Alright folks, things are getting extra squirrely and bizarre in UnChien's Monde a l'envers.
After last night's berating about my parenting, I enjoyed heading off for a day of solitude at work. Afterwards I toured one potential house, and it was awful. Just a depressing dark place. I also picked up some moving boxes on the way home.
Earlier today I noticed W had withdrawn a large cash amount, same amount as last week. Since we agreed to run expenses by each other larger than a certain amount, and this cash was double that amount, I just texted her "$X back to back weeks?"
She sent me about 40 texts about everything she used the cash for. Down to like $5 coffees. She said she could make a spreadsheet but that's usually what people aiming for divorce do. I just texted:
"I don't need a spreadsheet. Didn't realize you paid the sitter cash sometimes, that's all I needed to know. I'm sorry if you felt I was scrutinizing you."
I also did point out that this situation will test our trust, and I'd rather be up front and open with my concerns than bury them and worry. And that I hope she does the same.
Then W starts texting me after the kids go to bed (she tends to retreat to a separate room lately). You literally cannot make this stuff up. I am still shocked. I will paraphrase, and insert UC's thoughts after each piece:
#1: "The cost of a new place just seems unnecessary. It's a lot of money. Maybe we can talk to our MC and see what our options are and what he suggests. Especially for only 6 months. The kids can have a home just by being with you <emphasis by UC> There's just so much going on.
UC: <stunned> Is it... could it be... does she actually have no clue what a trial separation entails? Does she not understand how unfair and insulting it is to imply that I just need a little tiny house and that will be great? Does she not understand that, yes, our budget is strained paying one mortgage, and adding rent on a place in one of the more expensive parts of the country is going to cost us? Does she think I'm just going to listen to some MC dude and follow his advice, on something so critical?
#2: "Maybe our MC knows a financial planner that specializes in trial separations? Just want you to be comfortable with financial stuff"
UC: <stunned again> Wow, she REALLY overreacted to me questioning her on cash withdrawals. So she thinks I want a financial planner? This is absolutely insane. What I want is a parenting plan.
#3: 40 texts about packing up forks and knives and spoons.
UC: Ya know, the important stuff right now.
#4: "Everything online about trial separation budgets seems aimed at divorce."
UC: <mind... blown...>
#5: "You should take the knife set."
UC: Huh?
#6:
W: We should write down a plan for kids and housing and talk together about it later this week: UC: In front of MC. W: Of course!! UC: This week.
(I should point out, DB rules be damned, I'm speaking my mind lately. This snippet of text was really W texting 8-9 things for every 1 of mine)
#7: "I'm going to get some books tomorrow about how to tell the kids."
UC: Fair enough, although coming up with a separation plan that works for both of us (which I keep hammering on) is most critical to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Honestly I am stunned. My W is not conniving enough. She seems so... lost. It's obvious she thought last week in MC that I would ask for D. She probably planned on accepting. When I said I wanted to work on the MR, she was stunned. It destroyed her UC narrative. So she stammered for awhile and threw out "trial separation" which sounded like a random suggestion from her IC that she hadn't really considered.
I don't get it and I shouldn't try to get in her head. If she's willing to try this out, and the terms are fair, I am also willing. For now.
This is a golden DB opportunity for me. Time to stand up for myself. We need to have this discussion in front of the MC. I'm not looking to have him point out who's right and wrong, because a good MC won't do that, but I do think he will point out where we are at an impasse. My W is focusing on the financial stuff and what I care about more than anything is a parenting plan. I will make a stand for a proper plan, and I won't move out until we have it.
Am I nuts?! Do people actually treat trial separations so flippantly, especially when kids are involved?
W is going to IC tomorrow. I'm tempted to suggest she talk about what she wants out of a trial separation. (Because she seems to have no clue) Then I tell myself... UC, you let go of that urge to control!!!. Good doggy.
1. Try to remember that women think emotionally and men think logically. That's why so much of this doesn't make sense to her.
2. I think for your own sanity you drop the word trial. You're not likely to find out anything in 6 months. It's just not enough time for her to work through all the stages of her crisis.
My XW rationalized it by saying many kids have gone through D and turned out just fine. Then she rattled off names of 10 to 20 people that came from Divorced families including myself.
I agree with L......drop the word trial. People don't separate with the intentions of working on their marriage.
From my experience she is focused on the little things because that gets her 1 more step away from you and starting her new life. My XW was more concerned about the art work she was going to take more than anything else. She wanted to make sure her apartment looked nice!
I remember about 1 month after my XW moved out I went to see my girls at her apartment before I left town for a vacation. I brought some doughnuts, was drinking a cup of coffee and my XW told me she bought a new dresser. I got up to go look at it (it was in her bedroom closet) and when I started to walk into her bedroom she told me that I had no business going in, to stay out. Once you separate things change very quickly.
