I will politely disagree with Steve85. I would project that you are "excited" to have your own place and freedom. I would be moving her stuff out of my way and making your place "manly". I would be excited about all the "new space" I have available. Ask her when she will be done? I have people coming over tonight. Let me help you with this.
Ask a few buddy's over for a beer and painting party.
You do not want to be friend zoned. You want W to see you as Alpha.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
We also have time carved out on Wednesday to go through our finances together. Her current position is that I should help her with a chunk of the rent of the new place, and that we should maintain the current status of a shared bank account, and shared cards that we use for things. I don't have much of an opinion on the former, but on the latter I feel it is obvious that if we are to separate effectively, we have to separate financially as well.
Just to reiterate what R2C said, get everything separated ASAP. No joint account, no joint CC's. You've got to protect yourself and if she is MLC or GGW-prone (which you won't know until it's too late) then she can quickly rack up some serious debt that you will be half responsible for. If you come to some kind of agreement that you'll be paying for part of her rent or bills then establish what the fixed dollar amount is up front and transfer it to her account each month and let her pay her bills herself. Don't fall for the "oh but this is just temporary so let's leave the joint accounts in place" BS. She fully intends for it to be permanent. She may change her mind later, but for now that's what she's thinking. Also, hopefully this goes without saying but her new place and bills need to ALL be in her name. Don't cosign!
Also I'm not sure what her financial status is, does she work? Is her income comparable to yours? If so then you shouldn't be paying her a cent. Don't fall into the trap of thinking if you give her money it will earn you a spot in her good graces. It won't. I loved my XW very much and would have done anything to keep her in the M. But when she decided to separate I (thanks to advice from here) refused to leave the house, refused to accept less than 50-50 custody of the kids, and refused to give her a penny in support even though I made more than her. You can't buy a WAS back. By standing by my conditions I took some control back in a situation that felt completely beyond my control. And I earned some respect back too, she knew she couldn't just walk all over me.
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Starting to put some plans in place, too: reconnected with friends, joined to sports leagues, reached out about two volunteer opportunities. Time to be the best me.
Awesome!
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I let slip that I preferred for us to get as much space as we need to gain clarity on our situation. I'm concerned I played my card, which is no contact and GAL. If she's expecting it, I gain no value from it, right?
No I don't think telling her matters much, don't sweat it. But it IS important to back it up with actions. She'll believe your actions much more than your words. By the way the "value" is to you, not her. It will help you learn to cope with the situation. It's going to be hard at first but after a while you are going to start feeling much better about yourself. In-house separation is absolute hell to go through, physical separation is actually easier.
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I'm growing concerned that this guarantees a friendzone outcome, where she's closed the door on our romantic life together and is only interested in opening it back up for a platonic friendship.
If you do what you say and go dark, then it'll become clear to her that you're not interested in being her buddy.
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The other side of this argument is that after we S and I go no contact, GAL, work on myself, etc., if there truly is a future for us, it's going to be Phase 2, not Phase 1. Phase 1 is over, that part of our lives is dead. It seems unlikely that Phase 2 will be just like where we left off, so wouldn't that basically mean that it has to start over again the same way our original relationship did, which was a friendship that turned into more?
Yes that is exactly right. Your old M is dead and gone. You might have a new R with her in the distant future though, only time will tell.
Yes that is exactly right. Your old M is dead and gone. You might have a new R with her in the distant future though, only time will tell.
I'm sure I'm not saying anything here that people don't know or haven't felt themselves, but this is the hardest truth of them all. My heart tells me to think about the 90% of our relationship that was positive, and not the 10% nosedive that has gotten us here, but that's not going to help any. It's like a sugar high before the crash. My head knows that the memories remain, they exist in pictures, they'll stay with me. But that door is closed, and it's one-way. It's OK to mourn that.
Thanks for all of the real talk regarding the finances. I'm going to hold the line. She does work - after a prolonged period of consulting part-time and trying to make a career of her art - but her income is significantly less than mine. I have no interest in punishing her or being petty, but I also have no interest in being a pushover and leaving myself unprotected. There is a middle ground here that we need to find.
