Ovrrnbw just expressed everything i wanted to write but didnt want to offend. Lose the horse and stop her coming over unless to drop the children off.. I'm sure it will help you massivly !
Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..
Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
I agree with everything Ovr wrote to you. He gave you great advice. You know what's great about this forum, it's that people give their time and advice for free. His advice is worth more than what any person you can pay, can give you. After I got DBed I went crazy, charging my credit cards looking for answers, talking to this expert and that expert, and all along, my best advice, came from Sandi, AS, other experts and fellow DBers here.
I skimmed through your sitch, and I don't have to read it all, because your WW needs the same actions as any other, tough love.
You should read "Love must be tough", by James Dobson. The best chance you have of getting your W back now, is completely letting her go an moving forward with your life. Not moving "on" but forward.
It's we are telling you that's not going to be painful. But every person on here is trying to do is help you prepare for pain, but you start this journey of letting go and moving forward. We are giving you a baseline which in turn helps you deal with the pain more efficiently. There is no way around this process and your WW is use to you allowing her to do things that she want to do, when you stop expect her to get angry, mad, threaten you, make declarations.
Maybe this will help, I reshifted/refocused my priorities, mines was:
1. Wife 2. Kids 3. Me 4. Everybody else
During DB:
1. Kids 2. Me 3. GAL 4. Me 5. Me 6. Me
My WW became my last priority. I didn't tell her she was, I showed her through my actions. I wasn't mean, nasty, but I never went out of my way to do things for her and if she asked me for something, I would do it in a respectable time and way.
Your know your WW is cheating, you thinking espousing them is about them. You don't have to make a grand ole announcement to inform your WW of her actions. You can sit her down, just you two let her know what evidence you have. You can also state your boundaries and what you want in a M. After that you move forward, you don't say it again.
You are trying to hard to control your WW actions, stop it, stop it.
In reading your 8 goals, you put way too much pressure and expectations on yourself. You are right, they are very lofty and you are right you should "think small".
They are way to ambitious. Look, you can't rush this. The first thing you want is respect from your WW. Sex, attention, conversation, save that for recon and eventual M.
Goals
1. Inform her of your boundaries (know your boundaries and the consequences first) 2. Respect yourself, by not allowing her to disrespect you, inturn gaining her respect 3. Love tough (not mean, nasty, or hurtful) 4. Look out for signs of her shifting her actions (coming out the fog) Note them when you see them
Examples, I wrote down( yours will be different). My W texting me asking for help, my W texting me to tell me random things about her day. My wife touching me in any way. My wife, asking me about my day. My wife asking me what I want for dinner, her asking to watch a show together. Her changing her language, from I'm done to, I'm not sure what I want. Her saying "her future", to "our future" or using the word "we".
Her doing just one or two of those most likely not her changing her direction towards me again, but her doing multiple of those things, consistently, shows a change. Look out for your W changing direction, by you changing direction.
You got this Curt..
Onward and forward
Your old W is gone, she is become a new person, are you prepared for her? IMO, you are not, because you aren't woro on yourself worrying about her so much.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
I agree with everything Ovr wrote to you. He gave you great advice. You know what's great about this forum, it's that people give their time and advice for free. His advice is worth more than what any person you can pay, can give you. After I got DBed I went crazy, charging my credit cards looking for answers, talking to this expert and that expert, and all along, my best advice, came from Sandi, AS, other experts and fellow DBers here.
I skimmed through your sitch, and I don't have to read it all, because your WW needs the same actions as any other, tough love.
You should read "Love must be tough", by James Dobson. The best chance you have of getting your W back now, is completely letting her go an moving forward with your life. Not moving "on" but forward.
JoeJoe, I agree that advice from Over and the other experts is $$$. Finding the courage to follow it can be a challenge at times because it is counter-intuitive. It is sinking in, but I’ve certainly slipped up along the way.
I’ve also read Dobson’s book and it gave me a good understanding and confidence to apply Tough Love.
Originally Posted by joejoe1
Goals
1. Inform her of your boundaries (know your boundaries and the consequences first) 2. Respect yourself, by not allowing her to disrespect you, inturn gaining her respect 3. Love tough (not mean, nasty, or hurtful) 4. Look out for signs of her shifting her actions (coming out the fog) Note them when you see them
Examples, I wrote down (yours will be different). My W texting me asking for help, my W texting me to tell me random things about her day. My wife touching me in any way. My wife, asking me about my day. My wife asking me what I want for dinner, her asking to watch a show together. Her changing her language, from I'm done to, I'm not sure what I want. Her saying "her future", to "our future" or using the word "we".
