Good stuff here! SteveS, the trick for the LBS is always finding the right balance. But ovr gave you some great things to think about. Your W is gone. There is a new woman in her place. You need to treat it as such.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Just checking back in. Feeling lonely tonight so I thought I'd give an update..which is to say there's no update at all to give, really.
No contact with the WAW, other than at MC, which we attend every other week and terse, logistics-oriented texts. I wish I could say I didn't miss her, but I do, very much. Some days are better than others - today was a bit tougher because the weather forced me indoors, canceling a softball game and making it difficult to head to the gym as well. I've also been trying not to shortcut the healing process through dating or flirting with women I meet through the apps, so it's generally been a quiet day with a lot of time to think and feel lonely.
Generally, GAL is going fine; working out, playing sports, hanging out with friends, and so on. Today is just tough. Maybe tomorrow will be better. One more into the S and I'm overall feeling more like myself but, yeah, today is tough. I guess that's to be expected.
Just typing out what I'm feeling, I feel very powerless right now. So much in my life I've achieved through hard work and ambition, setting out to do something and working my butt off to do it. I wanted to start a company, so I did. I wanted to move to NYC, so I did. But I've got no agency at all here. And I get it, that's a part of the lesson: you can't control what other people do, and certainly any pressure or urgency I apply here will take me ten steps backward in the other direction.
I know all of this, but today is tough. I don't know at all how this ever convert to a chance to reconcile. I guess I just work on myself, be the best version of myself I can be, and hope that at some point, that opportunity will arise. It just seems like such a pipe dream right now, when we go a week or more without any interaction, and I (perhaps pessimistically) have no real reason to think that she misses me.
Steve - Man this post resonates with my day as well.
The ambition can make this harder. I'm also attacking GAL like a maniac - at first it felt great, but now 3 weeks in there are days where it all feels kind of empty. Work, gym, hobby, friends, repeat. I've been throwing in some guided meditation apps which helps. The ambition can lead to burnout. Ambition is great in work, school, etc. - you work hard, you achieve. That's not how it works in relationships, in particular these cases.
One other idea is make sure you have an indoor hobby or something when you are home alone. I have a little project going, watch YouTube videos about it, etc. It can eat up endless amounts of time and tickles the part of my brain that seeks achievement and learning.
What are you covering in MC? I'm just curious. I'm in the same boat - MC once every 1-2 weeks, and terse logistics-oriented texts (in my case surrounding the kids primarily). We have a once weekly phone chat to cover logistics only. MC feels completely aimless - we are working on "communication" which helps with the co-parenting and logistics but addresses none of the actual, ya know, MR. I think human brains are wired for survival - lately my conclusion is that everything I learn in MC can be applied to my next relationship, whether that is with my W or someone else - but maybe that is my brain desperately trying to put a positive spin on things. I definitely don't understand how my path is leading to reconciliation either, but I can tell I'm growing as a person and a father and that's enough for me most days.
I imagine healing just takes a really really long time. I would say I'm sure there is a part of her that misses you, but that is beside the point. If and when she misses you enough, you will know.
Steve - Man this post resonates with my day as well.
The ambition can make this harder. I'm also attacking GAL like a maniac - at first it felt great, but now 3 weeks in there are days where it all feels kind of empty. Work, gym, hobby, friends, repeat. I've been throwing in some guided meditation apps which helps. The ambition can lead to burnout. Ambition is great in work, school, etc. - you work hard, you achieve. That's not how it works in relationships, in particular these cases.
One other idea is make sure you have an indoor hobby or something when you are home alone. I have a little project going, watch YouTube videos about it, etc. It can eat up endless amounts of time and tickles the part of my brain that seeks achievement and learning.
What are you covering in MC? I'm just curious. I'm in the same boat - MC once every 1-2 weeks, and terse logistics-oriented texts (in my case surrounding the kids primarily). We have a once weekly phone chat to cover logistics only. MC feels completely aimless - we are working on "communication" which helps with the co-parenting and logistics but addresses none of the actual, ya know, MR. I think human brains are wired for survival - lately my conclusion is that everything I learn in MC can be applied to my next relationship, whether that is with my W or someone else - but maybe that is my brain desperately trying to put a positive spin on things. I definitely don't understand how my path is leading to reconciliation either, but I can tell I'm growing as a person and a father and that's enough for me most days.
