Spiraling into the Upside Down #2

[unchien]

Ok guys I need help. W had asked for this safety plan before I watch the kids next week, which is also before our next MC appointment: I had initially agreed to give it in MC, then she asked if I would have it before I watched the kids and I had said okay.

It was a huge mistake. No 2x4 or 4x4 necessary.

So now if she asks before I watch the kids what can I say:

W: you will have that safety plan for me before I drop off the kids right?

Options:

- I thought we were going to discuss in MC.
- no I will not have it. I don’t agree with the implication that I am unsafe or unfit as a parent. If you want to work together on a parenting plan for both of us I am happy to do that.
- others?

And if she goes ballistic:

- I’m sorry you feel that way
- ???

And if she says she won’t let me see the kids before MC?

- I think that is unfair and unwarranted.
- ???

Sorry I do really well with scripts.

[LH19]

I like option 2

Then ask her to calm down or the conversation is over.

Validate

If she refuses tell her you will be contacting your lawyer.

Strength U. No backing down to her bs lies and her trying to keep you from seeing your kids.

[LB55]

- I thought we were going to discuss in MC.

You didn't really think that, so that is a borderline lie. yes you were going to discuss it there, but you also agreed that you would provide something prior to seeing the kids. Don't go with that.

You said you would have a plan. Come in with a plan. No parameters were given to you correct? She is expecting nothing other than a fight out of you. Give her something different. Make it something simple that any parent would do for their kids to keep them safe anyway.

I think this could be an opportunity to build just a bit of trust by doing what you agreed to, even if your hindsight said it was a bad idea.

Ultimately you've got to do what you think is best for U. See what I did there? :-)

[LB55]

Brush up on your validation skills, they will be invaluable here.

[unchien]

Brush up on your validation skills, they will be invaluable here.

LB - she asked for 3 things I could do to calm down if I felt overwhelmed.

L told me this is a bad idea. Writing anything down like this is an implicit agreement that I am unsafe in some way. The L suggested I also write or state that the letters were written intending to help make my W feel better given I thought she was leaving. I might leave that one aside for now.

[LB55]

Ok, I am not going to go against your lawyer. Writing stuff down is a poor choice, at least at this juncture.

Does she require it in writing? If not, just tell her you verbally that you plan to breathe deep, listen to what they are saying, and have fun.

I don't know the dynamic, in my situation seeing the actions and getting reports back from the kids that things went well has quelled the concern.

I don't think that coming in hot and threatening to go to a L is going to get you very far. It didn't with my situation. You might have to go that way, I don't know. I never provided a plan to her, just to be clear.

We started small, a few hours on one Saturday, then the whole day, then overnight, etc.

She is scared; rational or not, that is where she is. She needs reassurance and for you to validate that she is scared. Don't tell her she is scared, but that is how she feels right now. She has to protect the kids for whatever reason her crazy brain has thought up.

[unchien]

LB55 - I like your approach here. Are you willing to share why your W was needing reassurance?

[LB55]

LB55 - I like your approach here. Are you willing to share why your W was needing reassurance?

There was a time in my life where I would have just ignored or ghosted this question because I was ashamed.

Basically her stance was that I “vibrated with rage” all the time, her and the kids were scared of me, everyone was always walking on eggshells. I raised my voice when they misbehaved. I spanked them once or twice in 11 years(she spanked them more than I did for perspective). I have a big voice for an average sized guy. Then she BD me, and I started digging into all the accusations of narcissism and personality disorders, and pretty much everyone can identify with some symptoms of mental disorders. So i write this big letter(sound familiar??) that basically said I admit to not being the best father, being gone all the time for the military, checking out mentally when I was home, relaxing with alcohol, stating I might have a personality disorder, and etc. All this crap I didn’t really agree with but I thought opening up to her would help. She turned it into her lawyer and they filed a nuclear war divorce case against me.

I had to under go psychiatric evals, stand in court and not mutter a word in my own defense, and listen while she told the court that I should never see my kids again without supervision for the rest of their life. The judge saw through it but ordered me to get the evals done for psych and alcohol. Neither resulted in anything backing up her statements. So the court covered their butt.

Bottom line we were able to come to some agreements on time with the kids without the court ordering it. I see the kids every other weekend and one weeknight each week. We are able to negotiate that night to fit our schedules. It’s an ok arrangement for now. My work schedule doesn’t support a 50/50 arrangement right now. I will push for that if this divorce continues because it’s important going forward plus the kids asked me for that this past weekend.

So she was super scared because of all this crap her friend is feeding her(miserable D mom). I know this because there was a book at home the last time I was there about how to divorce a narcissist with alcohol problems that had her friends amazon receipt in it for a couple years prior. Her friends exH has come to the house and pulled out trees in anger with his truck and done all kinds of crazy stuff. So she convinced my W that I would be the same way. Then I played right into the hand with that stupid letter I wrote and she got really scared and popped the D with restraints.

It’s funny that I tell the same thing to the guys at work that I confide in and they both tell me I’m the calmest guy they know in Their lives.

In the end; I certainly had/have issues to work on. They aren’t the issues presented, but those are her feelings. I stunk at communication, listening, validating, not solving her problems for her, having boundaries, etc. Basically all the NGS stuff that gets thrown around here. We’ve been on much better terms since I had an hour long validation and listening ‘talk’ in the driveway a month ago or so. She said she liked the ‘listening’ talk so that was affirmation that I am improving my skills. She was definitely surprised by how I handled myself. She expected a fight and got validated to death instead. I could see the curiosity running wild in her mind. She said if she had known what I meant when I said ‘I’m just here to listen’ she would had more to say. She was t ready with all her thoughts together. So I merely said let me know when you are ready to continue. Hasnt happened yet. Not going to push it either. It will happen in time.

We haven’t communicated too much lately, just giving her space to be her. She told me the other day that it’s nice to not be butting heads as much and to really be on the same page with me and I agreed. I really think she is observing the what’s going on with me and starting to question the info she is being fed. I’m not hearing nearly as much about her new friends from my kids anymore. I think she might be distancing from them a bit to evaluate. Hard to say. Her pride may not let her yield, we will see.

26 miles of this marathon left.

I hope that helps give you some perspective on this. Breathe, becalm, listen to her concerns and then validate her feelings. Google non-defensive listening by Gottman. It’s just an internet article but it really helped me understand how to do it.

[unchien]

LB55 - it’s gonna take me awhile to respond to this thoughtfully but I just wanted to say thank you. I know it takes courage to share this with strangers online.

[LB55]

LB55 - it’s gonna take me awhile to respond to this thoughtfully but I just wanted to say thank you. I know it takes courage to share this with strangers online.

You are welcome. I hope it helps you in some way. Maybe someone else too.

One of my personal goals is to be more open and not tell the half truths that nice guys tend to do. So sharing is something that helps me open up and be full honest instead of 85%honest. I do this in my daily life now too; it’s not just an online thing. 3 guys that aren’t family know my whole story. It helps to get it out. So thanks for asking!