Quotes Found on DivorceBusting (8)

[Ready2Change]

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Greetings, this post lays out the potential plan and options I’m considering to follow in the coming weeks and months. This is the culmination of my research reading relationship and self-help books, listening to podcasts, watching videos on cheating, following advice from vets on my thread and others, and scouring countless sitches here to find what works and doesn’t work.

I have given a lot of thought on whether to stay or go due to the Infidelity and chose to stay for a period of time. I accept that BD and the A’s mean the end of my first MR, but I still would like to start a new MR with my W. I have chosen to love and forgive. I have recovered, worked on myself, and am ready to extend this choice to her.

I have listed these in the sequence I would intend to follow and the likelihood that WW would go ballistic by me taking these steps.

1. Ask W to attend RetroV

Simple question to WW, without much pressure. Gives her the opportunity to look at the program info and decide if our 18 year R is worth 1 weekend of participating. The hope is she would attend, listen to the presenting couples, really start to communicate with me, and have a life changing experience to realize that our MR isn’t that bad and can get better. I know that many don’t recommend RetroV until the WAS has expressed interest in R, however, I don’t see much harm in asking if she’s willing to attend. My expectation is low that she would agree to go.

2. Ask W to attend MC

Honestly, I’m not a fan of this option based on her mindset and active A’s. Even if she agreed to go, I don’t know that I could actually find a pro-MR C that would be able to get her to look at us from a different perspective. I have much higher hopes with RetroV based on the format and environment. I would probably skip over this one in the short-term.

3. Ask Sandi2 to talk sense into WW

Mildly joking...but seriously Sandi, I would pay for your flight to Florida and I have a nice guest room in a pool home. How does that sound?

4. Continue giving W time and space

I’m really at the point where I’m over this. Patience is hard, especially when you know the betrayal and lies continue. First known PA was over 7 months ago and she’s had multiple APs, I’m not a martyr to wait forever for her to come out of the fog / valley on her own without action.

5. Confront WW on what I want, reinforce boundary, give her the choice, and move forward.

This is the option that I have researched the most and is coupled with letting her go and tough love. I have read dozens of sitches that addressed confrontation followed by a hard stance of enforcing boundaries with consequences, going dim/dark, moving forward, and/or filing for D. Obviously, each sitch is somewhat unique and this approach has varying levels of success. Timing is critical.

I’ve read many posts from PuppyDogTails, RobX, Sandi2, R2C, AS, Steve85, LH19, TxHubby, Joejoe1, Coach, Greek, Wonka, TimeHeals, FightingFit, GH31, Rockedworld, Theoden, SmileysPerson, Zues126, CDBear, Pinhead, etc. containing scripts and outcomes on confrontation. I highly recommend newcomers read sitches of the DBers listed above when considering whether to apply Tough Love.

I’m still working on scripts and the strength of the statements to make. I have a few different versions that I’m refining. The basic message is to say that waiting for her to makeup her mind is no longer working for me. As long as she’s disrespecting me, our MR, and our family by having a relationship with someone else, that she cannot have a relationship with me. If she continues to contact OM, I will consider all of my options, including D. I tell her that I’m moving forward with my life, then go dim/dark, stop feeding cake (try to get the horse off my property), and only communicate logistics regarding kids.

The goal here is to regain some respect, open the cage door, and let her go to maybe hit rock bottom.

6. File for D w/out notice

Self explanatory. My beliefs and morals have been compromised far too long as it is. Start moving down the path to restore a life that aligns with my moral compass.

7. Let her know we won’t be friends

This option follows one of PuppyDogTails confrontations with his WW. Here is the script:
”I should be clear with you about something. I have absolutely no intention of remaining 'best friends' with you if you choose to end our marriage this way -- by having an affair, running away, and lying to your parents and our children about it. We'll be civil, and we'll co-parent effectively, I'm sure, but we won't be friends. If you decide to end your affair now, however, and come back and work on this with me, going to marriage counseling, each of us addressing our issues, and it doesn't work out -- say after a year -- and we choose to divorce, then yes, I could see a time where eventually we could become good friends again, even though it won't be the same. But not what you're doing now, I'm sorry. This is NOT how friends treat each other, and I respect myself too much to put up with a so-called 'friend' who would do that to me."

I share Puppy’s sentiments regarding how my WW chose to BD, lie, cheat, and separate without ever giving me a chance. If my sitch continues down this path, I have no problem delivering this message.

8. Send group text to APs

Tell the multiple OM to stay away from my W and stop destroying a young family or possibly better yet let them know about her lies with multiple partners and let them battle it out. Unlikely that I would take this step, but rather take the high road as opposed to these predators.

9. Expose the A’s to her family and friends

AllenA was a staunch supporter of exposing the A to everyone. Puppy is another that applied this approach.

Here are some excerpts from AllenA’s posts:

“Publicly expose her choosing an affair over her family and her home... make sure all her friends and family KNOW and that they also know you want to save your marriage. Educate them that you want to save your marriage and that you have invited your wife to work on the marriage and she is choosing to pursue her affair instead. SAY it like that. You putting all that pressure on her is what forces her to make a real tough choice...This is the best way to end this for you... Cut her OFF at the knees and see if she comes to her senses...Not all do, but its the best chance you have...Choosing
a. Marriage
b. infidelity.
These are the choices...”

