Persistent Endurance (Part 4)

[IHCLACS]

I completely understand if you have sentiment torwards a helpless horse who didn't asked to be involved with all this. I say offer her three choices with a deadline. Either W finds a stable/area for her horse by xxx date, she pays you nominal rent for horse at your place, or you sell horse to a neighboring farm.

If love is conditional, if marriage is contractual, then actions should have consequences.

[AnotherStander]

However, W is WW as ever with her multiple A partners. She is now cycling between OM1 (EA/possible PA co-worker), OM2 (PA 25 year old pickup artist), and OM3 (PA dirtbag that verbally abuses her based on texts I’ve seen) all within the span of a couple weeks. These sexual predators are attacking on all fronts and her vulnerability/desires can’t fight them off. Full blown GGW with divorced BFF by her side to support and promote her new lifestyle. She fails to see the harm that her choices will cause to our children. Selfishness, it’s all about her.

Well she's certainly poising herself to hit rock bottom in a big way.

I’m afraid I’ve reached the end of my timeline in limbo. I want off this roller coaster.

I can certainly understand that. But the advice I always offer on this is take a couple of months to make sure it's what you want before you pursue D. If you go back and forth constantly during that 2 months then you're not ready. But if you tell yourself every day for 2 months that you are done and ready for D, and you don't feel any strong emotions over it, then you are ready.

I’m still willing to R, only if the A’s end. It’s time for me to make a final stand. She may or may not feel a crisis, but it will be her choice to make.

If you plan on an ultimatum (quit the affairs or I will file for D) then my suggestion would be not to. If you are convinced you want a D then go ahead and file. THAT will be the ultimatum and much, MUCH more of a wake up call then verbally giving her an ultimatum. What is the difference between the two, well if you file then you really are done. If you're giving her an ultimatum then frankly that tells me you are NOT ready for D and are just trying to get a response out of her.

My expectations are near zero and I’m willing to try almost anything.

See that's what I mean- "try almost anything." Divorce is not a marriage-saving technique. Divorce is you ending things because you are DONE. Period.

[SteveLW]

Listen to AS. Do not give her an ultimatum, unless you are okay with being D'd. Do not file for D unless you are okay with being D'd.

Many LBSs have tried the "I'll file for D, or make her choose" and then are devastated when they are D'd. So make sure it is really really what you want. And yes, do not talk about it, just go file. You might get lucky in that getting served papers will wake her up. Probably no though so do not have near zero expectations. Have ZERO expectations. As in, when you file for D realize that you are going to be D'd.

Finally curtis, earn your way out of this MR. Make sure you are in IC and working on yourself. Do not carry unresolved emotional baggage into your next R.

[curtis7]

My question was about the horse.. Can she not keep it elsewhere.. In my personal sitch, everything changed for the better once my WW was gone from the home and contact was minimal ( ie collecting the children ) . Really helps in detachment... It is probably not that simple until Divorce etc, but again if she persists down this route, do you really want to be keeping her horse / seeing her daily if / when she finally moves in with one of these guys. It does seem like cake eating extreme..

She stated in her financial disclosure/ asset split email in early May that she would start looking for a place to keep her horse, but would not move it until her name was no longer on our property. It does make it more difficult to detach when she comes around daily. Then she is texting and taking pictures of herself and the horse to send to her OM while on our property. I try to be away from home GAL when she comes over or busy working on projects so I don’t have to witness the shenanigans. It certainly is extreme cake eating. If D is pursued, the horse is gone and will not be staying at my place.

I completely understand if you have sentiment torwards a helpless horse who didn't asked to be involved with all this. I say offer her three choices with a deadline. Either W finds a stable/area for her horse by xxx date, she pays you nominal rent for horse at your place, or you sell horse to a neighboring farm.

If love is conditional, if marriage is contractual, then actions should have consequences.

Horse arrangements are a consideration in the plan as my sitch plays out. I’m not vindictive to sell her horse, but will urge her to take it away if the D process begins.

I doubt she has felt much in the way of consequences for her actions so far other than logistical inconveniences of driving 10 minutes each way to shuffle kids and care for the horse.

[curtis7]

Well she's certainly poising herself to hit rock bottom in a big way.

Perhaps...the lies, deceit, and manipulation must be very stressful for her to keep up. Must be worth it to her for the emotional highs, thrills, and excitement of getting the attention and being pursued by these OM. Guilt and shame has been suppressed for some time.

I can certainly understand that. But the advice I always offer on this is take a couple of months to make sure it's what you want before you pursue D. If you go back and forth constantly during that 2 months then you're not ready. But if you tell yourself every day for 2 months that you are done and ready for D, and you don't feel any strong emotions over it, then you are ready.

