The reason I don't think you should move out is because you will lose access to your children 100% of the time. Additionally, it will look like you left them as opposed to her leaving them. If she really wants a separation, then tell her to go find an apartment.
Destryed is right Uni. She is the one leaving. Don't cow tow to her demands especially if it is going to affect you parentally and financially. People who are leaving shouldn't get to stay, and people who are staying shouldn't be leaving. You most likely are going to pi$$ her off anyway by not going along with some of her plans. Lean into the seperation, but don't fully lean into leaving the marital property. She is going to think you are being belligerent and willful and vindictive by staying because she is not getting the desired outcome she wants. You are not however, you are protecting your assets, your parental rights, and your finances. Remember trust has been eroded. She is no longer the person you married. Who's to say, if coached by a L or mediator, what she might go after in the near future? Once love and trust is gone, its going to become all about resources, money, and kids. Just the nature of the beast, and the sich. Protect yourself.
It's been an eternity (for me) since I posted. So much going on, I'm emotionally spent, so this will be short. It is not a comprehensive "here's everything going on," just some general observations that are helping me through this really difficult and disruptive time.
Two MC sessions this week. This guy is... fantastic. Not because he's going to save my MR. He's really good at communication, calling both of us out on our poor styles. It is so encouraging to see my W make incremental changes, although it doesn't come naturally for her. A lot of our sessions involve her repeating past history, sometimes with details I don't recall in the same way. Like, "I had to drag you to MC last fall," where my reality was "you wanted to hand-select the MC and it took you 2 months, I went along with your plan." But I don't bother to get defensive. The MC more or less said she was "nagging" but in a polite and professional way. I don't think she got it, but I appreciated it. Also he keeps us focused on the present, staying positive, and showing appreciation even while we are separating. W told me she noticed changes I was making as a father, going back several months, and I have to say it felt good, even as much as this situation is breaking my heart. It's not all her fault, and it's not all my fault.
The other thing I like about this MC -- he is absolutely brutal, and that is weighted towards me. Why do I like it? Because I can see what he's doing, he's smart, and he sensed very quickly my W needed that in order to open up to me. Then he backed off and played a more neutral role. Also... the guy moonlights as a mediator, but is absolutely not pushing us towards anything other than helping us with hammering out separation details (because we both agreed to separate). And he's really good at focusing on what we should and shouldn't work on now.
It's sad but necessary that most of these sessions right now involve communicating about our upcoming separation. How to communicate with the kids, splitting up schedules, ways to talk clearly to avoid confusion, etc. W and I have had some huge missteps this week (mostly on her side) of mistaken assumptions that really offended me, where I felt taken advantage of. But I see her trying harder to be clearer in her communication now, and that helps. W wanted to tell the kids not only about our separation, but also our schedules with them, and he nipped that right in the bud.
My W has a very strong worry about me being safe with the kids, which we spend a lot of time in MC discussing. The MC basically told her, okay, you can start off being worried and ask UC to send pics of the kids, etc., but you will have to phase out of that quickly. We both are committed to seeing this MC long-term, so I trust he will keep her in check. It's just necessary whether we D or R or whatever that my W learns to communicate in a less emotional and confrontational manner. I like it so far.
My W also has fears about her emotional safety with me. I understand and accept it. Some episodes in the past have evolved where she remembers them more and more harshly. I know this past between us may be a blocker to us ever trying again. For now, separating and making sure our kids are happy and healthy are the most important thing to me.
Lately every day I wake up thinking I just want out of the MR and go straight to D. The fact is, my W and I need space apart. Even if we D today. We would not be able to co-exist and parent our kids well. So... I'm moving out, and I know that is not the recommended move. The fact is... I'm excited for it. I'm excited to set up my own place, to not have to drive 20 minutes to go to a store, to live near parks and other people, to start my own memories with my kids in a brand-new place. It's an adventure. I am not living in fear of custody or financial consequences, and I won't go into detail why.
So, I decide to S. I fight that temptation to call it off and file for D. And maybe in a few months I'm happier or my W is happier, and we part ways and file for D. That's okay. Or we R. And that's okay too, as unlikely as it seems to me today. Either way, moving out and setting up life with my kids is a necessary step right now, one that I need for myself. I am doing this for me. I am creating a new home for my kids, something I have never had to do before. I am going to learn so much about being a father that I thought I knew, but really didn't. I'm excited. I hope life doesn't involve constant battles with W, but I am happy we are working with this MC.
Hi Unchien, I'm happy to read about your contentment with your decision to separate. When I D'd, I also made the new place an "adventure" for my kids and it helped immensely. My kids' reaction to being told about the separation was muted. My kids' reaction to being unable to return to the other parent for days was not, especially when it came to the second or third separation. It's bittersweet. It passes.
Ok U I am going to be honest with you. You are BSing yourself. You still think you can nice yourself back. You say you're ready and ok to D but your logic and actions speak otherwise.
I think we can agree that if you filed your W would be relieved. So why if you are ready to D and she is ready to D can you not coexist in the house for 6-12 months until you get your affairs in order. Especially while attending MC. I did it for 14 months.
If your W doesn't trust you with your own kids it will take years for you to get respect back from her and to be honest with you probably won't happen.