“It’s also your job to protect your wife from the "grass is greener mentality" and momentary infatuations - these aren't MEN she's cheating with, they are PREDATORS.. they are exploiting her emotional vulnerability, it is your responsibility to protect her from THEM. Pursue no, PROTEST and EXPOSE -- YES. Educate your wife, get her into family therapy and teach her what marriage means in relation to an affair... and the dangers of infatuations and fantasy... she will just get used and hurt in the long run... my wife got used bigtime.”

I know that MWD is not an advocate of exposure:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2238652#Post2238652

AS and others currently posting regularly don’t seem to be either: “I think most LBS's are hoping it moves them from Plan B status to Plan A, but it never, ever does. It just creates a lot of resentment in the WAS, and usually the A will continue but go even deeper undercover (their attitude usually becomes "it's us against the world"). The thing is, she's separated and most WAS's don't consider it an "affair" after separation, to them they're just moving on to a new R. They think they're only "married" in the sense that some pesky piece of paper filed somewhere says so. I know you don't agree with that but that's her point of view right now.”

Highly unlikely that I would take this step as it doesn’t seem to leave the road home paved and smooth. I just view this approach as causing far too much damage that kills any will to return. Not going to spend many calories on this option.

Ok community, that’s all I have right now. Feel free to weigh in with your comments, feedback, recommendations, 2x4’s, etc. I do appreciate everyone taking the time to read my sitch and contribute. It has helped me immensely in taking positive steps emotionally and with my life in general since BD.

[Ready2Change]

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You want answers and all that is offered is GUIDANCE, if there was a sure fire way to do this we would say do these 7 steps and you will get your spouse back 100% .Life isn’t like that , everyone is different and everyone’s sitches are different and in different stages .

For me about 90% helped me immensely, I had to choose the bits that I was sure were not right .

For example Sandls 37 rules , 30 worked for me 7 didn’t. ) was actually less than 7 but I’m keeping it simple .

Work on being the man only a fool would leave. R2C has posted some EXCELLENT advice on this site go through it and use the ones that work for you , after you have got your set of sandis rules buttoned down solid .

Cool , calm , collected and CONFIDENT ( the no. 1 attractive quality for men )

You can do it

[Ready2Change]

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Everything you are saying is about her accepting you. But, be honest with yourself, do you accept her actions at the moment. You mentioned you don't know how you gain your respect, but you do, you are scared of how the encounters with your W will turn out. You know it will be a battle. Guess what, it always is. But it's not about the reaction of your W. When a person respect themselves, they don't care how people react when they make their decisions. For too long you have been making decisions based off of how your W will and won't react.

Now it's time to make the decisions that a best for you. That's how you gain respect.

I wrote this a while back

Can a person truly pay respect if they don't have any?

Respect cost, does a person with no respect for another truly love another. IMO, NO! Respect is not something that is just handed over freely, it's earned. It's action oriented. If a person is disrespected and the person who does the disrespecting is not confronted then respect is lost.

In order for a person to once again begin to love they must first begin to respect. In order for another person to respect another, that other person must respect themselves first. The longer the disrespect continues, the more the respect currency is lost.

But, in order to gain respect, it only takes one brave act, one act to show that disrespect won't be allowed. That act doesn't care what the reaction of the person doing the disrespecting is going to do. The only thing that matters is that the disrespecting stops. Once the disrespect is stopped, there are only two options, to respect or to distance ones self. But guess what, the distance option is a form of respect as well.

When faced with disrespect the right decision to be made, is first am I being used/disrespected. Why am I saying No or Yes. Am I saying "NO" to be mean or am I saying no because it's not conducive for me at the moment. Am I saying "Yes" because I think it will get my Spouse back or am I saying "Yes" because it's actually the right thing to do?

See, respect has nothing to do with being mean or nice. Has nothing to do with hurting another. It's all about a person, not crossing the clearly stated boundaries you have set. Repsect is one person acknowledging that they won't cross your LINE, because they understand you won't TOLERATE them if they do.

Most LBS allow line crossing/disrespect because we don't want our WW/WS to leave us, but the irony/rub is the more/longer they line cross the further away they go. If you want them to ever come back and STAY, STAY is the key word, Respect must be there. The more respect they have the less likely they are going to leave.

So the first steps in winning a Spouse back, is stopoing all the actions that show lack of respect and love for oneself (begging, crying, pursuing). Next start loving and respecting yourself. Next GAL, 180s, and detaching (not to escape, but too heal). Lastly allow no other to disrespect you and for all those that do, show them with action what doing so entails.

The purpose of DB or hope for a WW isn’t ruining their life, it’s leaving them alone and letting them see you grow and become stronger. It's Karma job to teach lessons, it's a LBS job to heal themselves.