You are in the best negotiating position you will ever be in. Because you can give her what she desperately wants and that is freedom. The girl that I am currently dating agreed to only get $1000/mth in CS from her XH at the time of her Divorce. She just wanted it to be over with. Now, 2.5 years later, after the emotions have subsided she wished that she would have got the full amount.
"I don't need a spreadsheet. Didn't realize you paid the sitter cash sometimes, that's all I needed to know. I'm sorry if you felt I was scrutinizing you."
You're wavering here. Find out the facts and take your position.
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does she actually have no clue what a trial separation entails?
Frankly, I don't know what it is. The word "separation" is confusing enough as is. In my experience, it's a word someone who is married uses to explain how they are going to see other people. Adding "trial" to it makes it even more deceiving.
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When I said I wanted to work on the MR, she was stunned.
Time to stop saying this. She's not onboard so no point in mentioning it.
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I don't get it and I shouldn't try to get in her head. If she's willing to try this out, and the terms are fair, I am also willing. For now.
Again, this cements you as the backup. You're relatively new so it's understandable. It's time to show her otherwise in the most non-peacock fashion possible.
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This is a golden DB opportunity for me. Time to stand up for myself. We need to have this discussion in front of the MC.
Nah, just show her you respect her decision and to send you her plan for you to review. You just going to MC after she says she wants separation she is going to see you going to MC as trying to save things. Golden 180 opportunity here.
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Am I nuts?! Do people actually treat trial separations so flippantly, especially when kids are involved?
Again I don't know what a trial separation is, but yes WAS's always act like this. Don't worry about it.
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I'm tempted to suggest she talk about what she wants out of a trial separation.
Lol only do it if you're joking and trying to piss her off.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I highly recommend going to read Hearts Blessings 6 stages of MLC. It helped me greatly in seeing things from their perspective.
My W went from being the most logical sensible person in the world, to being in a persistent fog and forgetting things, losing all logic, and basically making no sense whatsoever from one thought to the next. Mind you, W is also dealing with other normal biological factors too, so its compounded the situation.
Also - highly recommended to read Manly Marriage Revival. Portions of it, especially on separation, have helped me greatly. I think they'll help you too
1. Try to remember that women think emotionally and men think logically. That's why so much of this doesn't make sense to her.
2. I think for your own sanity you drop the word trial. You're not likely to find out anything in 6 months. It's just not enough time for her to work through all the stages of her crisis.
LH19 -
My approach is to identify a plan that is outcome-independent. In other words, I don't want to define a plan with a target goal in mind (other than working on myself). In that sense, I don't really want to change this to an indefinite separation, because that means I'm predicting an outcome, and also setting myself up for further pain.
But I completely hear you that it seems unlikely my W will get through her crisis in that time
My XW rationalized it by saying many kids have gone through D and turned out just fine. Then she rattled off names of 10 to 20 people that came from Divorced families including myself.
I agree with L......drop the word trial. People don't separate with the intentions of working on their marriage.
From my experience she is focused on the little things because that gets her 1 more step away from you and starting her new life. My XW was more concerned about the art work she was going to take more than anything else. She wanted to make sure her apartment looked nice!
I remember about 1 month after my XW moved out I went to see my girls at her apartment before I left town for a vacation. I brought some doughnuts, was drinking a cup of coffee and my XW told me she bought a new dresser. I got up to go look at it (it was in her bedroom closet) and when I started to walk into her bedroom she told me that I had no business going in, to stay out. Once you separate things change very quickly.
You are in the best negotiating position you will ever be in. Because you can give her what she desperately wants and that is freedom. The girl that I am currently dating agreed to only get $1000/mth in CS from her XH at the time of her Divorce. She just wanted it to be over with. Now, 2.5 years later, after the emotions have subsided she wished that she would have got the full amount.
You have leverage.
Hi TBS -
Same question that I had for LH19 - what exactly does dropping the word "trial" mean? I just say, we are separating, I'm signing a year lease somewhere else and moving on? But not filing?
She is focused on the little things right now because she is losing it, and it is something she can do. She even admitted that.
Your point about having leverage is heard loud and clear. This is really my time to set my nonnegotiable terms. I am firm on needing (before I agree to move out): - a written parenting plan - a place that feels like a home for me - continuing with MC (again, for communication issues that will impact our kids for co-parenting purposes).
I don't really know what do for financial at the moment. Lots of ideas, not sure what I like the best.
I highly recommend going to read Hearts Blessings 6 stages of MLC. It helped me greatly in seeing things from their perspective.
My W went from being the most logical sensible person in the world, to being in a persistent fog and forgetting things, losing all logic, and basically making no sense whatsoever from one thought to the next. Mind you, W is also dealing with other normal biological factors too, so its compounded the situation.
Also - highly recommended to read Manly Marriage Revival. Portions of it, especially on separation, have helped me greatly. I think they'll help you too
Stay strong U!
IW - Thanks. I think there is MLC mixed in here too.
MMR is pricy! In your opinion is it worth it just for the separation piece?
