Steve, when I caught my W's EA I had no evidence. I had a gut feeling. An instinct. That said "something ain't right". So search in your gut. You wrote the "her queerness" paragraph above. My guess is that you already suspect something. Even if it is just an EA at this point in time. We have a saying around here: a monkey doesn't jump from the branch it is on until it has identified another branch that can support it.
Fair call out - she identifies as bisexual, but with the rise of #metoo and everything, I think it's made her a lot more sensitive to feminist issues. As a result - and probably as a function of us having problems - she joined a female-heavy volunteer group that works locally to put progressive candidates onto community boards. That group is also very heavily aligned with the LGBTQ community.
I don't think she's had an EA/PA, but I can agree that the pieces don't add up and the timing is very coincidental.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Living together before marriage is often referred to as "trying it out before getting married". I am anti-shacking up, but this has been the rationale for living together for as long as I can remember. "Trial separation." What do you think that is a "trial" for? I don't know the stats but I would say that the statistics for those that separate would show a pretty high D rate for those that go that route. "but something needed to charge in order for both of us to get a new perspective." I agree with that statement. But my point is why is separating the change? Why is her not sleeping in another bedroom (ok this is NYC so you might only have one, but there is the couch!)?
Now here is the thing. You have no control over that. "I would prefer if we remained together while we work through this. However, I cannot stop you from moving out so if you feel that is what you need to do I will not try to stop you." However, I have to say, that packing up books sounds pretty permanent. And what about leases, assuming she is moving into her own place (do you even know this)?
I definitely said something along those lines, but I think she's dead set on changing the perspective. I'm paraphrasing what she's told me, but her opinion is that things between us having gotten so bad and it was so upsetting to her to have our alliance in such a place that it caused everything to be colored black, making it impossible for us to see the good in each other. The only way (and again, I'm paraphrasing her here) for her to regain perspective and attempt to view things differently is the change the situation, as painful as that might be.
I understand the logic. It [censored] and is painful, but I understand it. I do believe that she's been upset for months, and feels like I wasn't hearing her, that I wasn't putting the homework from MC in place in our day-to-day life, and that I took for granted that she'd always be there. And I can't say she's wrong about most of it.
Not sure what vows you guys took on your wedding day. Most of us said something along the lines:
"I take you to be my <spouse>, to have and to hold from this day forth. For better or worse, for richer and for poorer, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others, til death do us part."
Notice it does say "unless you don't hear me, do MC homwork in day-to-day life and aren't there for me!"
None of us were perfect spouses. That doesn't give the walkaway an excuse for the choices they've made.
Remember, believe nothing she says. Thre are reasons for everything the walkaway utters.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Just a random thought: I've been poring through thread after thread on this board, and something caught my eye: Never be a Plan B, the longer you are, the longer the purgatory lasts.
It made me think of a time where we had a relatively large fight - I was in the wrong, she caught me in a very dumb lie the details of which are not worth getting into - but when she said something along the lines of "I can't ever trust you, it's over", I literally did a 180 in the street and started walking in the other direction. This called her bluff and she ran to me, saying she was sorry she said that.
Given that and above maxim, wouldn't the logical continuation of that line of thinking be to serve *her* D papers as a consequence of her asking for a separation? It sounds risky as hell, but it's same principle, right?
SteveS - I caution you to avoid targeting specific outcomes. That is classic NGS behavior - doing something in the hopes of achieving a certain outcome from another person.
That being said, if I was in your shoes (and I kind of am if you read my sitch), I would want to reach a point where I was calm and collected and confident in saying: "I am filing for D, because whether we R (my hope) or D, I will be a happier healthier version of myself." Yes, filing is alpha behavior and may be best for your sitch... you are the expert on your sitch, tailor advice as needed.
I guess the other reason would be that you feel this is your only remaining shot at R, in which the separation is a waste of your time and emotional energy. Again, you are the expert on your sitch... and honestly even in that case I don't think anyone can know whether R is possible.
SteveS - I caution you to avoid targeting specific outcomes. That is classic NGS behavior - doing something in the hopes of achieving a certain outcome from another person.
That being said, if I was in your shoes (and I kind of am if you read my sitch), I would want to reach a point where I was calm and collected and confident in saying: "I am filing for D, because whether we R (my hope) or D, I will be a happier healthier version of myself." Yes, filing is alpha behavior and may be best for your sitch... you are the expert on your sitch, tailor advice as needed.
I guess the other reason would be that you feel this is your only remaining shot at R, in which the separation is a waste of your time and emotional energy. Again, you are the expert on your sitch... and honestly even in that case I don't think anyone can know whether R is possible.
Thanks for the thoughts. I don't think I'm in the place yet to make any definitive decisions - BD was only three weeks ago and we're not separated yet - but I'm certainly giving everything a whole lot of thought right now.
