Persistent Endurance (Part 4)

[AnotherStander]

One of my goals now is to bust the affairs. If those efforts are ineffective, then I will accept the consequences, including D.

I'm curious what you think you will gain by busting the affairs? I think most LBS's are hoping it moves them from Plan B status to Plan A, but it never, ever does. It just creates a lot of resentment in the WAS, and usually the A will continue but go even deeper undercover (their attitude usually becomes "it's us against the world"). The thing is, she's separated and most WAS's don't consider it an "affair" after separation, to them they're just moving on to a new R. They think they're only "married" in the sense that some pesky piece of paper filed somewhere says so. I know you don't agree with that but that's her point of view right now.

I say try almost anything based on the following (which I’m in agreement with) from MWD: “When you have children, you owe it to them to leave absolutely no stone unturned if you are considering dissolving your marriage. Once a marriage dissolves, so too, does the family... forever... Once you choose to bring children into the world, divorce isn't a solution to an unhappy marriage. Fixing it is.“

And I completely agree with that, but what I'm saying is threatening D or filing for D is NOT recommended by Michele or these forums as a way to "save" your M. That's kind of like cutting off your leg because you stubbed your toe and it hurts and you want to make it stop.

I've been keeping up with staying busy since she moved out. Going to church, playing volleyball a few times a week, coaching youth baseball, and going to the gym. Weight has finally stabilized around 159 lbs. Fairly healthy weight for my body type (5'9"), very tone, fit, muscular, and little body fat.

Excellent! Keep that up!

I recently stated that I'm ready to pursue these next steps, but I've had some time to re-evaluate and I think that could have been an emotional response to recent events. Some of the best advice I've received is to wait at least 24 hours to take any action with regards to decisions made in response to emotional triggers.

The one thing you have is plenty of time. There's no need to rush anything. When in doubt then take more time for yourself.

I do have a hypothetical question. In the case of physical separation, how is the LBS to know when the A is over without spying/snooping? Is it ever acceptable to ask the WAS if they are still in contact with the AP? Or is it better to wait until if/when they finally feel remorse and initiate on their own?

She more than likely considers it none of your business since you are separated. Asking is basically temp checking her and the advice is not to do it. She probably won't give you a truthful answer anyway.

[curtis7]

Venting...

W texts me today: “Maybe one on one time would be good with D4. I was gonna suggest at some point we do that. Where S8 and I do something, and you and D4 do something. Because usually the other way around...my sister does that.”

Well, SIL is not a WAW and didn’t choose to rip her family apart where each parent only has the kids half time. Trial D, as WW called this, is not conducive to one on one time with the kids for each parent. That’s not how 50/50 custody works in D, kids travel together.

I have not responded.

[LH19]

C,

I think it’s a good idea. I enjoy one on one time with my kids. Schedule it on her time so you get extra time with kids.

[curtis7]

LH, good advice. I like time with my kids as well, together or one on one. If/when she brings it up again I'll be sure it's on her days with the kids.

[curtis7]

I was reflecting on my entire sitch over the past few days so I went back and read all of my cliff notes from the relationship/self-help books I've read since BD. Specifically, I re-read my DR notes and reviewed the initial list of marriage goals that I set in mid-December.

Here is the list:

1) I want her to be back with me by the end of January, building emotional desire, and finding lost feelings of love.
2) I want her to spend time with me and work on activities and projects together.
3) I want her to reconnect and experience her sexual fantasies with me.
4) I want to take her on dates.
5) I want us to talk about our future plans and goals together so we can have a shared vision and purpose.
6) I want her to call or text me occasionally to see how I'm doing and feeling.
7) I want her to feel comfortable around me to initiate conversation.
8) I want to have faith and trust in her again.

Now, over 6 months later, I realize none of these goals have been met and I can't say much progress has been made towards any of them. Maybe #7, but that's mostly neighborly small talk.

In retrospect, I need to assign a more realistic timeline to each of these goals and keep asking myself if what I'm doing is bringing me closer towards or farther from success. Early on after BD, I never imagined my sitch would play out the way it has and I was more optimistic that she would return to the MR more quickly. However, this is a marathon, not a sprint. At that time, I never appreciated the power of a limerant affair on a person and how irrational and selfish the thoughts of a WW could be.

I have concluded that: 1) I had very lofty expectations, 2) am very bad at DB, and/or 3) she has truly moved on and there is no hope that will ever change. I prefer to accept a combination of #1 and #2 as I still have hope.

Most of these are big goals and almost none of them are achievable while she is in an active A. I don't want to lose sight of these goals, but perhaps I should think small. As MWD writes: "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Michelle writes about taking stock, if things are better, but not quite there yet, re-visit positively-stated, action-oriented, and doable goals to achieve in the next few weeks.

I do feel DB has helped reduce some of the anger WW had towards me. GAL, Validation, Acting As If, 180s, Time and Space seem to have helped in that respect. I just don't see the possibility in meeting any significant marriage goals while the A continues...patience is paramount right now.

