I'm not begging, pleading, or anything like that; I'm just hurting.
Of course you are! And she knows that, but just try to hold it together as best you can.
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I'd like some advice on how to address the actual S, because as I said in previous posts, I'm confused and we haven't discussed it much at all.
You don't have children, right? So that makes S a lot less complicated. Really all there is to resolve is what she is taking versus leaving, and how much you will pay her if you choose to do so. I asked my XW to make a list of everything she planned on taking so I could review it to see if I agreed with it all (note that I made her do all the legwork for S). Then we sat down together and reviewed the list and negotiated back and forth a bit. Remember what I said before, don't agree to anything you don't feel is fair just because you hope to appease her because there is no appeasing her right now.
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I don't however have a great understanding of her complaints (and thus not sure how to 180)
My XW never told me anything she wanted me to change, when we did MC she had no complaints about me, just said she didn't want to be married anymore. To this day she never has said much about it. But DB'ing gives you a lot of tips on 180's- listening and validating, controlling your anger, getting rid of NGS, getting out and GALing, etc. So focus on that.
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nor do I have an understanding of how she's approaching the S. Is this really about getting space to gain clarity, or is this just purgatory because we're too afraid to D?
Right now she's planning to D later, I don't think there's any question of that. But if you leave her alone and remove all pressure that may very well go on hold indefinitely.
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how much of this stuff is worth talking about?
Don't talk, just listen and validate. If you're asked questions then answer briefly. Try to keep the focus on W.
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I don't expect her to say "In n months, I'll know" but there has to be least some structure, right?
No, because anything she says right now no matter how permanent-sounding is simply a reflection of her current feelings. They will change in a year, or a month, or even in 5 minutes. That's why we call it "script" and "spew" and why Sandi says believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. She's acting emotionally right now and there's no making sense out of it.
I firmly believe that WAWs do not need their own place to find themselves or work on the MR. In fact, that is best done while staying in the marital home, IMHO. However, they need their own place to pursue other people. This is difficult to hear, I know. But unless you are an overbearing warlord, then the only thing she needs "freedom" for is to pursue, date and sleep with other people. All other freedom can be had while still cohabiting.
So do exactly as AS suggests. Focus on you. Become the best you you can be!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Don't talk, just listen and validate. If you're asked questions then answer briefly. Try to keep the focus on W.
This is smart - instead of framing it as "*I* need to understand how you're thinking about this", maybe it's instead "Help me understand how I can meet *your* needs for the S". I really do want to listen, because she holds her cards so close to the vest and I just don't have a read at all on her right now.
Oh, and I know there was some disagreement on this, but make yourself scarce on Friday. You are busy. Be out of the house until you know she is gone. This is HER move, not yours. I firmly stand against helping a WAW leave.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Oh, and I know there was some disagreement on this, but make yourself scarce on Friday. You are busy. Be out of the house until you know she is gone. This is HER move, not yours. I firmly stand against helping a WAW leave.
Yep, no worries. I haven't helped her with anything, other than donating some stuff that both had in the corner for awhile to go to Goodwill, and I sure as hell don't plan to now.
"I am not sure" "I have not thought about that" "I will have to think about that more before I can answer" "I need time to think about that" "yes" "no" "maybe" "possibly"
Other phrases that may help:
"I understand you feel that way" "I am sorry. I can't change the past" "I want us both to be happy"
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Mixed bag. I certainly let her lead the conversations and validated. She opened to me quite a bit about how she was thinking and got emotional. Unfortunately, so did I. Probably too much. It's really, really tough. The love of my life is leaving, and it's impossible for me not to get choked up when I think about things like our wedding day.
She's dead set on a separation agreement, which she is framing under the logic of "I want it out of the way so we can focus on the more important work, which is healing and understanding what we want." Sure, I can somewhat buy that. I did point back that it's basically a D, just without the file, to which she said she's not thinking about that right now, only what's in front of us.
There's a huge sticking point ahead of us though: she pointed out that when we were naive and in the throes of love, I had said that I viewed marriage as a partnership and everything gets split 50/50, and would be willing to get pre/post-nups as such. I honestly did not know at the time that the split is only for assets gained during the marriage - because why else would Anna Nicole Smith marry that old dude - and now I do. Of course, she is still expecting that and I just can't grant that with the level-headed clarity I have today. Without getting into unnecessary detail, I sold my company right before we got engaged (I know what you're thinking -- they're unrelated), one that I started before I even met her. This is going to be a huge fight, and I don't see how it's not going to destroy all chances of reconciliation.
S day is Friday. It's going to be a tough ride for the near future.
She wants half of your successes prior to the marriage...thinks she should be able to go to another man with half of your money...let that fuel your detachment.
My W thought she should get more than half. I stood firm on the legal advice I had gotten but didn't argue. You're putting yourself first from here out.
Don't give her that power over you.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
She's dead set on a separation agreement, which she is framing under the logic of "I want it out of the way so we can focus on the more important work, which is healing and understanding what we want." Sure, I can somewhat buy that. I did point back that it's basically a D, just without the file, to which she said she's not thinking about that right now, only what's in front of us.
Yes D is her goal for now, but she wants to dangle the carrot of hope out there so you'll be more compliant in the separation agreement.
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There's a huge sticking point ahead of us though: she pointed out that when we were naive and in the throes of love, I had said that I viewed marriage as a partnership and everything gets split 50/50, and would be willing to get pre/post-nups as such.
Oh I see, so let me get this straight, she wants to hold you to a statement you made all googly-eyed in love before marriage but she doesn't want to be held to statements that she made IN THE WEDDING TO GOD, FAMILY AND THE WORLD promising to love, honor and cherish until death do you part? Yeah, funny how WAS logic works. Look, what you said doesn't matter, it's not legally binding. Fight for what is yours. I fully believe in being fair in division of assets, but what is "fair" (and legal) is that any pre-M assets do not get split. Period.
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I honestly did not know at the time that the split is only for assets gained during the marriage
It doesn't matter, it wasn't a legally binding agreement. No lawyer or judge will think it was. She contributed nothing to whatever assets you accumulated before M.
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This is going to be a huge fight, and I don't see how it's not going to destroy all chances of reconciliation.
It won't be a huge fight because there's really nothing to fight about. Your L will laugh at the prospect that she would even attempt to go for pre-marital assets. That aside, you and others on this forum need to quit saying this statement- "XYZ will destroy all chances of reconciliation" because that is ridiculous. No one thing you did got you to this point and no one thing is going to fix it or ruin it. If you think fighting for what is yours (pre-marital assets, child custody, unfair child support and/ or alimony) is going to hurt your chances of a future with your W you are WRONG. If anything she will gain MORE respect for you when you stand up and fight for your rights instead of just being a wuss and giving her everything she wants.
Read this and live this- QUIT GIVING HER ALL THE POWER!!!!!