I imagine healing just takes a really really long time. I would say I'm sure there is a part of her that misses you, but that is beside the point. If and when she misses you enough, you will know.
Sorry you're going through it too - it really [censored]. I'm glad there's a safe space to talk about it though.
It definitely does feel a bit empty, but I wonder if that feeling of emptiness is because we're doing the GAL for the wrong reasons. We're doing it because we want to be a more attractive partner for our WAW, as opposed to doing it for oureslves, and it feels empty because we have no pathway to show that effort. I know these things are the "right" thing for me to be doing, but it definitely just feels like I'm doing them right now to check off a to-do list.
In MC, part of it is just checking in to see how we're emotionally doing w/r/t the separation, and the other part of it is identifying areas that we weren't clicking, then facilitating an understanding of how we both can better approach it moving forward. It's been helpful, but also frustrating because there's no way to go and enact those better behaviors. I know at least personally in MC before the separation, I struck way, way too much of a defensive tone and wasn't going into it with the right mentality - a huge regret in hindsight.
I think maybe I'm (and we're) just feeling a bit blue. I talked a close friend I can be open with last night, and his response was akin to "Of course she misses you - you were the most important person in her life for seven years, you built a life together, she loved you enough to marry you, and she cares about you enough to separate and not divorce, to go to MC as opposed to given up, etc." and that was helpful. It'd be great to hear her say it and have that reassurance, but that's unlikely.
One thing that she did say in MC is that out of all the thoughts that make her sad, the one thing that really, really upsets her is the idea of us having no relationship at all, if I was just out of her life completely. I immediately wondered if that puts me into a bucket where she only views on future relationship of ours as a platonic friend, but it was nice to hear, as small of a carrot as it was.
I feel for you , but now is the time to be strong . Make some time to do something you always wanted to do but couldn’t as you were married . Something exciting and a little crazy . You ever ridden in a rodeo ? Learnt to surf ? Scuba parachute jump ? Spent a weekend wild in the woods ? Get that sadness out , she can smell it on you . It isn’t attractive and she won’t be able to deal with it in a productive way for you . Give it a try , see what happens. Sorry babe , can’t make this week coz I’m ?!?!?!?
It definitely does feel a bit empty, but I wonder if that feeling of emptiness is because we're doing the GAL for the wrong reasons. We're doing it because we want to be a more attractive partner for our WAW, as opposed to doing it for oureslves, and it feels empty because we have no pathway to show that effort. I know these things are the "right" thing for me to be doing, but it definitely just feels like I'm doing them right now to check off a to-do list.
I think this is completely normal. Fake it til you make it. Sometimes I GAL and feel like a warrior, sometimes I feel like a lifeless robot.
Originally Posted by SteveS
In MC, part of it is just checking in to see how we're emotionally doing w/r/t the separation, and the other part of it is identifying areas that we weren't clicking, then facilitating an understanding of how we both can better approach it moving forward. It's been helpful, but also frustrating because there's no way to go and enact those better behaviors. I know at least personally in MC before the separation, I struck way, way too much of a defensive tone and wasn't going into it with the right mentality - a huge regret in hindsight.
It's great you are learning about yourself and better ways to handle future relationships (whether with your W or somebody new). It sounds like you have the same aimlessness that I do in my sitch. You don't even know what your W is hoping to get out of it. I would venture to guess even she doesn't know, but it will likely end up (based on what the vets here say) as another checkbox she can tick off to say she tried, to ease her guilt.
That makes it sound like she is harsh and cold, and that's not what I am implying. But I think "Separation + MC" without clear steps to working on the MR is basically a "soft divorce". If you see it any other way, you are setting yourself up for more pain. As you mentioned, there are no ways for you to apply the learnings.
I don't know - maybe someone here has had a sitch where MC during separation actually saved their MR. I haven't read one yet, but people come and go on the forums.
Originally Posted by SteveS
I think maybe I'm (and we're) just feeling a bit blue. I talked a close friend I can be open with last night, and his response was akin to "Of course she misses you - you were the most important person in her life for seven years, you built a life together, she loved you enough to marry you, and she cares about you enough to separate and not divorce, to go to MC as opposed to given up, etc." and that was helpful. It'd be great to hear her say it and have that reassurance, but that's unlikely.