Just journaling a little bit. On the subway home, I started thinking about the finances again. It was hard not to get emotional, because like many people, the topic of budgets and spending were at the core of some of our biggest impasses during the M. It just really reinforced to me, again, that the M as I knew it is over. It's so hard just to be OK with that right now. The dreams we had, the excitement we had for what was ahead of us. I don't know how people do it. It's just so painful right now. That was only two years ago.
I also realized that I still don't have a great explanation for why this is happening, although I guess it's irrelevant because it's happening whether I like it or not. It was originally brought up to me as a trial separation in order to have space and gain clarity - hence the subject of the thread - but she is holding firm that it needs to be a legal separation. I'm speaking to a lawyer on Thursday, but to me there is a big difference there. My understanding is that a legal separation is the equivalent of a divorce, in that you come to a legal agreement regarding support and how assets are divided, yet you are not formally divorced and thus can retain some of the marriage benefits, such as health insurance.
I don't want to talk M or R with her, but I feel like I need to get clarity here. If she is only going the S route to maintain something like health insurance, I can't go along with that.
I don't know how people do it. It's just so painful right now. That was only two years ago.
It is hard and painful. More painful when you think about how we see all this happening but are helpless to stop it with no control
Originally Posted by SteveS
I also realized that I still don't have a great explanation for why this is happening, although I guess it's irrelevant because it's happening whether I like it or not.
This is the hardest part. In my sitch exW herself does not have an explanation for why this is happening except that she is unhappy and feels the need to get away from me to be happy again
Originally Posted by SteveS
My understanding is that a legal separation is the equivalent of a divorce, in that you come to a legal agreement regarding support and how assets are divided, yet you are not formally divorced and thus can retain some of the marriage benefits, such as health insurance.
In their mind the MR is dead. It is surprising how they can almost be cold hearted in approaching things with the split with respect to money. Almost as if all there is no emotion left for all these years of love and togetherness in the MR
I don't know how people do it. It's just so painful right now. That was only two years ago.
It is hard and painful. More painful when you think about how we see all this happening but are helpless to stop it with no control
Originally Posted by SteveS
I also realized that I still don't have a great explanation for why this is happening, although I guess it's irrelevant because it's happening whether I like it or not.
This is the hardest part. In my sitch exW herself does not have an explanation for why this is happening except that she is unhappy and feels the need to get away from me to be happy again
Originally Posted by SteveS
My understanding is that a legal separation is the equivalent of a divorce, in that you come to a legal agreement regarding support and how assets are divided, yet you are not formally divorced and thus can retain some of the marriage benefits, such as health insurance.
In their mind the MR is dead. It is surprising how they can almost be cold hearted in approaching things with the split with respect to money. Almost as if all there is no emotion left for all these years of love and togetherness in the MR
RIGHT? Trust me it gets pettier and pettier once the finances split. Once that snowball gets rolling its going to get tit for tat with everything from the garbage to the dishes to the lawn care to the recycling to the food and to the child care. You feel so removed and things being so petty and cold by their actions while they attempt to maintain niceties to your face that you will start to ask yourself? Does she treat her family, friends, strangers with more compassion? DONT LET THEM CAKE EAT. LIKE FOR LIKE TRADE FOR TRADE WORTH FOR WORTH.
Steve, I want to assure you that you are not alone in thinking this feels like the worst thing a human can go through. I feel like I am licking the floor of Hell. For the past three nights, I have woken up to dreams about reconnecting with my wife. It feels so good, and then I wake up looking at the two feet of space between us in the bed. Those two feet feel so close but also a million miles away. She has always been the love of my life, and to my shock and surprise she doesn't feel the same way about me. Hang in there buddy. Know that there are others like us out here who are suffering alongside each other. Stay strong.
Thanks for all of the real talk regarding the finances. I'm going to hold the line. She does work - after a prolonged period of consulting part-time and trying to make a career of her art - but her income is significantly less than mine. I have no interest in punishing her or being petty, but I also have no interest in being a pushover and leaving myself unprotected. There is a middle ground here that we need to find.
