[ozman]

Thanks guys

[Ready2Change]

All that stuff you sent me is opposite of how you guys tell me to act. I’m not supposed to be trying to seduce her right.

Seduction is different than pursing and being needy.



Right now, you should reflect on how you have behaved in the past and evaluate new ways of behaving as you move forward. Decide on who you want to be and become that guy.


My Sitch was over 10 years ago. I learned a lot. I did not win my W back, but I got my balls back. I have been with my lady for 9 years now raising a blended family. I have seen others attract their spouse back. I have seen the advice they were given. Each of us are different but there are patterns.

book No More Mr. Nice Guy.

This does not mean stop being nice. Keep being nice. Just don't be nice expecting something in return. Be nice because it is the right thing to do, because you want to. Read the book and you will understand.

[Rose888]

Ok guys. I just offered to start dinner. I was gonna go on a run but we are both hungry. She said “ well I’ll start cooking then”

Me “it’s ok you don’t have to cook by yourself”
Her “I’ve been cooking dinner by myself for the last 10 [censored] years”
Me “ well that was then, this is now”
Her “pfft and heavy eye roll”

Guys I’m not sure what to do. I’ve been a slob of a husband. I’ve emasculated myself due to childhood trauma and my insecurities . I haven’t handled my cancer like a man. I let her pay the bills. I was a farmer and worked farmer hours. My grandads divorced and so is my dad

This exchange confuses me. How did you offer to start dinner? Is there something about the way you asked that made her feel pressured to start cooking right then?

I don’t know how to put detachment into practice

For me, a key piece was recognizing when my head was making up stories and then deliberately telling myself something different.

For example, suppose my husband was very upset about something, but didn't want to talk about it.

Attached me: H is super upset. What did I do? Or not do? I bet he's online looking at apartments. This is it. He's going to tell me he's moving out. <imagines entire dialogue for the moving out conversation> I should go ask him if there is anything he needs me to do. Or ask him if he's mad at me. He'll feel better if he talks about it. <I end up as upset as my husband>

Detached me: H is super upset. What did I do? Or not do? I bet he's online looking at apartments . . . *Wait a minute* I have no idea what is going on or why he is upset. I've thought about the day and I'm not aware of anything I did or didn't do that would cause him to be upset. His life is about him, not me. I shouldn't freak out until I know something. I'm going to <go for a walk, or read to my kids, or work on my new hobby--learning new things is a great distraction at times like this--or clean a room in the house>. He'll come talk to me when he's ready.

Not only is detached me happier, she's also a better wife. It doesn't help H if I get upset everytime he is upset, and detached me is a much better listener when he is ready to talk.

You have to be vigilant about not mindreading or imagining. As soon as you realize that's what you're doing, change your thoughts.

[IHCLACS]

Ozman I'm with you you are not alone. I don't have a support system either. Its exhausting going back and forth between choosing to stay and choosing to go. Ignoring and doing your own thing and trying to reach out. Watching the person you knew of me thought you knew become distant, argumentative, withdrawn, anxious, depressed, and defensive at every little thing like an animal trapped in a cage, and you are helpless to do anything.
I've personally struggled trying it man's way and trying God's way. DBing and being Christ like in all this. Try looking at it this way. Maybe it will help keep the right frame of mind through all this? What if your marriage was under attack by Satan? What if everything your W told you about all of her negative feelings about you were lies? Were lies of the mind, were lies of her imagined and part factual feelings. What if you knew she wasn't emotionally strong enough to fight those lies? Would you still lie there helpless? Or would it help you stay strong and change, and fight the good fight, but without fighting with her. Its not over until you say its over. Or until she files. Lean into the suck. It will help you grow. Don't overly pursue, but you have to be strong in yourself. This mindset has been kind of working for me lately. Not really improving things, but a step in the right direction. When you talk to your W you have to speak with her as if you are speaking with a new date. Leave behind what failed as failed. Like a rebirth of you, a revival in a sense.
There are parts of you that are the same from long ago, and parts of you, you know you can be different. Use the hardships as fuel to change. That's all i got for now. If I think of anything ill add to it

[ozman]

Please everybody who has helped me, read this

First off. Thank you all

I am autistic. There. That is out of the way. I don’t know what you guys know about autism but it makes this sort of thing very hard. I can’t really pick up on people’s emotions very well. I don’t understand nuances. To me what someone says is what they mean. I can’t read between the lines. This is not something that I can learn. It’s just not there. My entire life has been do A B and C and get these results. That’s how autistic people work. It’s the only way they can

I also have always beat the odds. The 5 year survival rate for my cancer was 36 %. I’m still here 7 years later. I told myself I would beat the odds and I did. I never considered not winning

I can’t wrap my head around this not working out. My brain just refuses to do it.

You guys are amazing. You really are. But for the first time in my life I can’t seem to find the resolve. My heart is tearing out of my chest. When she looks at me with contempt and hatred in her eyes I want to die. This pain is so intense. It’s fierce and mean and evil. Cancer in my BRAIN is nothing compared to this. I have taken her for granted and I am reaping the rewards




I have done the lions share of the damage to our marriage. I have been lazy at home (never at work. I work extremely hard). When we have been in this position I just turn into Superman and it gets better in a couple days boom back to normal. It’s like this time though she wants it to not work. She wants me to fail. When I do good she gets angry about it
I know that if she tried one last time she could be so happy. But it’s like something in her broke and I can’t fix it. And on top of this unbearable pain it hurts even more to see her so miserable. I’m her man. I’m supposed to make everything better. But now I’m the source of her hurt. That’s like water hurting a plant that’s thirsty. I wish I could find the words to describe how I feel but I can’t. I feel so miserable that I have hurt her

[ozman]

And one last thing. This is a question I’ve been wanting to ask for a couple days

Should I apologize for all that I’ve done wrong to her? Apologize for all the pain I’ve caused? I want to just so she knows. But I don’t want to bring up the R.