Of course she still cares for you. She also fired you as her H (okay, put you on permanent administrative leave, whatever). I have a really positive friend who says these kinds of things to me -- it feeds into my desire for things to work out, but he has been mostly wrong every step of the way the last 3 months.
The best I can say is that S+MC is another form of limbo, you don't know what's going to happen, treat it as such. Don't look to your W for signals. Seeking reassurance is a sign that you should work on detachment.
Originally Posted by SteveS
One thing that she did say in MC is that out of all the thoughts that make her sad, the one thing that really, really upsets her is the idea of us having no relationship at all, if I was just out of her life completely. I immediately wondered if that puts me into a bucket where she only views on future relationship of ours as a platonic friend, but it was nice to hear, as small of a carrot as it was.
I used to say the same thing to ex-GFs when I broke up with them. And I really meant it, they were all great people, things just didn't click. I am friends with none of them today.
The best I can say is that S+MC is another form of limbo, you don't know what's going to happen, treat it as such. Don't look to your W for signals. Seeking reassurance is a sign that you should work on detachment.
Yeah, you're definitely right about that. Trying hard not to beat myself up too much about it -- it's only been a month, these feelings come in waves and are normal. It feels like a vicious cycle: I get down, I lose some of the confidence that I built, I beat myself up over losing that confidence and missing WAW, and it loops around. Just have to tell myself: tomorrow might not be better, but a week might, a month definitely will, and so on.
It is what it is, I guess. There's no guarantees of anything, other than that life goes on. I have to thread the needle between maintaining hope/not giving up and detaching/becoming emotionally healthy. I'm sure there's a way to do both.
If there is a chance at reconciliation, it's out of my control and not on my timeline. I can't influence it, except in a profoundly negative way.
I've been following your updates. You realize there is a cycle here, and for you it will get easier every time.
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It'd be great to hear her say it and have that reassurance, but that's unlikely.
Actions speak louder than words my friend. I know how bad you want to hear those things and so many others...it'd be like an angel coming down to take the weight of the world off your shoulders. The only difference is the weight is only in your head.
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One thing that she did say in MC is that out of all the thoughts that make her sad, the one thing that really, really upsets her is the idea of us having no relationship at all, if I was just out of her life completely.
I notice that you didn't tell her that you aren't willing to be just friends with her. Does she already know this? At some point, she may need to hear it, or be reminded of it.
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We're doing it because we want to be a more attractive partner for our WAW, as opposed to doing it for ourselves, and it feels empty because we have no pathway to show that effort.
In time, with effort, you can make it what you want it to be.
Hope NYC is treating you well, best of luck Steve.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I notice that you didn't tell her that you aren't willing to be just friends with her. Does she already know this? At some point, she may need to hear it, or be reminded of it.
When we going through some rocky patches during our MR, I definitely mentioned to her that if we did end up splitting, from my perspective we'd likely never speak again. I said that not from a place of anger, but from a place of pragmatism: at that point, she would represent a very painful chapter of my life and a sad reminder of an assumed future lost.
Since the BD and S, we've seen each other a few times, including the helping-with-the-webpage that Steve85's 2x4ed me about. It's been very cordial and friendly; we fell into our usual rapport and it was pleasant despite the elephant in the background. But you are correct that right now I have a very hard time imagining a world where I could be emotionally comfortable with a platonic friendship. I don't know if really ever could, to be honest with you. I'm sure she knows this, but if you think it's worth reiterating, that'd be good to know. I guess by making it clear, it would take an option off the table: the easy option to get the best of both worlds, to keep my friendship and the years together, without the romantic component.
My ambivalence here comes from talking to a close friend who went through a similar situation and ended up reconciling with his WAW by resetting things, being her close friend, and then courting her and demonstrating that while he would OK without her, he was choosing to extend his hand to try again. That feels in opposition to some of the lessons I'm learning from veterans here. Is it just a function of when my friend hit the reset button and decided that he'd start again just as a friend, he had detached and thus had no ulterior motive to wanting to be her friend? In talking to him about it, he didn't really strike me as being detached from her. Or did he simply beat the odds?
