It is for your own mental well being. Her calling it a "trial" is an easy way to let you down gradually. Don't get hung up on that word.
If I was strong enough at the time I wish I would have filed when my XW first moved out. We were separated for 8 months before she finally filed. She waited to file until she was comfortable she would be ok on her own, our kids were adjusted to living in separate homes, and she had found another man to move on with. In the back of her mind she always new that I didn't want the Divorce and new she could always return.
I don't think filing would have changed anything in my situation but I definitely know it would have made her more uncomfortable.
Same question that I had for LH19 - what exactly does dropping the word "trial" mean? I just say, we are separating, I'm signing a year lease somewhere else and moving on? But not filing?
Yes this is exactly what you need to do. You are an over analyzer and I am afraid until you get into the mindset that this is more then likely just a slow train to D town that your well being could be at stake.
U, Others have touched upon this earlier but I wanted to restate its importance based on my experience.Have a good understanding of the legal issues if this goes to D when you draft your plan. Even after I had a L there were new surprises and gray areas that I encountered through my process. With a SAHM and three young kids you need to be prepared for a likely financial impact after D. Maybe your sitch and laws in your state are different but this is something you should be thinking hard about. The legal issues others have raised are not alarmist. I see a lot of red flags in your sitch. Remember that it is possible that what happens now will have an impact on the rest of your life. L are very expensive but if you end up in D process sometimes the L fees can seem insignificant depending on your financial sitch
I want to compliment you on your changes over time. You appear to have come a long way and seem more emotionally in control now which in my mind is good progress. This sitch is hard. You have people here trying to give you honest advice and 2x4s but we all know it is hard to actually implement so we don't hold any slips against you. Continue to stay strong and keep moving forward.
Just want to say thank you to all providing such great feedback here.
I'll try to respond in one posting:
I am well aware this is a slow train to D, whether or not my W realizes it. I'm trying too hard to play the "This isn't what I want, I won't stand in your way" card. Rather than bulldozing me with D, my worst-case scenario is that my W chips away, chips away, chips away, until I am worse off than just going straight to D.
I also know D will be a mess. Splitting assets is one matter (for instance, I had a decent chunk of money before the M, and that is 100% legally mine), but the spousal support will be a bigger mess. My W is SAHM now, but she plans to go back to work, and there would be legal arguments over imputed income and ramp downs and the custody percentages will factor in. I know all this. I know that thinking "we will just mediate and she will agree" is not going to happen. Same for custody. I know it will end up me wanting 50/50 and her wanting 66/33 and we'll just go back and forth while the legal fees mount up. Maybe I'll be viewed as the "abusive H" who will spend at all costs to get his way. Whatever. They are my kids, I have my rights.
In short, as much as I'd love to mediate if we D, I know that what I think is fair will not be considered fair by my W. My W talking about how she doesn't want a contentious D is a pipe dream. If she was actually conniving, I would be angry. The fact she is just confused and not in touch with reality is even more frustrating.
Re: potential dating, etc. - yeah, that could happen in a separation. I tend to think my W is so messed up right now it's not even possible, but you never know I guess. It's kind of the least of my concerns for the moment.
MLCxH - one concern about us drafting the plan is she could always come back and say I twisted her arm on it. So it's just very sensitive. It could put me in worse legal position if it appears I forced her... Hence, talking about it in front of the MC (who also works in mediation...)
The whole thing is frustrating. So my W can ask for a "trial separation" and in her confused foggy state actually believe she just wants space and hopefully to reconcile. I look at this and see it for what it is, that we are likely headed for D. I am OK in principle with a 6 month trial separation, but if I try to protect myself, it appears that I am treating this like a D.
It feels like a no-win situation. It's another limbo.
My final point is - don't worry, forum, UC is not moving out without us having SOME agreement in place. Maybe that's an agreement that W and I file for D. Maybe it's a separation agreement with details written out. Maybe I just make a final stand and say I won't move out of the house. I'm not sure where this is heading.
I also know D will be a mess. Splitting assets is one matter (for instance, I had a decent chunk of money before the M, and that is 100% legally mine), but the spousal support will be a bigger mess. My W is SAHM now, but she plans to go back to work, and there would be legal arguments over imputed income and ramp downs and the custody percentages will factor in. I know all this. I know that thinking "we will just mediate and she will agree" is not going to happen. Same for custody. I know it will end up me wanting 50/50 and her wanting 66/33 and we'll just go back and forth while the legal fees mount up. Maybe I'll be viewed as the "abusive H" who will spend at all costs to get his way. Whatever. They are my kids, I have my rights.