Joejoe

Onward and upward

[Ready2Change]

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I can understand how you would be eager to approach your MR with a better sense of the man you should have been all along. Sadly, your W feels the results of your nice guy syndrome. After ten years, she has a lot of anger. I'm not sure if you really understand what it does to a woman who does not have her emotional needs met by her H, but it usually turns her into an unattractive person........unless she happens to be exceptional. Even if there are no personality disorder or some other mental issue, just being a W with a somewhat strong personality can cause a bad dynamic when she has a H with NGS.

She has a lot of anger b/c she feels you neglected her emotional intimacy needs. Now, maybe some guys automatically assume when the word "intimate" is used it means "sexually", but that's not always the case. Being the complex creature that she is, it has more to do with how you make love to her by communicating how she is valued, special, feminine, sexy, smart, beautiful, loved, etc. It is, also, you communicating how she makes you feel like a confident man, fulfills you sexually, inspires you, etc. These are expressions that make women feel great, and I would think it makes the man feel pretty good, as well. This is another way of making love, and I think every spouse has certain emotional needs they want their mate to fill. A lot of men simply don't know how to express these things, or don't understand how important it is to a woman for her H to communicate these messages in a loving, intimate manner. Maybe she never told you what she needed. Whatever her emotional needs were, she felt they were neglected for a long time, so now........she's fed up and feels done. Let me add something else. It's natural for a wife to look to her H to fill these needs, just as it is for him to want her to fill his EN. The trick is to learn what she needs. If she won't tell you, then you have to try different things, and watch her response.

It's unfortunate that the two of you are currently in different emotional time zones. Just as you feel "reborn", she feels like she's dead. You want to show her affection, but she is not in the same time zone. The harder you try to show her how much you love her and want to make up for lost time.......the more you'll push her away. So, you will have to deal with things in different approach than you might have originally thought.

[Ready2Change]

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I don't think people are saying "don't care" because clearly you are not at that point. They are saying "fake it til you make it" then it will start to get easier. The point is not to dislike, not care about, or kill any feelings you have for your wife. The point is to back off and detach so you can get some perspective on what you want in your life moving forward and demonstrate that you are not always going to be waiting in the wings as a "Plan B"

[Ready2Change]

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Maybe this will help. There is no one on earth, not even your W or S ( well children are debatable) that is more important than yourself, your well-being, your security, your happiness, your future, and your confidence. No one..... I've realized it after reading so many stitches here, all these issues within all these marriages come down to self-respect healthy boundaries wants and needs communication validation compassion self integrity core principles and values.


This is going to sound counter intuitive but I want you to try being so miserable to the point where it's pathetic to where you no longer want to choose misery anymore and choose happiness. Choose it first and foremost for yourself in every moment and everything that you do and then go and pursue your GAL activities with people that you care about and care for you.

[Ready2Change]

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One of the msot helpful things I learned in therapy is that human brains love stories and they hate to be bored. So my brain (and it sounds like yours too) will make up stories and then we get all worked up over something that hasn't happened yet and might not ever happen. Our brains don't care if the stories make us unhappy, they are just glad to be entertained.

I learned to get a lot better at stopping my brain when it went off on one of these stories of things that hadn't happened yet but might happen. It helped me a lot.

This is one of the reasons GAL--especially if you are doing new things--is so helpful. It gives your brain some entertainment that doesn't involve raking you over emotional coals.

Don't worry about board statistics. In your situation, you don't know your wife is having an affair yet. If she is, you will eventually know for sure, but until that happens, don't go borrowing trouble you don't have yet.

Focus on GAL, becoming emotionally healthy, being a great parent.

[Ready2Change]

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One of my go-to quotes right after BD was from the end of the movie Castaway when Tom Hanks said

"And I know what I have to do now. I gotta keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"

No one can know the specific details of their future, but you can know that no matter what, life will be beautiful if you make it so. Incredible things are on the horizon, though maybe you can't see them at the moment.

Just thinking about this now as I am reading through a lot of sitches here where people are understandably really struggling with mindset. PMA and GAL are so critical. And understanding that no, You Will Not Die. To the contrary, you will have a fantastic life, if you want one and make one for yourself.

[Ready2Change]

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Still trying to get a handle on my 180 to be less frosty to the W. I was just reading back through my threads - I think this is a good exercise - and pulled this timely nugget from AnotherStander:

It's never too late to do a 180. Whether you do a 180 the day after BD or 10 months after doesn't really matter because brother, you already got BD'd. So ANY 180 is an improvement, right?

I can and will get to where I need to be on this issue. Every interaction is a new opportunity to get it right. The only thing stopping me is me.

[Ready2Change]

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Women love men that call them out on their [censored]. The good women will make it easy on you, the will help you be the MAN. The crappy ones will test and test and test, never giving an inch, they will make it very hard for you, constantly challenge your boundaries, the decisions you make, etc.

Really anything you do now is going to be considered pursuit.

IMO you have to work on building her attraction levels, getting her respect, and getting her to a place to where she can't resist you. Get her in a position of chasing you vs you chasing her.

In general though you should always be gauging and taking inventory of your W's or GF's attraction levels. Taking inventory of her complaints and how she is acting towards you. It never ends and when you put it on cruise control is when crap like this usually happens. It happens because you deviated from what caused her to be attracted to you in the first place.