Yes exactly. Be fair, but don't be generous. Because regardless, she more than likely will not appreciate it. WAS's are like the government's new 1040 tax form- "Line 1- how much did you make last year? Line 2- send it in."
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It just really reinforced to me, again, that the M as I knew it is over. It's so hard just to be OK with that right now. The dreams we had, the excitement we had for what was ahead of us. I don't know how people do it. It's just so painful right now. That was only two years ago.
It is an absolutely terrible thing to go through. But once you do, you'll really feel like you can get through anything. You'll be stronger and more independent. And there is always the chance that you will reconcile, it'll probably just take a lot longer than you would like.
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I also realized that I still don't have a great explanation for why this is happening, although I guess it's irrelevant because it's happening whether I like it or not.
You'll never get a good explanation because most of the time the WAS is not really sure why they are doing it themselves. They are confused, yet resolute.
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It was originally brought up to me as a trial separation in order to have space and gain clarity - hence the subject of the thread - but she is holding firm that it needs to be a legal separation.
And when I say "resolute", I mean resolute that they are done and want out of the M. Calling it a "trial separation" is just their way of letting the LBS down slowly, and also dangling the carrot of "hope" out there so the LBS will be more open to giving them everything they want. If you don't give her exactly what she wants then just be ready for the monster to come out. Whoever your wife used to be, she's not that person anymore.
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I'm speaking to a lawyer on Thursday, but to me there is a big difference there. My understanding is that a legal separation is the equivalent of a divorce, in that you come to a legal agreement regarding support and how assets are divided, yet you are not formally divorced and thus can retain some of the marriage benefits, such as health insurance.
Yeah in states that have legal separation that's pretty accurate. Some states like mine (TX) don't recognize separation.
Originally Posted by IHCLACS
RIGHT? Trust me it gets pettier and pettier once the finances split. Once that snowball gets rolling its going to get tit for tat with everything from the garbage to the dishes to the lawn care to the recycling to the food and to the child care.
Amen! So true. I think I shocked people on here back during my sitch when I came here to report that my XW took half the paper towels and even took a bottle and poured half a bottle of dishwashing liquid into it. I AM NOT JOKING. If you had told me anytime before BD that this would be happening I would have laughed in your face, I would have told you my W was the most caring, generous person in the world and would never do such a thing. That's the hardest thing for most LBS's to grasp- this ain't the W you knew.
Thank you all for the replies, I can't quote and respond to them all but they've all be extremely helpful.
Before I left for work today, we had a quick chat and decided that tonight was going to be clear for us to talk through the remaining things before the S on Friday. It's really, really hard to keep an even keel when I see her putting things into boxes, but I've been doing my best. I will admit lots of failure though: at MC, I choked up a few times talking about how I'm feeling and I know tonight is going to be just as hard. I'm not begging, pleading, or anything like that; I'm just hurting.
I'm not having any trouble with GAL, and tonight I think we'll get to..a reasonable place so far as the finances. I'd like some advice on how to address the actual S, because as I said in previous posts, I'm confused and we haven't discussed it much at all.
I don't have the capacity to say "F you, if you want to leave, there's the door" because that's not how I feel, and she'd also immediately know that it's me putting on a front. I don't however have a great understanding of her complaints (and thus not sure how to 180), nor do I have an understanding of how she's approaching the S. Is this really about getting space to gain clarity, or is this just purgatory because we're too afraid to D? When we had the initial BD about a month back, I completely shut down and left the house. It was too overwhelming. But now I don't have much insight or clarity into how she's thinking about it.
It feels like just leaving it completely open-ended is disastrous, particularly combined with my plans of going completely NC and cutting off MC. Tonight I'll have more clarity on why LS vs TS but apart from that, how much of this stuff is worth talking about? I know I want to project indifference and excitement at the opportunity to better myself, but there's so much uncertainty here. I don't expect her to say "In n months, I'll know" but there has to be least some structure, right?