2 months from now would put me right around our 15 year anniversary, how fitting. I hear what you’re saying, and don’t want to make a rash decision on D as it will affect the rest of my life. It’s not in the first few steps I’m considering.

I’m still willing to R, only if the A’s end. It’s time for me to make a final stand. She may or may not feel a crisis, but it will be her choice to make.

If you plan on an ultimatum (quit the affairs or I will file for D) then my suggestion would be not to. If you are convinced you want a D then go ahead and file. THAT will be the ultimatum and much, MUCH more of a wake up call then verbally giving her an ultimatum. What is the difference between the two, well if you file then you really are done. If you're giving her an ultimatum then frankly that tells me you are NOT ready for D and are just trying to get a response out of her.

One of my goals now is to bust the affairs. If those efforts are ineffective, then I will accept the consequences, including D. Maybe we table this until I lay out my options so you have a better idea of the sequence I’m intending to follow.

See that's what I mean- "try almost anything." Divorce is not a marriage-saving technique. Divorce is you ending things because you are DONE. Period.

I say try almost anything based on the following (which I’m in agreement with) from MWD: “When you have children, you owe it to them to leave absolutely no stone unturned if you are considering dissolving your marriage. Once a marriage dissolves, so too, does the family... forever... Once you choose to bring children into the world, divorce isn't a solution to an unhappy marriage. Fixing it is.“

Also, that I can see a future where her and I build a new marriage that satisfies each other’s wants and needs if we can get past this hurdle.

[curtis7]

And yes, do not talk about it, just go file. You might get lucky in that getting served papers will wake her up. Probably not though so do not have near zero expectations. Have ZERO expectations. As in, when you file for D realize that you are going to be D'd.

Finally curtis, earn your way out of this MR. Make sure you are in IC and working on yourself. Do not carry unresolved emotional baggage into your next R.

I agree in having ZERO expectations when filing. However, I feel LBS need some expectations, albeit extremely low, when DBing, otherwise there can be no hope.

Great advice on earning my way out. I’m not ready to walk away without knowing I’ve tried everything and prepared myself emotionally to move on.

[curtis7]

I've been really tired lately. Red-eye flight over the weekend and time change from Pacific to Eastern time zone hasn't helped. I need to clear my head and get some rest and avoid any irrational decisions. I've been keeping up with staying busy since she moved out. Going to church, playing volleyball a few times a week, coaching youth baseball, and going to the gym. Weight has finally stabilized around 159 lbs. Fairly healthy weight for my body type (5'9"), very tone, fit, muscular, and little body fat. Weighed 171 lbs at time of BD, lost 20lbs and fell to 151 lbs during PTSD episode (early November 2018 BD to end of February 2019 recovery). Have steadily regained weight over the past few months since WW moved out.

I'm having a hard time drafting the post on the options I'm considering going forward. I have them all identified, but I want to elaborate on them sufficiently to give everyone a good understanding of my thought process. For some reason, I just don't have the motivation to put it all together right now. I still plan to get it out there...a few more days.

I recently stated that I'm ready to pursue these next steps, but I've had some time to re-evaluate and I think that could have been an emotional response to recent events. Some of the best advice I've received is to wait at least 24 hours to take any action with regards to decisions made in response to emotional triggers. This board is a better place to vent and vet thoughts and ideas before taking action.

I returned from the California trip with my kids and was on cloud 9 after spending a week and a half with them. Even though it would have been wonderful for W to be with us on the trip and I thought about this daily, I felt that my life was still great without her. Then, kids were with W for two nights over the weekend and I experienced loss and loneliness again. When kids were back with me Sunday night, my S8 said a few things that set me off. First, he said that mom is texting all the time when they are at her separation house. I can't stand them being neglected and plopped down in front of the TV when she is in smartphone fantasyland. He also told me the name of OM3. I did some research on him after downloading a free pseudo-background check app. Turns out he has a court record from a few years ago for domestic violence against a female. This made me concerned about the safety of my W and children. I'm debating whether to let WW know, but she has always told me that she's a big girl and can take care of herself. Second, my S8 said he hopes that mom isn't telling people at work that she is single. Finally, S8 said "I don't want to have two dads." This flooded me with sadness and emotion. I had to hide my tears from him. I felt so sorry for what my kids are going through. I wanted so badly to be with the kids everyday going forward and the only way to obtain that is for her to return to the MR. If she refuses, then I'm no worse off as it pertains to my time with the kids than I am right now. So, I decided this is the time to take action and find out the fate of my family. Thus, my post about being done living in limbo.