My exs first choice was to try nesting and I declined and said I would rather get divorced. I was done with the BS and realized it had zero bareing on whether we would ever reconcile and I was NOT leaving my house for some other place.
If you leave your house it's game over and you are going to suffer for a really long time.
It's really simple. "W I've been thinking this over and this arrangement doesn't work for me."
UC, I am happy to see you in a better frame of mind than you were in limbo. You are no longer the emotional mess that you were when you came to the forum. Kudos for the progress you have made.
LH makes some valid points. At the end of the day you need to do what feels right for you because you have to live with the decision. I can see positives of staying in the house and moving out but make your decision with clarity on what your true goal is. Stay strong!
Interactions with W have been intense. Sometimes a small misunderstanding or clarification ignites her into a rant. Or she has to leave the room due to the emotion. I am remaining calm, and trying to not be triggered myself by what I may or may not consider unfair. There are so many minor details that are easy to trip up on but Just. Don't. Matter. What does matter is her telling the kids about when each of us will see them, when we haven't fully worked it out. I called her out on that and she flipped out, but I stood my ground. Her flying off the handle is really problematic -- it will need to change for us to co-parent effectively, regardless of MR status.
I think the 3 months of limbo did me wonders. This is an emotional whirlwind but I am able to withstand it because of the pain of April and May.
The other night, I was writing letters for my kids before I left for this trip. My W was initially upset, and mentioned when I did that in early April I was "emotionally unstable" and all the emotion in the letters made it hard for her to handle the kids after the fact. I didn't mean to be so cold, but I looked her dead in the eye and just said, "Yes, that's when I knew you were thinking about leaving me." I could tell she started to cry and left the room. It may have been a DB mistake, I don't even know, but it felt like water rolling off a duck's back (to steal from Steve85).
We told the kids the other day. It was rough. S7 went quiet, D5 and D3 had no initial reaction. S7 warmed up when I started talking about the other house, and how they can help decorate their rooms. D5 seemed oblivious but that night she said to me while I was putting her to bed "Daddy I don't want to spent 2 days in one house, 4 in the other, 3 here..." It was really really tough to hear. One of the lingering emotions is anger at what this doing to our kids, but I fight off the anger by telling myself that this was both of our fault, whether or not I feel like it was fixable prior to things coming to a head.
Ok U I am going to be honest with you. You are BSing yourself. You still think you can nice yourself back. You say you're ready and ok to D but your logic and actions speak otherwise.
I'm ok if she proceeds with D. Not ready to file myself. First I want to get through the actual separating, let the dust settle a little bit, and see where we are at. Probably in 6 weeks or so I would guess.
Originally Posted by LH19
I think we can agree that if you filed your W would be relieved.
I disagree only because I have learned painfully to stop assuming I know what she is thinking. Could be anything. She's all over the place some days.
Originally Posted by LH19
So why if you are ready to D and she is ready to D can you not coexist in the house for 6-12 months until you get your affairs in order. Especially while attending MC. I did it for 14 months.
We have essentially been IHS for 6 months. My W is an emotional train wreck. I'm not happy. Worst of all, my kids are affected. IHS is not going to work. This leaves the options of nesting (which I think would not be helpful), or one of us moving out.
I prefer moving out. The house is remote, a lot of effort to clean and maintain, and would need to be sold if we end up going down the D path anyways. Instead, I have a place in a great neighborhood with parks and safe for kids, short commute to work. Space for my hobbies. It checks all the boxes that our actual house does not check for me. My wife wanted me to get an apartment, I insisted on a 3BR place that was equivalent living expenses and met other criteria. I need it to be a home for my kids. It is smaller (better neighborhood), and perfect for me.
For MC, our counselor also works as a mediator. All of our MC right now is focused on communication, how to handle the kids, etc. He is really good. But there is zero talk about R, or the MR. All 3 of us (W, me, MC) agree that any work on our MR needs to be tabled right now, for the sake of the kids getting settled. In the meantime, I am happy that at least we are communicating better, because that is necessary D'd or M'd. I am skeptical we will ever get to the MR. I'm just approaching things with an open mind-- either way, our next MC session will be good for my kids.
Originally Posted by LH19
If your W doesn't trust you with your own kids it will take years for you to get respect back from her and to be honest with you probably won't happen.
Probably true. I can't control that. I can just be the best father I can be, and also take to heart that I have at times been angry with my kids in ways that I would like to improve.
Originally Posted by LH19
My exs first choice was to try nesting and I declined and said I would rather get divorced. I was done with the BS and realized it had zero bareing on whether we would ever reconcile and I was NOT leaving my house for some other place.
This cuts to your core message. I agree no matter how we S (IHS, nest, one of us moves out, whatever) it likely doesn't matter. I'm not trying to control the outcome anymore.
Originally Posted by LH19
If you leave your house it's game over and you are going to suffer for a really long time.
I agree that I may be setting myself up for prolonged suffering, rather than making a stand and forcing my W into a much more uncomfortable position where a decision needs to be made more quickly.
I made a choice I think is best for me and my kids. I can live with that for now. I know it may be a huge mistake, and I do really appreciate your advice, and don't want you to think I don't take it to heart. The same goes for the other vets who have given me similar advice. This was a really really difficult decision for me, but I do feel good about it.