Sigh




Also how do you stop a spiral

[SteveLW]

ozman, thanks for the additional information. That will help as we advise you and try to understand things from your viewpoint.

Yes, marital problems are some of the most difficult things we will ever go through. I've sometimes said "except for health problems". However, I think it ways it is worse than health problems. Losing a spouse via D is on par with losing them to death. The heartbreak and sense of loss can be very similar.

We realize you have some challenges. With your health, and condition, you are going to have to fight an uphill battle. You've admitted to not being a "man", I believe your word was emasculated. ozman, we've seen a lot of sitches come through here and there is one common theme running through theme. The WAW or WW wants an alpha male. I know you have challenges to that, but if you want to save your MR you are going to have to lay aside beta behavior and become an alpha male. Drop the NGS, and become an alpha male. Drop the weepy, sad, depressed guy, and become an alpha male.

For women, attraction follows respect. Gain her respect and you will reattract her. Does that mean you may have to do things that upset her? Yes. For instance, we are pretty clear that for LBHs with a cheating spouse, you should kick her out of the MBR. Most Ws don't like this, but it is a necessary step. She may be upset with you. She may even hate you. But she WILL respect you!

If by becoming "Superman" you mean become a maid, a servant, or a even a spineless guy, then stop being Superman. Become a He-man! Someone she can respect. As R2C said, always be nice, but stand up for yourself and be firm.

If she starts being mean to you in some way, say calmly but firmly; "I will not tolerate being spoken to that way." And then walkaway. Go to another room. Even leave entirely and go for a drive or a walk.

ozman, your goal is to earn her respect. We have a saying around here: it always gets worse before it gets better. So grow a backbone, don't tolerate disrespect. Be an alpha male!

[SteveLW]

As far as confronting her on a possible affair. Do you think if you say "Are you having an affair?" that she will come clean? One thing about WASs, and WSs in particular, is that they will lie even in the face of evidence! So no, do not ask her about it.

But remain vigilant. I've read a lot of books since my sitch, and one the books talked about a cheating W that didn't respect her H because he had no idea she was in an ongoing affair for over a year. "How could he be so dumb?" was her question.

So remain vigilant. Do her comings and goings make sense? In my sitch, my W would drive my daughter to school and she'd be gone for over an hour! My D's school was less than 10 minutes away. She'd sit in the school parking lot and communicate with her EA partner. (By the way, once I knew about the EA, when she got back home after an hour and half trip that should have taken about 25 minutes to drop of our daughter, I confronted her and told her "Do you think I am stupid?" That stuck with her. For a long time. It definitely earned her respect.

Be vigilant and aware. Take notes so you don't forget things. "On 6/25/2019 she went to the store and was gone for 3 hours. She returned home with a single bag of groceries." Write down everything that doesn't make sense or add up. If she uses a person as an excuse for an absence, talk to the person casually when you get a chance about the occasion. If your wife was gone Monday for unexplained trip, and said "I was at so-and-sos house." The next chance you get ask so-and-so, "so, what did you do Monday?" If they do not include your W in their explanation....write it down. You are gathering evidence.

Compare this list:

Signs Your Spouse Is Cheating
"I love you but I'm not in love with you." ...
"We are just friends." ...
A sudden need for privacy. ...
"I need some space to figure out my feelings." ...
Regular work habits change. ...
Spending a large amount of time on the computer. ...
Secretive phone calls and more time spent on the phone. ...
Behavior that just doesn't add up.

Once you have concrete evidence then you can confront her. Not until. And only confront once you are ready to take action: kicker her out of the MBR, etc.

[SteveLW]

And one last thing. This is a question I’ve been wanting to ask for a couple days

Should I apologize for all that I’ve done wrong to her? Apologize for all the pain I’ve caused? I want to just so she knows. But I don’t want to bring up the R.

Sigh

Have you apologized for this before?

[unchien]

ozman -

Breathe.

"To me what someone says is what they mean" - You have to fight this thought right now. It is not helpful. When she expresses extreme hurt, you can empathize and see truth in what she says, without accepting it as your reality. It is not 100% your fault.

Re: apologizing - Beware this urge. Words are basically meaningless when situations reach this point. Also, the urge will be to just say "I'm sorry it's all my fault." You sound like you are beating yourself up, saying things are all your fault, etc. This is never true, and also blocks you from really understanding the role you played and how you might be able to change the underlying behaviors and attitudes that have driven you to act in ways that hurt your W.

I felt like I was spiraling a lot the last few months.

Things that didn't help:
- Trying to resolve the emotion by talking, texting, writing letters, or really doing anything at all.
- Ruminating on my MR.
- Spending too much time on the DB forums posting and reading (!)
- Overly reaching out to friends, etc.

Things that did help:
- Do nothing.
- Do something, anything (go for a walk, watch TV, anything that is a distraction).
- Sit with the emotion. Observe how it felt like I was going to pass out or have a heart attack. Know that it will pass in 30-45 minutes. This taught me emotional awareness -- observe, without reacting.
- Meditate (only works when my mind is relatively calm).
- Practice gratitude. Think about the positive things in your life. This one is hard b/c I always heard that advice, and never could really implement this. One day it just clicked.
- Detaching. Exploring the alternatives of what may happen, and understanding in all cases it is on me to create my own happiness.