First time poster. In fact, I avoid forums, but I ran across the book and the forums seem to have a nice community about them. Always up to try something new! I'll keep this brief. Haha, maybe not!
Last year I started to attend therapy in response to a traumatic life event. After a couple of months of therapy, I realized I suffered from Childhood Emotional Neglect (CEN). As a child I learned to suppress my emotions and as an adult I just avoid confrontation, passively taking out my frustration. Understanding this was an absolute eye opener. I always felt I was just born weird, but all this time it was simply a lack of understanding emotions. On dealing with this I was reborn and literally awoke to life.
However, before I finished my therapy, my wife initiated separation. She felt neglected and now that the children were older she had enough. She always threatened this but this time she did it. I didn't blame her. I really didn't give her the intimacy she craved and fully understood exactly how I contributed to that isolation. However, I also felt cheated in that I wasn't given the opportunity to finish my transformation and subsequently rectify my contribution to separation.
After separation and during the end of my transformation, I really came out of my emotional shell. I saw my partner in a new light. As a worthy person, whom I don't resent, and deserving of my full love that was always inside but never came out. It didn't matter that we separated. I started expressing myself and attempting affection (but to no avail). It started to look like we'd come around until she then pulled back. Close, yet not there. Maybe I'm being perceived as trying too hard and being needy but from my point of view I'm acting on my feelings. This new me has been around for 6 months and I still live under the same roof as my wife, just in different rooms.
I should point out that finally understand that happiness is my responsibility and despite my situation, which I regard as the worst in my life, I'm actually the happiest I've ever been in my life. My kids are my reason to live, and I see them as my project to ensure they learn to have a healthy outlook on emotions.
About a month ago, I stumbled across a blog that went into deep detail on toxic behaviours and something snapped. I realised that because of CEN I was avoidant and that all my previous relationships were to anxious people. Despite my recovery, I did not recognise and address the boundary violations that occurred (Somehow all this got missed with my psychologist so go figure). I knew I wasn't at fault, but I could never describe why. Now I could. Relationship scorecard, projection, holding the relationship hostage and blaming me for her emotions are the tricks of the anxious. The tragedy is that my children experience some of these tactics too something I'm subtly addressing.
WIth this new revelation I can now stand my ground and no longer feel like sh$t. The corresponding anger and manipulation cycles with civility and almost the hope of being together. I'm always calm in these generated conflicts and confidently deflect all her tricks. When she has a point, I even acknowledge it. Sometimes the arguments are just ridiculous and inside I just laugh. Gotta see the positive.
I'm still not at the point where I can confidentially bust up my family by walking away (She already tried to manipulate me to do that, and I stood my ground). She has so many other great attributes like bringing joy to life in a way I can't. I could almost accept her silly tricks if I knew she was putting in an effort to change. I know can't make her change, but she has noticed my transformation. I can see she backs off on some of her toxic behaviour even though she won't admit it.
But here is my point. I have to wonder, does the Last Resort Technique apply here? Could it ever? Does the LRT even make sense if the other is anxious? I've seriously thought of implementing this. I was already doing different things long before I even discovered LRT interestingly enough and LRT seems compelling enough to try. But I'm unsure how it would work if we are still under the same roof. Seems to me "going dark" would only heighten the anxiety and prove that I can't communicate. I can avoid relationship talk and I need not act happy as I already am. But I can't just snub her.
Deep down I know an anxious person is not for me and ultimately if she doesn't change I must leave. But let's assume that she is capable of change and I am strong enough and willing to put up with fending off her manipulations.
What do you all think? Thoughts? Comments?
If you have questions, just ask. One hundred percent transparent here. No avoidance.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
After separation and during the end of my transformation, I really came out of my emotional shell. I saw my partner in a new light. As a worthy person, whom I don't resent, and deserving of my full love that was always inside but never came out. It didn't matter that we separated. I started expressing myself and attempting affection (but to no avail). It started to look like we'd come around until she then pulled back.
It's good that you've made these changes, but I'd not think they are solidified just yet. Continue to work to make those positive changes part of the rest of your life.