[neffer]

Why don´t you make a list of your goals? Things that depens only on you.

Be strong there Curtis

[HrtHsbnd]

I don’t know how you guys do it. If my wife were in an active affair, I would do everything I could to get evidence and expose that for what it was.

Good luck to you!

I was reflecting on my entire sitch over the past few days so I went back and read all of my cliff notes from the relationship/self-help books I've read since BD. Specifically, I re-read my DR notes and reviewed the initial list of marriage goals that I set in mid-December.

Here is the list:

1) I want her to be back with me by the end of January, building emotional desire, and finding lost feelings of love.
2) I want her to spend time with me and work on activities and projects together.
3) I want her to reconnect and experience her sexual fantasies with me.
4) I want to take her on dates.
5) I want us to talk about our future plans and goals together so we can have a shared vision and purpose.
6) I want her to call or text me occasionally to see how I'm doing and feeling.
7) I want her to feel comfortable around me to initiate conversation.
8) I want to have faith and trust in her again.

Now, over 6 months later, I realize none of these goals have been met and I can't say much progress has been made towards any of them. Maybe #7, but that's mostly neighborly small talk.

In retrospect, I need to assign a more realistic timeline to each of these goals and keep asking myself if what I'm doing is bringing me closer towards or farther from success. Early on after BD, I never imagined my sitch would play out the way it has and I was more optimistic that she would return to the MR more quickly. However, this is a marathon, not a sprint. At that time, I never appreciated the power of a limerant affair on a person and how irrational and selfish the thoughts of a WW could be.

I have concluded that: 1) I had very lofty expectations, 2) am very bad at DB, and/or 3) she has truly moved on and there is no hope that will ever change. I prefer to accept a combination of #1 and #2 as I still have hope.

Most of these are big goals and almost none of them are achievable while she is in an active A. I don't want to lose sight of these goals, but perhaps I should think small. As MWD writes: "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Michelle writes about taking stock, if things are better, but not quite there yet, re-visit positively-stated, action-oriented, and doable goals to achieve in the next few weeks.

I do feel DB has helped reduce some of the anger WW had towards me. GAL, Validation, Acting As If, 180s, Time and Space seem to have helped in that respect. I just don't see the possibility in meeting any significant marriage goals while the A continues...patience is paramount right now.

[curtis7]

I don’t know how you guys do it. If my wife were in an active affair, I would do everything I could to get evidence and expose that for what it was.

Hurt, I’ve got all the evidence anyone would need. The question to ask is what good is it. Exposure will shame them, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll wake up and return to the MR. It also makes the path home significantly more difficult. I used to have a different opinion on spying/snooping in that it was helpful to gather intel. Now, I feel differently b/c every time I find evidence of her cheating it triggers negative and painful emotional responses. It makes me question whether standing for my MR is the right choice. Not good for my psyche nor DBing. I have become more and more numb to her WW and cheating with each discovery. It really makes you think why stay in a R with a person that could betray and hurt you this bad.

[MrBrside]

Hi Curtis,

I was exactly where you are until the 4th March - even after all the attempts at DB, its hard - i was still checking the phone etc. She put the nail in the coffin with some comments about my Grandad, and that was it for me. It was the cruelest, but best thing she ever said.. In terms of your sitch, your summary above shows you really need to detach or else it will eat you up. Your WW is showing zero respect for you. Your children also see this. Take back your self respect, and they will respect you as well for being strong. Even in 3, 5 , 10 years.. They will know you gave it 100% for six months. Do you really want to be where you are now in another 6 months?

Your WW is being led by her emotions for her own selfish gratification. She is cake eating, showing zero respect and neglecting your children.

Like i mentioned before, she has lost nothing, or doesnt care about that she has lost.. And she doesnt care about hurting you. At some point, you really need to consider yourself. Your children know you tried and tried. But they will also respect your for walking away.

[ovrrnbw]

Curtis,

have you read a lot of the old threads about affair busting? If not, I'd recommend it. IMO you've waited too long to bust the affair. She's moved out. In most people's mind, y'all are separated and she's free to do what she wants. So this affair busting attempt comes off as a controlling, weak attempt to force her back to you. Yet every time she yanks your chain you are there. She comes and goes at your place as she pleases because of.......*drumroll please*...... a horse.

Forget. That. Horse.

And why do you keep going an hunting down evidence about all the OM? What has that accomplished? Seriously, what has that done to help your sitch?

You eat crap on a daily basis and then go looking for more. Why? Move on.

I just don't see the possibility in meeting any significant marriage goals while the A continues...patience is paramount right now.

Well yea! Anyone could say that. So if you're choice is to wait it out you need to at least PRETEND like you are moving on with life. Get rid of the horse, set a parenting schedule AND stick to it, and then stop talking to her outside of children's logistics. Eliminate all unnecessary conversation. You're trying to keep in touch and keep her coming around the house b/c you think it will get her back.