just say "I am sorry I used you", which isnt true at all.
The wayward mindset IMHO is a serious mental disorder. It completely rewires the WS brain.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
As I thought about it last night at dinner with friends, I need to get the D moving for my own sanity and health.
Often it does come to that. The only thing I would suggest is giving yourself some time to make sure you are positive it's what you want. Some LBS's decide that one day, then a few days or week later they're not sure again. So I usually suggest waiting a couple of months and if every day you still feel the same way then at the end of that time go ahead and file. I've seen it happen more than once where an LBS said they had decided they wanted a D, then told their WAS they wanted a D only to have their WAS tell them that was great because it's what they wanted too and then the LBS comes back here practically in tears because what he REALLY wanted is for her to freak out and beg him not to. So just make sure you are doing it for you and not to get a reaction out of her.
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I would love nothing more than to slowly reconnect with WW, but she has been and continues to be very disrespectful toward me and I've simply been taking it. Working on my boundary statements the next time we talk and she starts blaming and pointing fingers. "I feel disrespected and un-heard. I am going to walk away now. We can continue this conversation later." Something to that effect.
If she starts that then say "I will not be disrespected like this. If you continue this behavior then the conversation is over." THAT is setting a boundary. Simply walking away is not setting a boundary. Once the boundary is set, if she breaches it THEN walk away.
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She is very scared and is putting on a front of standing up for herself and happiness. I'm simply at this point trying to establish some non-threatening and effective communication paths. If that leads to reconnecting, then great! If not, it will still be a useful thing for us to be more effective communicators.
Agreed, sounds like a good approach.
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During our conversation in the driveway the other night she told me that she knows I hate her, my family hates her, etc.
Just validate- "I'm sorry we made you feel that way, that must have been very difficult."
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She doesn't care how i feel right now, she knows how she thinks i feel.
But she was telling you how SHE feels, not you. She feels like you hate her. Don't disagree/ argue/ negotiate/ etc. Just validate. Now if she ASKS if you hate her, THEN you can answer her. "No I don't hate you, I can understand why you might feel that way but I don't."
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As I look back on our 15 years, this has been mostly a constant. "I know there is something bothering you", "I know you are upset", "I know you are mad at me", "I know that you didn't fix my car because you don't think I'm a priority", I could go on and on.
All great validation opportunities. If you argue then it's telling her "I don't care how you feel, this is all about how I feel." If you validate then you tell her "your feelings are important to me." Do you see the distinction? Validation is a key point in DB'ing and also in life. Learn how to validate well and you will become an emotional hero to everyone around you.
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That type of statement really puts me on the defensive, because most times its not what I think or feel. Working on my non-defensive listening skills, and I am no longer trying to justify my position or feelings
I don't want her to tell me how I feel, I want her to ask me how I feel.
You can't control other people.
Just understand her. Listen and understand her story. It is not true. It is just her story.
I definitely get that. I can see how that statement is controlling. I don't want to control her.
I want to modify my behavior and my approach to increase the possibility that she will make a choice to ask and actually listen to my answer and feelings. I realize I can't make her do that.
I have been listening to her story, I haven't been fighting back, and I have been acknowledging that they are her feelings. I have stated that I don't agree with her actions, but don't say that I disagree with her feelings.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
That´s the usual path. It´s guilt driven mindreading so as to justify WW/WAS behaviors. I did those exact things when my WWs times. Nothing original, the good all waywardness stereotypes.
These are her feelings actually so validate what needs to be validated. Then get out of it.
They are absolutely valid feelings. I validated my EXWW's feelings, but I wouldn't validate her assumptions. That would piss her off something fierce. That is something that I still struggle with. I am happy to validate her feelings, but she mixes in her assumptions and lies about me into her feelings. She will say "You just used me". I never did, so I am not going to agree to that. I reply with "I am sorry you feel that way". But she gets mad because she wants me to fight and argue or just say "I am sorry I used you", which isnt true at all.
The wayward mindset IMHO is a serious mental disorder. It completely rewires the WS brain.
They are totally her feelings! It took me a while to understand the difference between her feelings/perceptions and mine and how they could be different but yet correct. This is a recent revelation for me and its helped me tremendously to let go.
This is the crux of my point in the comments in the posts above:
I would validate her statement "I feel like you don't trust me". Me: "You are saying that your trust in me is eroded. I see how you could feel that way. What can we do to improve our trust in each other?"
I would not validate the statement "I know you don't trust me". Me: Says Nothing.
Problem for me right now is almost all statements are the latter vice the former. Thus our communication is very hit or miss.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
Yeah, they word their statements so that if you respond you are validating their statements in their mind.
I agree with AS. You feel like D now. Give it a week and then think about it again. If you feel like that in a week. Give it another week. Then think about it again. Wash/rinse/repeat for a month. If after a month, you still feel solid on the choice to go file, then go file.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
She wants to wait a couple of years to ensure the kids adjust and she is financially on her feet before finalizing the D.
I'm not willing to wait 2 years under her thumb legally. I want to be able to move forward, buy a house, find my rhythm, know my financial situation, and want to be able to say yes if someone comes into my life that I want to date without feeling morally wrong. Basically I want the certainty that comes with a finalized document.