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When she has a point, I even acknowledge it. Sometimes the arguments are just ridiculous and inside I just laugh. Gotta see the positive.
Awesome!
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But here is my point. I have to wonder, does the Last Resort Technique apply here? Could it ever? Does the LRT even make sense if the other is anxious? I've seriously thought of implementing this. I was already doing different things long before I even discovered LRT interestingly enough and LRT seems compelling enough to try.
LRT worked great for my situation, which is much different than yours. LRT gave me the space to calm down, relax, and breathe a little. It did the same for my spouse. Michele says the LRT is when your spouse says they want a divorce and they are serious. So I dunno, it's tough to say whether or not you should do this yet. Are you considering filing for divorce? Maybe this is the last resort before you file then.
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Seems to me "going dark" would only heighten the anxiety and prove that I can't communicate.
But, through her request of separation, hasn't she indicated that she doesn't want to communicate with you in that way?
Going dark means no communication, no contact whatsoever. I don't think you are there yet.
I came from a similar household where my father didn't allow people to feel free and open to be themselves and communicate in healthy ways. It takes a looonnnnggggg time to change that . Your W is used to interacting with you in a certain way. If you are changing that dynamic, she is going to have trouble adjusting - but she will adjust one way or the other. It takes a lot of time for her to figure this out. You need to be patient and not engage in fights. She may even try to change things back to how they were (probably not on purpose or consciously) b/c that is what she is familiar with. She is just used to that old dynamic.
Last edited by ovrrnbw; 06/11/1901:53 PM.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
However, before I finished my therapy, my wife initiated separation.
Please let us know you're basic info- ages of you, W and the kids, how long you were married, when was BD. How long do you feel you were neglecting her? She may have been done and planning her exit long before you started therapy.
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She always threatened this but this time she did it.
Going back how far? What did she cite as the reasons?
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However, I also felt cheated in that I wasn't given the opportunity to finish my transformation and subsequently rectify my contribution to separation.
This is the reason I'm asking for dates, if she's been enduring a decade or more of neglect and threatening to leave for that long, and you've just now started changing then I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect her to wait around to see what happens. Right now she has no reason to believe you will change, or that your changes will be permanent. She needs time to see and believe that.
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It didn't matter that we separated. I started expressing myself and attempting affection (but to no avail).
Of course it mattered that you had separated. The whole idea of separation is to give her time and space, and instead you were trying to smother her with affection. Try and imagine what that looked like to her. She probably hated it.
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Maybe I'm being perceived as trying too hard and being needy but from my point of view I'm acting on my feelings.
DB'ing is setting aside your own point of view and trying to see things from hers. And yes you are probably correct that you just looked needy, desperate and clingy to her.
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despite my situation, which I regard as the worst in my life, I'm actually the happiest I've ever been in my life. My kids are my reason to live, and I see them as my project to ensure they learn to have a healthy outlook on emotions.
Good! Keep moving in that direction.
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WIth this new revelation I can now stand my ground and no longer feel like sh$t. The corresponding anger and manipulation cycles with civility and almost the hope of being together. I'm always calm in these generated conflicts and confidently deflect all her tricks. When she has a point, I even acknowledge it. Sometimes the arguments are just ridiculous and inside I just laugh.
What do you mean by stand your ground and "deflect all her tricks"? Have you read Cadet's links, especially the one on validation? What are these "anger and manipulation cycles" you are referring to? Sounds like there's a lot about the dynamic between the two of you that you are brushing off. You need to become the master of keeping your cool, listening and validating.
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I could almost accept her silly tricks if I knew she was putting in an effort to change.
What do you think she needs to change? Sounds like you're the one that needs to change, and that your actions and inactions are responsible for the trauma to the M. What do you mean by "silly tricks"?
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Deep down I know an anxious person is not for me and ultimately if she doesn't change I must leave.
You started out accepting blame for things but you slowly transitioned to blaming her. Don't you think all those years of neglect and ignoring her needs may be what made her "anxious"?