Another 2x4 here. I am sorry for it but IMO you need to know there are lot of loopholes. Legally, your money before M can be considered community property in some situations unless you kept it separate. When you are married for 10 years a lot of the money can move around and in many cases it is no longer separate property. If you used money from before a marriage as downpayment for a car and then sold the car after several years of depreciation, it can become a gray area on where that money went. I know your sitch is different and these may not apply in your case but these are misconceptions I had that my L hit me with 2x4s on in my sitch so I at least wanted to share.
Originally Posted by unchien
In short, as much as I'd love to mediate if we D, I know that what I think is fair will not be considered fair by my W. My W talking about how she doesn't want a contentious D is a pipe dream. If she was actually conniving, I would be angry. The fact she is just confused and not in touch with reality is even more frustrating.
My guess is once you have Ls involved it will be a different conversation. Her L is likely to have a strong voice in keeping her demands based on what she can legally get instead of anger and emotion. Downside is her L will probably use anything they can to maximize what she can get.
Originally Posted by unchien
MLCxH - one concern about us drafting the plan is she could always come back and say I twisted her arm on it. So it's just very sensitive. It could put me in worse legal position if it appears I forced her... Hence, talking about it in front of the MC (who also works in mediation...)
These are some of the concerns why it may make sense to pay a L to get advice. Hiring a L does not mean you file for D. You said your wife had a L's card so makes me wonder if she has already hired one.
I am not a L so this is not legal advice but just something for you to think about. I found that my understanding of the law based on reading on the internet or friends who went through D previously can be different from how it worked for a specific sitch.
I am well aware this is a slow train to D, whether or not my W realizes it.
U, your W is not as confused and fogged over as you think. She KNOWS this is the first step towards D. She has NO INTENTION of reconciling after the "trial separation", she's just trying to let you down slowly, and dangle the carrot of recon in front of you to get what she wants (the house, the kids, a nice monthly sum). Don't fall for it, stand up for yourself!
Quote
If she was actually conniving, I would be angry. The fact she is just confused and not in touch with reality is even more frustrating.
Oh I think "conniving" is far more accurate than "confused". WAS's are in a fog for sure, but don't discount how wily they can be when it comes to getting what they want.
Quote
Re: potential dating, etc. - yeah, that could happen in a separation. I tend to think my W is so messed up right now it's not even possible
I think she might unpleasantly surprise you on how quickly she'll take to dating.
Quote
one concern about us drafting the plan is she could always come back and say I twisted her arm on it. So it's just very sensitive. It could put me in worse legal position if it appears I forced her...
If you two write up a separation agreement and you both sign it, then it's legally binding. Period. No one is going to believe you forced her to sign it. If you just come to some verbal agreement then you have nothing you can fall back on legally.
Quote
So my W can ask for a "trial separation" and in her confused foggy state actually believe she just wants space and hopefully to reconcile.
You need to let go of this idea that your W is confused and foggy and wants to work on the M later. She's gone my man. Checked out. Hasta luego. That might change in time but for now this is all part of her escape plan.
Quote
I am OK in principle with a 6 month trial separation, but if I try to protect myself, it appears that I am treating this like a D.
I don't think she'll see it that way. People put written agreements into effect for a thousand reasons every day. I loaned my dad my car and wrote up an agreement with him that he was to maintain it and keep the insurance current. Those were my CONDITIONS of loaning him the car. If YOU are going to move out you should simply tell your W "these are my conditions, if we can't come to an agreement then I am not moving out." PERIOD. Otherwise you are moving out completely on HER terms, which is ridiculous (you shouldn't be moving out at all, but you seem determined).
Quote
My final point is - don't worry, forum, UC is not moving out without us having SOME agreement in place. Maybe that's an agreement that W and I file for D. Maybe it's a separation agreement with details written out. Maybe I just make a final stand and say I won't move out of the house. I'm not sure where this is heading.
Good, I would make it the 2nd or 3rd. D should be left up to her.
I don't really want to comment on the legal situation for privacy reasons. Let me put it this way. I could set this up risk-free, but at that point, I believe I should just walk away.
I know there's also a lot of worst case scenarios out there. Boyfriends. Financial trickery. Bait-and-switch custody. Stealing the house/jewels/heirlooms/artwork/cars.
Some WAS's do all of the above, some do a mix. It is a minefield.
How do you protect yourself? Stay in the house, write up a bulletproof separation agreement, and dig in.