WW has been more friendly this month. A few days before leaving on the California trip with the kids, she invited me in to her separation house to see some of the renovation projects she is working on. I showed mild interest and merely expressed that I'm happy for her. Then, the night before leaving on the trip the kids were going to stay with me and she wanted to see them. We went over to her house and stayed for almost 2 hours. Most of the time she was chit-chatting with me about the trip, her work, horses, divorced BFF getting stood up again on by a guy on the dating app (has happened to her several times apparently), and also that W decided to de-activate her Facebook profile (probably didn't want her OM to see all of the family pics). I validated and stayed positive but somewhat distant.

Upon returning from the vacation, she asked about the trip the first night when picking up the kids. Then went on to tell me about interaction she had with one of our neighbors that has been helping her train her horse. He is in his 50's, married, but a player. She told me that he was hitting on her and making insinuating comments...not the first time. She knows that he cheats on his wife all the time and told me that she can handle it. She said she told him that "he is married" and that "she is married...still." I don't know how to interpret her saying being married...still. I just looked at her and thought to myself what kind of alien monster are you? How hypocritical to call out this guy, when you've been cheating on me for over 6 months while married.

Over the past few days, small talk has continued. Topics were again on the trip, renovation projects at her house, horses, frustrations at her work. Validation, positivity, and light humor were my responses.

I do have a hypothetical question. In the case of physical separation, how is the LBS to know when the A is over without spying/snooping? Is it ever acceptable to ask the WAS if they are still in contact with the AP? Or is it better to wait until if/when they finally feel remorse and initiate on their own?

I still assume the increased friendly interaction is continued selfish cake eating for her horse and parenting availability to enable her A's with no consequences.

[ovrrnbw]

My advice is to not use the word "separated". It's a word used by weak people to justify affairs bc they're too weak to keep their vows, file for D, or wait until D is final. And to answer your question, you aren't to know when the affair is over bc she is no longer yours to worry about. It's better to not ask about the affairs ever again unless she's kicking down the door trying to reconcile.

Get rid of the horse somehow, it's holding you back. And cut out the small talk, it means nothing. You seem to be pretty available to her when you should be busy doing things and not have time for her. In case you've forgotten, she is choosing others over you so why are you showing her that you'll keep coming around? What do those actions say to her?

[LH19]

C,

I think you know the answer to your hypothetical question. Plus you have to remember that even if the affairs end that doesn’t mean anything has changed.

I am curious to read about your options that you’re going to lay out. I hope tough love is one of them because that is IMO the only way to handle your extremely WW wife.

I am really sorry you and your kids are going through this and am glad you had a great time on your trip.

[MrBrside]

Curtis,

I replied to your post in my thread.. I have thought from your intial posts, that out sitchs are very similar ( as are a lot on here to be fair ) - but you still seem to be stuck in limbo IMO..

If you read Sandis post ( For Newcomer LBH with a wayward ) on Cadets list, she quotes

She has to suffer some type of loss (due to her decisions) in order to shake her from her fantasy fogC,

and as LH19 says, even if this ends the affair, it may not result in your R surviving..

Your WW has suffered no loss and looks like she doesnt care anyway. She is cake eating to the extreme and rolling over all in her path - You, your children, the men in her life.. She doesnt care.

These factors have probably resulted in even less respect for you. ( has she has shown ) - sorry to be blunt.

my S8 said a few things that set me off. First, he said that mom is texting all the time when they are at her separation house. I can't stand them being neglected and plopped down in front of the TV when she is in smartphone fantasyland. He also told me the name of OM3. I did some research on him after downloading a free pseudo-background check app. Turns out he has a court record from a few years ago for domestic violence against a female. This made me concerned about the safety of my W and children. I'm debating whether to let WW know, but she has always told me that she's a big girl and can take care of herself. Second,

One of the vets on here posted recently that the site members are often logical and rational.

Your WW isnt thinking like that - her life / decissions and choices are 100% emotional. There is no logic to it. In your world 5 +5 =10. In her emotional state, anything goes and 5 + 5 will never equal 10.. Again, Sandi highlights this in her Newcomer post. Your WW probably wont care that OM3 has a record... Look at the media.. People fall for people with bad reputation and a violent past all the time. Convicted fellon Jeremy Meeks ended up with a billionairs daughter !!! I'm sure she wasnt thinking with logic when she jumped into bed with him, or bothered he had done time for assault.
Any decent father would worry about their children, but your WW wont appriciate you chipping it - you cant control it.

As for why - google "affair down" or "why do they affair down"... Affairing down is common.. Your WW isnt looking for a provider / nice guy.. She had it all but went WW... She now wants a lover... Regardless of the damage.