Her doing just one or two of those most likely not her changing her direction towards me again, but her doing multiple of those things, consistently, shows a change. Look out for your W changing direction, by you changing direction.
Those examples are perfect and are what I want. I would be ecstatic with her starting to do a few of those.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
Greetings, this post lays out the potential plan and options I’m considering to follow in the coming weeks and months. This is the culmination of my research reading relationship and self-help books, listening to podcasts, watching videos on cheating, following advice from vets on my thread and others, and scouring countless sitches here to find what works and doesn’t work.
I have given a lot of thought on whether to stay or go due to the Infidelity and chose to stay for a period of time. I accept that BD and the A’s mean the end of my first MR, but I still would like to start a new MR with my W. I have chosen to love and forgive. I have recovered, worked on myself, and am ready to extend this choice to her.
I have listed these in the sequence I would intend to follow and the likelihood that WW would go ballistic by me taking these steps.
1. Ask W to attend RetroV
Simple question to WW, without much pressure. Gives her the opportunity to look at the program info and decide if our 18 year R is worth 1 weekend of participating. The hope is she would attend, listen to the presenting couples, really start to communicate with me, and have a life changing experience to realize that our MR isn’t that bad and can get better. I know that many don’t recommend RetroV until the WAS has expressed interest in R, however, I don’t see much harm in asking if she’s willing to attend. My expectation is low that she would agree to go.
2. Ask W to attend MC
Honestly, I’m not a fan of this option based on her mindset and active A’s. Even if she agreed to go, I don’t know that I could actually find a pro-MR C that would be able to get her to look at us from a different perspective. I have much higher hopes with RetroV based on the format and environment. I would probably skip over this one in the short-term.
3. Ask Sandi2 to talk sense into WW
Mildly joking...but seriously Sandi, I would pay for your flight to Florida and I have a nice guest room in a pool home. How does that sound?
4. Continue giving W time and space
I’m really at the point where I’m over this. Patience is hard, especially when you know the betrayal and lies continue. First known PA was over 7 months ago and she’s had multiple APs, I’m not a martyr to wait forever for her to come out of the fog / valley on her own without action.
5. Confront WW on what I want, reinforce boundary, give her the choice, and move forward.
This is the option that I have researched the most and is coupled with letting her go and tough love. I have read dozens of sitches that addressed confrontation followed by a hard stance of enforcing boundaries with consequences, going dim/dark, moving forward, and/or filing for D. Obviously, each sitch is somewhat unique and this approach has varying levels of success. Timing is critical.
I’ve read many posts from PuppyDogTails, RobX, Sandi2, R2C, AS, Steve85, LH19, TxHubby, Joejoe1, Coach, Greek, Wonka, TimeHeals, FightingFit, GH31, Rockedworld, Theoden, SmileysPerson, Zues126, CDBear, Pinhead, etc. containing scripts and outcomes on confrontation. I highly recommend newcomers read sitches of the DBers listed above when considering whether to apply Tough Love.
I’m still working on scripts and the strength of the statements to make. I have a few different versions that I’m refining. The basic message is to say that waiting for her to makeup her mind is no longer working for me. As long as she’s disrespecting me, our MR, and our family by having a relationship with someone else, that she cannot have a relationship with me. If she continues to contact OM, I will consider all of my options, including D. I tell her that I’m moving forward with my life, then go dim/dark, stop feeding cake (try to get the horse off my property), and only communicate logistics regarding kids.
The goal here is to regain some respect, open the cage door, and let her go to maybe hit rock bottom.
6. File for D w/out notice
Self explanatory. My beliefs and morals have been compromised far too long as it is. Start moving down the path to restore a life that aligns with my moral compass.
7. Let her know we won’t be friends
This option follows one of PuppyDogTails confrontations with his WW. Here is the script: ”I should be clear with you about something. I have absolutely no intention of remaining 'best friends' with you if you choose to end our marriage this way -- by having an affair, running away, and lying to your parents and our children about it. We'll be civil, and we'll co-parent effectively, I'm sure, but we won't be friends. If you decide to end your affair now, however, and come back and work on this with me, going to marriage counseling, each of us addressing our issues, and it doesn't work out -- say after a year -- and we choose to divorce, then yes, I could see a time where eventually we could become good friends again, even though it won't be the same. But not what you're doing now, I'm sorry. This is NOT how friends treat each other, and I respect myself too much to put up with a so-called 'friend' who would do that to me."