If we get divorced and then reconnect, its a waste financially but its better than sitting here under her control. She wants to live her life and wants all the benefits of me except for the me part. She doesn't work, lives in a nice house overlooking the water, has 2 nice vehicles, a nice piece of property, a monthly income of nearly $8000 from rentals and support, can sleep with whomever she wants, and can basically just hang out living the good life for as long as she wants. I live in a crappy rental, parking on the street, scraping by while I pay off debt from legal fees thus far(I still owe $1500 for hers too), and she is living the good life with no real change to her situation except for me not living there anymore.
If I ask for an extra day with the kids, she says that she isn't comfortable with me seeing them more because its not safe for them to spend more time with me. Then the next email says she wants me to have more time with them and I should just ask. That I don't spend enough time with them and its detrimental to them. Rinse and repeat. CRAZY!
Yesterdays text message scolded me for not honoring her on Mothers Day with gifts. I sent her a nice text that wished her a happy mothers day with the kids. I don't feel like getting her gifts is something I should be doing to earn respect. I suspected this would happen based on her comments about getting me something for fathers day, that she was really hinting that I needed to get her something for mothers day. I spent mothers day with my mom for the first time in 12 years. It was always expected that I spend it with W and her mom.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
I would love nothing more than to slowly reconnect with WW, but she has been and continues to be very disrespectful toward me and I've simply been taking it. Working on my boundary statements the next time we talk and she starts blaming and pointing fingers. "I feel disrespected and un-heard. I am going to walk away now. We can continue this conversation later." Something to that effect.
If she starts that then say "I will not be disrespected like this. If you continue this behavior then the conversation is over." THAT is setting a boundary. Simply walking away is not setting a boundary. Once the boundary is set, if she breaches it THEN walk away.
I understand and see the difference. I am bad at boundaries, Ive let her violate every boundary ive ever had in the first 5 years of marriage.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
During our conversation in the driveway the other night she told me that she knows I hate her, my family hates her, etc.
Just validate- "I'm sorry we made you feel that way, that must have been very difficult."
She doesn't care how i feel right now, she knows how she thinks i feel.
But she was telling you how SHE feels, not you. She feels like you hate her. Don't disagree/ argue/ negotiate/ etc. Just validate. Now if she ASKS if you hate her, THEN you can answer her. "No I don't hate you, I can understand why you might feel that way but I don't."
Ok so I'm confused here. I don't see how to validate her telling me how I feel when I don't feel that way. If she said "I feel like you hate me." I can validate that because its her feelings. "I know you hate me." is not her feelings. How does she know I hate her? She can't possibly know what's in my head. The latter seems like the psychological concept of projection to me. She hates herself, but would rather have me agree because then its not her fault.
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As I look back on our 15 years, this has been mostly a constant. "I know there is something bothering you", "I know you are upset", "I know you are mad at me", "I know that you didn't fix my car because you don't think I'm a priority", I could go on and on.
All great validation opportunities. If you argue then it's telling her "I don't care how you feel, this is all about how I feel." If you validate then you tell her "your feelings are important to me." Do you see the distinction? Validation is a key point in DB'ing and also in life. Learn how to validate well and you will become an emotional hero to everyone around you.
So I know not to argue with her, but I am still confused on the validation of feelings vice her statements that don't reflect how I actually feel, or what I was thinking, or why I did something. How does she "know" how I feel without asking me?
"You intentionally didn't fix the throttle on my car because you wanted me to die in a wreck and collect the insurance money for yourself." I just straight up disagree with that, I can't see how she would think that, and I certainly never had premeditated collecting insurance money. This is an actual thing I was accused of by her. If I validate her statement, then she says "I can't believe you intentionally did that to someone you loved!" Does she see validation as agreement with her statement?
Maybe I am over thinking this right now.
Last edited by LB55; 05/22/1911:30 PM.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
"You intentionally didn't fix the throttle on my car because you wanted me to die in a wreck and collect the insurance money for yourself." I just straight up disagree with that, I can't see how she would think that, and I certainly never had premeditated collecting insurance money. This is an actual thing I was accused of by her. If I validate her statement, then she says "I can't believe you intentionally did that to someone you loved!" Does she see validation as agreement with her statement?
Maybe I am over thinking this right now.
Yeah this one is tough but remember: Validate the feeling, not her reason for the feeling. You aren’t agreeing that you intentionally avoided fixing her car. You are empathizing with her feeling.
Thats just an "I am sorry you feel that way" response. Or, if youre not sorry, which you shouldnt be because you didn't do anything to be sorry about "Its unfortunate that you feel that way "
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
"You intentionally didn't fix the throttle on my car because you wanted me to die in a wreck and collect the insurance money for yourself." I just straight up disagree with that, I can't see how she would think that, and I certainly never had premeditated collecting insurance money. This is an actual thing I was accused of by her. If I validate her statement, then she says "I can't believe you intentionally did that to someone you loved!" Does she see validation as agreement with her statement?
Maybe I am over thinking this right now.
Yeah this one is tough but remember: Validate the feeling, not her reason for the feeling. You aren’t agreeing that you intentionally avoided fixing her car. You are empathizing with her feeling.
Yes, this is the distinction I think you're looking for. So it is "That must have been scary driving the vehicle with the broken throttle" or "I see how having a vehicle with a broken throttle would be a very scary experience. I agree, that is not a vehicle anyone should be driving until it is properly fixed".