Not sure if I mentioned it before, but WAW is in Virginia on a bachelorette party for her cousin. That must be a bit weird, celebrating someone else's upcoming wedding while hers/ours is on the ropes. She sent me a text Thursday that she got in safely, but nothing last night. This is one of the harder areas - almost constant contact for seven years, and now entire days with none. Last Saturday was probably the first day in seven years in which we didn't talk at all. It's probably negative behavior to pay attention to these things, but it's meaningful to me right now that she's still initiating contact. I will admit in the safe space of this forum that when my phone buzzes, I am hopeful it is from her. Again, I know that's not helpful for me right now but there's no value in being dishonest about it. It is what it is.
Given the weekend to myself, I drew up a plan of what I wanted to accomplish. Go out and get some new jeans to accommodate the weight I've lost from working out, put a lot of old memorabilia of our R into a box so I don't have to see it anymore, hit the gym twice, do a 180 on some leadership-related behaviors (work out a fixed budget during the S, get my/our various financial affairs in order and in a central location, etc.), and see friends. I'm also going to start making a long-term plan for a potential R - not in the NGS way of "if I do this, she'll do that", but more written reminders to myself about GAL, validating, not initiating, and so on.
Still very much on the fence about MC. IC will continue for both of us. I've read enough on here that what works is often counter-intuitive, and that while MC will be a fixed opportunity for us to meet, work together, and re-form as a team, I also recognize that it might not be giving her the space that she needs and ultimately end up adding pressure. Maybe the right strategy here is to go to our next session, see how it goes, and then decide.
Also on the fence about wearing my ring. She hasn't since the BD, and I have to say that's one of more hurtful things about all of this, noticing that. I feel sheepish wearing mine when she doesn't, but I also feel like we're still married, so it's an external signal to everyone about my intentions. I haven't worn mine the past few days and it's very felt strange.
Been thinking a lot about perspective, and how to maintain it. One thing that my friends are very good about is pointing out things that are true in a vacuum: I'm young (37), I have a lot of physically attractive qualities (6'5", in good shape), and have had lots of professional success: started a company, sold that company, now C-suite at a 1000-person company. These things are objectively true, and I know they are right that in the worst-case scenario, there are plenty of fishes in the sea, particularly here in NYC. That's obviously not what I want, but it's good to have that baseline. I need to remind myself of that.
The other aspect of perspective I'm trying to keep is that I have a good friend of mine, actually an ex-hookup from my college days, who is now a single mother and suffering from Stage 2 cancer. It's awful and she's such a fighter. I check in with her every few weeks just to see how she is doing, and one of the things she told me when we talked last is that at the end of the day, your health is what matters. Worrying about the things that are small in comparison to your health will seem so minor when you're up against something like she is.
Anyway, step by step, one day at a time, moving forward.
Just been reading your sitch and the wedding ring thing is right where I am.
She kept hers on post BD for a while but after a couple of months she went much colder on me (likely OM) and took it off. I still wear mine a) out of habit and b) to show my intentions to anyone else who is paying attention.
I’m starting to feel like it may be time to take it off but, whether W does or not, I believe in the sanctity of marriage and that it isn’t over until it’s over. Maybe that’s hopelessly naive and shows that I am still to attached, I don’t know.
Anyway, good luck, brother. Keep up the good work.
I'd take the ring off and forget about her. Lots of advice here on wearing the ring to show your commitment. I think that's anti DB bc we always take about how old R is dead and how you don't want to be plan B and you don't want to look weak. Everyone's sitch is different, and I'm a bit more intense of a person, so when I finally started letting go I took the ring off. I haven't put it back on yet and we've been back together for a couple months now.
Last year I was right where you are with the ring and hoping every text would be from her. That's normal, I'd try something to retrain your mind there.
I also stopped bringing up MC. I don't think it works for everyone. Therapy in my sitch is connecting, listening, understanding, leading by not fighting, little dates, wine nights. MC is a lot of pressure IMO.
Reminding yourself of success is great, but if you're like me you want to make sure you don't become arrogant. You probably are more successful than I am, but totally different lifestyles from where you are to here. I wouldn't want to work in that environment either, too much politics for me and I like wearing golf clothes to work. Kudos to you on that.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Just packed up all of our wedding and relationship memorabilia into a box. Really, really painful. So hard to look at the happy photos, putting myself mentally back into that tux. It was only two years ago.
I can't live in the past though and seeing it around the house every day would only drag that out. Empty shelves and walls are just as sad, just in a different way. Plenty of time ahead to fill them with my own adventures.
Just been reading your sitch and the wedding ring thing is right where I am.
She kept hers on post BD for a while but after a couple of months she went much colder on me (likely OM) and took it off. I still wear mine a) out of habit and b) to show my intentions to anyone else who is paying attention.
I’m starting to feel like it may be time to take it off but, whether W does or not, I believe in the sanctity of marriage and that it isn’t over until it’s over. Maybe that’s hopelessly naive and shows that I am still to attached, I don’t know.
Anyway, good luck, brother. Keep up the good work.
R
Thanks both for the advice. The wound is still pretty fresh so I think I'm just going to do what feels right until I have more clarity and a more level head. I'm not even one month in, WAW hasn't separated yet. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