I share Puppy’s sentiments regarding how my WW chose to BD, lie, cheat, and separate without ever giving me a chance. If my sitch continues down this path, I have no problem delivering this message.
8. Send group text to APs
Tell the multiple OM to stay away from my W and stop destroying a young family or possibly better yet let them know about her lies with multiple partners and let them battle it out. Unlikely that I would take this step, but rather take the high road as opposed to these predators.
9. Expose the A’s to her family and friends
AllenA was a staunch supporter of exposing the A to everyone. Puppy is another that applied this approach.
Here are some excerpts from AllenA’s posts:
“Publicly expose her choosing an affair over her family and her home... make sure all her friends and family KNOW and that they also know you want to save your marriage. Educate them that you want to save your marriage and that you have invited your wife to work on the marriage and she is choosing to pursue her affair instead. SAY it like that. You putting all that pressure on her is what forces her to make a real tough choice...This is the best way to end this for you... Cut her OFF at the knees and see if she comes to her senses...Not all do, but its the best chance you have...Choosing a. Marriage b. infidelity. These are the choices...”
“It’s also your job to protect your wife from the "grass is greener mentality" and momentary infatuations - these aren't MEN she's cheating with, they are PREDATORS.. they are exploiting her emotional vulnerability, it is your responsibility to protect her from THEM. Pursue no, PROTEST and EXPOSE -- YES. Educate your wife, get her into family therapy and teach her what marriage means in relation to an affair... and the dangers of infatuations and fantasy... she will just get used and hurt in the long run... my wife got used bigtime.”
AS and others currently posting regularly don’t seem to be either: “I think most LBS's are hoping it moves them from Plan B status to Plan A, but it never, ever does. It just creates a lot of resentment in the WAS, and usually the A will continue but go even deeper undercover (their attitude usually becomes "it's us against the world"). The thing is, she's separated and most WAS's don't consider it an "affair" after separation, to them they're just moving on to a new R. They think they're only "married" in the sense that some pesky piece of paper filed somewhere says so. I know you don't agree with that but that's her point of view right now.”
Highly unlikely that I would take this step as it doesn’t seem to leave the road home paved and smooth. I just view this approach as causing far too much damage that kills any will to return. Not going to spend many calories on this option.
Ok community, that’s all I have right now. Feel free to weigh in with your comments, feedback, recommendations, 2x4’s, etc. I do appreciate everyone taking the time to read my sitch and contribute. It has helped me immensely in taking positive steps emotionally and with my life in general since BD.
Last edited by curtis7; 07/02/1907:36 PM.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
Hi Curtis, re: Approach 9, if I read your story correctly, she announced the marriage was over before there were any sex with OM. When I left my ex-wife, filed D papers, and separated--I also viewed new partners as new relationships. I don't know that I would've been greatly embarrassed by such an e-mail. I'd simply tell them know I'd already separated.. and I couldn't confirm or deny if I was getting new partners 10years younger. If she or her parents are very established in a church, perhaps that's different.
That is the best post I have read on these forums. You sound like you have done your homework. You understand many of your best options. You may understand the pro's and con's of each.
When you decide what you want to do, make your choice and live with the consequences of that choice. Just understand that timing is important for any of the choices. Some of them might be too late, others too early. Only you can truly determine this.
I wish you well.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Curtis, I've been to Retrou and one requirement they have is that both of you have to be willing to work on the M and there cannot be an OP in the picture. They will call each of you in advance and specifically ask you A) are you at least willing to consider reconciling, and B) can you assure us there is no 3rd party- boyfriend/ girlfriend/ romantic interest. If the answer to either (not both) of those is no, then you will not be allowed in. I would say there's no way your W is replying yes to both of those so that option is a no-go.
Option 2, with where she is right now, even if she agrees to go it will be to justify her actions. She won't go with the intent of working on the M and they won't be able to make her.
Option 3, if anyone could talk sense into her it would be Sandi, but unfortunately there is no talking sense into her right now.
Option 4 YES
Option 5 I absolutely support this, but you have GOT to be willing to enforce your boundaries even if that means filing for D. If you state boundaries and she poops on them and you do nothing then you're in a far worse position than if you had just remained silent. MAKE SURE you are ready to proceed with your ramifications before doing this.
Option 6 I would say it's way too soon for that.
Option 7 yes absolutely, should be a part of 5.
Options 8 and 9 you already know what I'm going to say since you posted my quote, I'm impressed you had that at your fingertips by the way
Originally Posted by LH19
If you choose 1 or 2 please put a jock strap on first.
If she or her parents are very established in a church, perhaps that's different.