Helpful replies, thank you. Some answer to questions:
I'm in the master bedroom; she is in spare. We've been together for 10 years, married for 9. I'm 44, she's 40. Kids 8 and 5 and both highly sensitive. I would have been neglectful to my wife probably from the point we moved in together. And the reason was that (and this is me looking back) she was and is emotionally abusive, what I refer to as tricks. This triggered my CEN so I just shutdown. Behavioural examples would be to move my things and argue that she needs space and that I'm too OCD. Or complain that I didn't do something properly, but she either never explained to me she liked it that way or change her position. Or to interrupt vulnerable conversations by reflecting the conversations back to her. The worst is that any negative feedback is already treated as an attack so full arguments and hurtful manipulation ensures. For sure my reactions only expounded her anxiety but I wouldn't say I created it. She has a few times admitted she is an anxious person.
Yes, she has been planning her exit. She told me as such. And about 4 years ago she started to say she will after any argument. A warning sign in hindsight but she always talks in extremes so I just ignored.
Yes, I've read about validation, and this is something I started doing about 8 months ago as part of my transformation. Not something I've done before since, well, I felt scared to speak up.
Yes, she picks fights, but less so since separation. But when she does pick a fight I spend a LOT of enegry to not be dragged down, to stay distant, and to stick to the situation. She loses steam and then typically ends the flight with "I just can't live with you". One a week ago was where my daughter came to me upset that wife wouldn't stop pushing her on a swing even when my daughter said stop. I just causually told my wife that the daughter was upset that you didn't stop when she said stop. Oh boy. A 30 minute tirade of excuses, complaints about the daughter, sarcasm, and blaming my daughter for "playing me". I also stopped her many times from bringing up the past. I told my wife that she is choosing to react this way and that she could have said "that's not what happened", "I'm sorry I'll talk to her", or "thank you". Two days later the same fight happens again. Which is odd. I know she felted shameful and did apologise to my daughter.
Just recently she started to avoid me and said point blank I phyiscally make her ill, and I'm a nice guy, but there is no chance of reconciliation. She said she dreds me coming home each day. But then I can say with confidence in a couple days time she will be happy that i'm looking after the kids. I just see this as the polarised extremes which I'm told anxious people have. I always tell her my love is unconditional and will stay that way regardless of how we end up.
In any event I see LRT is not appropriate here and that I should just keep spending time with kids and doing my own thing and give her space. I see that. I'm also coming to terms that what's probably best for me is not getting back together. Perhaps if I really am moving out or she does then LRT makes sense.
All advices are helpful, thank you. I don't mind the critisim because it puts things into perspective and helps me to understand how I contributed to things and what I can change.
Why are you considering moving out? She wants to separate then she should be the one to move.
"And the reason was that (and this is me looking back) she was and is emotionally abusive"
So if this is true then why are you not demanding she gets help OR you will D her? Toxic behavior should be a deal breaker unless the one behavingin a toxic manner is willing to recognize it and get help for it.
Have you read sandi's rules? You should, and institute them immediately.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Good points. Why do I feel I should move out? She should! Guess feeling a bit defeated at the moment. Actually this came up a month ago and I flatly refused even though her logic was sound. "You will be close to work" she said. I said I'd be crushed if I couldn't see my kids every day. Never came up again.
Not sure if I'm willing yet to bring up her seeking help. Maybe if things got better because it's certainly a boundary that can no longer be crossed.
Yeah, I've certainly messed up a few of Sandi's rules. I vow to start immediately, they are good advices. Feel energised to keep at it.
Want to thank you for pointing me to sandi's list. I stopped the behaviour that was deemed "needy" and I have to say I've noticed the difference. I also read someone on this forum who pointed out about being the first to end a conversation or to leave a room. I've adopted some of that too. And lastly, do something different. I love it and I have. I hate cooking but I forced myself. The validation was when the kids said it was better than Mum's. Different indeed!
I've noticed repeated attempts to bring up the future (without me of course) but I avoid all talk or just agree with her feelings. In any event I read the list every morning so I'm conscious of what I need to do.
In any event I love everyones advice here. Thank you so much for helping me push through. It's exhausting to continually plan my actions knowing it mightn't even work out. But there are always little signs I can see which gives hope.
